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Training Camp Notes & Observations


jsthomp2007

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Wonder where the Devontae Harris and Duke Dawson pick ups leave Bausby. He went pretty much unchallenged for the #4 corner spot all offseason. Early on at least I think Dawson is a guy that they care more about learning the system and developing his game than getting on the field. Harris is apparently a special teams standout, so he probably plays early. 

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2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

When Flacco played his best ball he had a good one in Jacoby Jones. A guy you have to flip the field is pretty valuable to winning close games Trindon Holiday another very good addition to our team when it was in Championship mode. 

I get the opposing alternative this guys 27 might not be in the long term plans. He might add 2 wins to the win total and hurt our longterm outlook draft wise if there isn't enough depth or talent.

The facts are finding a good returner has been "as challenging, " as replacing the qb position. 

 

He might be 27 but he’s cost controlled for 4 years.   Keep him on that rookie 4 year deal if he can be a ST threat and gadget 4th WR with speed and don’t get attached. My whole issue in 2017 was that we spent draft capital 2x and on day 2 for the same skill set that’s often cheaply found. 

As much as I have nothing but respect for the River Cracrafts of the world they don’t really help us move forward.   Hope he catches on somewhere I wish him well & good luck. Even if Spencer flames out, it’s a better shot to take given the potential for 4 cheap years and giving us a different dimension on O. 

Edited by Broncofan
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Like what I see from Spencer, looks like a big upgrade as a punt returner. Speed to burn plus the quickness to play the slot, important because as one of the 5 active WRs he'll have to be versatile enough to play every spot. Obviously not the NFL but he's played pro football at a high level for years already so he should be ready to walk in and make an immediate impact. 

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41 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Like what I see from Spencer, looks like a big upgrade as a punt returner. Speed to burn plus the quickness to play the slot, important because as one of the 5 active WRs he'll have to be versatile enough to play every spot. Obviously not the NFL but he's played pro football at a high level for years already so he should be ready to walk in and make an immediate impact. 

Gotta like the new scouts who have uncovered Spencer and Bausby from the CFL and AAF.

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Well we can put an end to the Jamal Carter hype era for DEN...

 

As much as he didn't work out, though - Elway's decision to part ways with TJ Ward was provent to be 100 percent correct, as Ward couldn't even stay on the field on a terrible TAM D, and hasn't been able to find work since.

Every one of Elway's decisions with high-profile vets starting to show signs of decline and in their 2nd/3rd contract has clearly shown themselves to be unsentimental, but correct (TJ Ward, Brandon Marshall, Darian Stewart, Aqib Talib).   Paradis & Barrett don't fall in that category because they went for the $ in FA, FWIW, so different situation (bidding against 31 other teams).

Elway's decision to cut bait with signed contract players who've been clearly declining but popular was a lightning rod with Ward & even Talib, but really it's proven to be going down the right path, and esp more so when you are rebuilding.  It doesn't mean Elway's been on the mark most times with his youth movement picks - but again, you don't have to be right even 1/2 of the time - hit on 1-2 picks each year like this, and you accelerate the team rebuild with cheap talent.  Taking more shots increases the chances we find cheap guys who can fill our roster.   It didn't work here, but I applaud the process thinking.  I honestly wish he'd do more of it until we are legit contenders - Khalfani Muhammad instead of Theo Riddick as 4th RB, or Malik Jefferson instead of Corey Nelson at ILB.   Now, it's not a deal-breaker, Elway's fixing a lot more of his 2014-17 draft problems, which is refreshing and way more important, but worth noting.

Anyways, back to Carter - wish him well.  Talented, but a victim of the increase in talent in our secondary, a sign that Elway's drafting / FA's (Bausby, etc.) is yielding more fruit. 

Edited by Broncofan
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2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Well we can put an end to the Jamal Carter hype era for DEN...

 

As much as he didn't work out, though - Elway's decision to part ways with TJ Ward was provent to be 100 percent correct, as Ward couldn't even stay on the field on a terrible TAM D, and hasn't been able to find work since.

Every one of Elway's decisions with high-profile vets starting to show signs of decline and in their 2nd/3rd contract has clearly shown themselves to be unsentimental, but correct (TJ Ward, Brandon Marshall, Darian Stewart, Aqib Talib).   Paradis & Barrett don't fall in that category because they went for the $ in FA, FWIW, so different situation (bidding against 31 other teams).

