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jsthomp2007

Training Camp Notes & Observations

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8 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Coach Scangarello singled out Elijah Wilkinson for praise after practice yesterday. I actually liked him in limited time when he was at RG last year but I believe he's been practising at LT with our 2nd team (feel free to correct me on this).

If that is the case, how long is Bolles' leash going to be? 

I've read the same. That'd be great to have some OT depth for a change. It'd be interesting if Wilkinsons doing any work at RG.

I've also heard that on a daily basis the best battle in camp is between Bolles and Chubb. Sounds like a war with each side winning a few but pretty balanced overall. This should be Bolles 1st pro bowl year IMO.

IOL names to keep an eye on are Barkley ,Brendel and Jones. 

 

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3 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I've read the same. That'd be great to have some OT depth for a change. It'd be interesting if Wilkinsons doing any work at RG.

I've also heard that on a daily basis the best battle in camp is between Bolles and Chubb. Sounds like a war with each side winning a few but pretty balanced overall. This should be Bolles 1st pro bowl year IMO.

IOL names to keep an eye on are Barkley ,Brendel and Jones. 

 

Hmm. I'd really pump the breaks on Bolles. Pete Prisco was saying Chubb roasted him last week and he reckons that he's at 290lbs ...

Honestly, I think Bolles is closer to a benching than a Pro Bowl.

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8 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Hmm. I'd really pump the breaks on Bolles. Pete Prisco was saying Chubb roasted him last week and he reckons that he's at 290lbs ...

Honestly, I think Bolles is closer to a benching than a Pro Bowl.

Too late for that. Since the day he was drafted I've been saying he'd reach the pro bowl in his 3rd season. I think he will.

I must have missed Prisco's comments, even though I read his TC review. What I did get out of that is he's really high, I mean way high on Chubb.

So, Bolles is going daily against a guy that Prisco thinks he's the next Mack yet he's only been mentioned once or twice in TC, unlike Von who's getting rave reviews almost daily. Seems if Chubb was whipping Bolles that bad we wouldn't hear the end of it. Also, I've heard twice now that the daily battles between Chubb and Bolles are awesome.Basically, they're each giving the other all they can handle.

Being the optimist that I always am during TC I prefer to think that they've both taken it up a notch from last season.

We should definitely get a better idea after the HOF game.

I really wish we had a guy from the forum watch a practice and report back.

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6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Too late for that. Since the day he was drafted I've been saying he'd reach the pro bowl in his 3rd season. I think he will.

I must have missed Prisco's comments, even though I read his TC review. What I did get out of that is he's really high, I mean way high on Chubb.

So, Bolles is going daily against a guy that Prisco thinks he's the next Mack yet he's only been mentioned once or twice in TC, unlike Von who's getting rave reviews almost daily. Seems if Chubb was whipping Bolles that bad we wouldn't hear the end of it. Also, I've heard twice now that the daily battles between Chubb and Bolles are awesome.Basically, they're each giving the other all they can handle.

Being the optimist that I always am during TC I prefer to think that they've both taken it up a notch from last season.

We should definitely get a better idea after the HOF game.

I really wish we had a guy from the forum watch a practice and report back.

I am optimistic on Bolles too, but Pro Bowl voting is whack - I feel like non-skill position players just get in based on reputation alone, so it might take two great seasons from Bolles to reach it.

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I heard Schlereth on First Take that Bolles doesn't have it between the ears.  He said he is a tremendous athlete but won't be in the long, because his head is all wrong.  From Schlereth to say that I am skeptical of Bolles at LT unless Munchack can work miracles. 

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There were some early questions on Fant giving it his all in his routes, rounding them and quitting early on them. I hope individuals realize that Tight Ends don’t typically make an impact right away and give Fant a chance before throwing the book at him.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Counselor said:

There were some early questions on Fant giving it his all in his routes, rounding them and quitting early on them. I hope individuals realize that Tight Ends don’t typically make an impact right away and give Fant a chance before throwing the book at him.

If he was a 2nd/3rd round pick, I suspect no one would give him a hard time for the normal rookie year learning curve.  Being a 1st rounder, the expectations are just so high.  And yes, they're unrealistic.  Evan Engram is the only rookie to go over 700 yards in his rookie year since the 2000's started.  Only 1 other player put up 600+ yards.   The TE position is just that hard to learn both in terms of assignment complexity for blocking assignments and option routes.   And that's before you get to the speed-adjustment to the game, and the 16-game grind for the rookie wall.

Fant & Hockenson benefit from being in the Iowa system, which makes them as pro-ready scheme-wise as any system in the NCAA.  But it's still a big jump, and the game speed adjustment is monumental.   People who predict even a 600+ yard season are predicting historic-level production.   Given that, the temptation to write Fant off early is truly premature.  No rookie is a surefire thing, but with TE it's almost a given you need to incubate them for 1, even 2 years, before you see difference-making ability.  It's also what makes taking a TE Rd1 iffy.  I think OJ Howard and Njoku will pay those picks off, but it's a much riskier investment than the Rd2-3 prices you see paid on the Kelce/Ertz/Kittles of the world.  

Edited by Broncofan

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9 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

If he was a 2nd/3rd round pick, I suspect no one would give him a hard time for the normal rookie year learning curve.  Being a 1st rounder, the expectations are just so high.  And yes, they're unrealistic.  Evan Engram is the only rookie to go over 700 yards in his rookie year since the 2000's started.  Only 1 other player put up 600+ yards.   The TE position is just that hard to learn both in terms of assignment complexity for blocking assignments and option routes.   And that's before you get to the speed-adjustment to the game, and the 16-game grind for the rookie wall.

Fant & Hockenson benefit from being in the Iowa system, which makes them as pro-ready scheme-wise as any system in the NCAA.  But it's still a big jump, and the game speed adjustment is monumental.   People who predict even a 600+ yard season are predicting historic-level production.   Given that, the temptation to write Fant off early is truly premature.  No rookie is a surefire thing, but with TE it's almost a given you need to incubate them for 1, even 2 years, before you see difference-making ability.  It's also what makes taking a TE Rd1 iffy.  I think OJ Howard and Njoku will pay those picks off, but it's a much riskier investment than the Rd2-3 prices you see paid on the Kelce/Ertz/Kittles of the world.  

And that Kittle price was a 5th round one pick after we took Butt... I bring this up a lot but I wanted Kittle so bad I have to every chance I get. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Counselor said:

And that Kittle price was a 5th round one pick after we took Butt... I bring this up a lot but I wanted Kittle so bad I have to every chance I get. 

Yeah Kittle would have been the other guy who was falling, oh well.  I mean, let's face it, no one knew Kittle was THAT good, no way he falls past Rd3 if ppl thought even 80-90 percent of what he's done so far was the ceiling.     As a great example....Kittle didn't even crack 600 yards year 1.  Then again, he didn't face our ILB's, either.  O.o

Correction - was 515, not 385, that was Tony G.

Edited by Broncofan

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8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

If he was a 2nd/3rd round pick, I suspect no one would give him a hard time for the normal rookie year learning curve.  Being a 1st rounder, the expectations are just so high.  And yes, they're unrealistic.  Evan Engram is the only rookie to go over 700 yards in his rookie year since the 2000's started.  Only 1 other player put up 600+ yards.   The TE position is just that hard to learn both in terms of assignment complexity for blocking assignments and option routes.   And that's before you get to the speed-adjustment to the game, and the 16-game grind for the rookie wall.

Fant & Hockenson benefit from being in the Iowa system, which makes them as pro-ready scheme-wise as any system in the NCAA.  But it's still a big jump, and the game speed adjustment is monumental.   People who predict even a 600+ yard season are predicting historic-level production.   Given that, the temptation to write Fant off early is truly premature.  No rookie is a surefire thing, but with TE it's almost a given you need to incubate them for 1, even 2 years, before you see difference-making ability.  It's also what makes taking a TE Rd1 iffy.  I think OJ Howard and Njoku will pay those picks off, but it's a much riskier investment than the Rd2-3 prices you see paid on the Kelce/Ertz/Kittles of the world.  

I want to know why his snaps decreased at Iowa this year. His family was even ranting on twitter about it. Is it character concerns did he not buy in to the scheme? Is he not a team player? 

The top 5 to 10 talents in the draft that drop to late first always scare me. I think Robert Nkemdiche.

Noah is a huge mismatch I'd like him to be on the field a lot. Doesn't have to dominate  statistically i just think his natural ability will open up opportunities for other players on offense even if he's just a decoy.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I want to know why his snaps decreased at Iowa this year. His family was even ranting on twitter about it. Is it character concerns did he not buy in to the scheme? Is he not a team player? 

The top 5 to 10 talents in the draft that drop to late first always scare me. I think Robert Nkemdiche.

Noah is a huge mismatch I'd like him to be on the field a lot. Doesn't have to dominate  statistically i just think his natural ability will open up opportunities for other players on offense even if he's just a decoy.

Given how much Elway's emphasized character, I'd be shocked if Fant's issues were at all character related.   I'm one that thinks character flags are often overblown, but also recognize we don't get the full picture like the orgs do.  In that vein, with Elway's concerted effort to factor both metrics and character (new school & old school) into the new 2018+ draft philosophy, it's hard to believe Fant had flags, it's not at all in keeping with Elway's 2018-19 draft MO.

Edited by Broncofan

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2 minutes ago, Counselor said:

The concerns are more work ethic related

Thats what I mean Robert Nkemdiche was a dlineman but his motor was too hot and cold. So he was top 10 talent in the 2016 draft that slips all the way to 29.

So is the discrepancy  in snaps between  Hockenson and fant just because of hockenson  being  the more complete te? Or do the snap discrepancies have to do with work ethic?

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Thats what I mean Robert Nkemdiche was a dlineman but his motor was too hot and cold. So he was top 10 talent in the 2016 draft that slips all the way to 29.

So is the discrepancy  in snaps between  Hockenson and fant just because of hockenson  being  the more complete te? Or do the snap discrepancies have to do with work ethic?

No one can know the full deal but talent wise Hock is a complete player.   He’s probably a top 5 blocker right now.   And he has the ability to win in space and inline.   

Fant is a pure move TE.   He could still become an effective blocker as a moving receiver but he doesn’t profile inline.   

That alone accounts for the gap between the 2.   The notion that Fant fell hard is somewhat revisionist - only truly special talents get Rd1 love and only elite generational TE labels get top 10 consideration.  Ebron was widely considered as a reach at 1.10.   Being taken 1.20 is quite a compliment to any TE. 

Rd1 TE’s are a risk.  No way around it given how much year 1 and even year 2 can underwhelm.   But I don’t really think Fant fell that hard.   The bigger issue was the gap after him was pretty wide (Irv Smith has nowhere the ceiling or big play ability yet went next at 2.50).  But any struggles Fant might be experiencing now shouldn’t raise flags.   It’s pretty par for the course.  

Edited by Broncofan

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