Elway's decision to cut bait with signed contract players who've been clearly declining but popular was a lightning rod with Ward & even Talib, but really it's proven to be going down the right path, and esp more so when you are rebuilding.  It doesn't mean Elway's been on the mark most times with his youth movement picks - but again, you don't have to be right even 1/2 of the time - hit on 1-2 picks each year like this, and you accelerate the team rebuild with cheap talent.  Taking more shots increases the chances we find cheap guys who can fill our roster.   It didn't work here, but I applaud the process thinking.  I honestly wish he'd do more of it until we are legit contenders - Khalfani Muhammad instead of Theo Riddick as 4th RB, or Malik Jefferson instead of Corey Nelson at ILB.   Now, it's not a deal-breaker, Elway's fixing a lot more of his 2014-17 draft problems, which is refreshing and way more important, but worth noting.

Anyways, back to Carter - wish him well.  Talented, but a victim of the increase in talent in our secondary, a sign that Elway's drafting / FA's (Bausby, etc.) is yielding more fruit. 

I wonder if that will carry over to Von? Under his present contract he'll count about $78 million against the cap in the next three years. Should be quite an interesting situation.

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7 players of our 53 weren't on the team on Friday morning. If you needed any further indication on the horrific level of depth this roster has shown over the preseason, you have it now.

Anyway, it's time for real football. Plus, I will be watching the first two games of the season in Bali :P

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5 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I wonder if that will carry over to Von? Under his present contract he'll count about $78 million against the cap in the next three years. Should be quite an interesting situation.

Von could go either way I don't see him finishing his career here if that what the assumption is. He like Chris Harris after this season is gonna want one more run at a ring. 

I hope if he does it he does it behind closed doors so the organization gets optimal value for his services. The way Tony Gonzalez did it.

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6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I wonder if that will carry over to Von? Under his present contract he'll count about $78 million against the cap in the next three years. Should be quite an interesting situation.

That’s not the number to use though - he counts 73 million from 2019-21 cap-wise because Elway made the awful choice to push 17M of Von’s 18.5M 2018 salary to a bonus (and this pushing almost 13M to future year’s cap hit wise, spread out over 2019-21) - so we could sign Clinton McDonald at 3M, Tramaine Brock 3M & trade for Jared Veldheer 7M.  

Von’s cap hit of 78M includes 6.8M of previous bonus $ and the new 13M of bonus $ in the restructure.   That’s money DEN can’t recover and the cap-foolish back loading that Elway always avoided - until 2018.  The number that matters is Von’s salary and roster bonus because that’s $ DEN can theoretically save.  But the 20M of that 78M is just the previous bonus money that’s long gone - just unpaid.  

Von’s 2020 salary is 17.5M (plus 500k roster bonus paid out at start of year so let’s call it 18M total).  That’s only 500k more than Aaron Donald, Demarcus Lawrence & Frank Clark.   In 2021 it’s 17.5M (plus 500k) and gets passed by Donald and Clark, and matches JJ Watt, with Demarcus Lawrence & Khalil Mack 500k behind (and their roster bonus isn’t counted while Von’s is) .    So the 2020-21 salary is very much on par with being an elite defender at the position, and not inflated.   Von is still very much that guy right now and so far shows no signs of decline. 

The issue with the other vets - they were being paid top 10 $ when their play no longer dictated it was even close, and had clear signs of decline.  As long as Von plays to his usual level it won’t even be a Q of keeping him under contract.   The specter of a trade to max out team return before the next contract would seem like the more likely Q.  I think that is a very real scenario, especially if our contention window isn’t open yet before 2021.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/base/defense/ (change year to 2020 & 2021 and you see the lists)

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/von-miller-7717/ (OTC better usually but not in showing the cap breakdowns for players).  

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As George eluded to, our depth is atrocious, as evidenced by the fact we needed the pluck 7 players from other teams after a full training camp. Yikes. I think the biggest cluster for me is the fact that we gave Kevin Hogan 2nd team reps even when Lock was healthy, and then proceeded to cut him and pick up Brandon Allen instead. I know Lock got hurt, but when he was healthy, he lost reps to Hogan for no real reason. Just some fairly bad roster mismanagement in that sense.

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4 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

As George eluded to, our depth is atrocious, as evidenced by the fact we needed the pluck 7 players from other teams after a full training camp. Yikes. I think the biggest cluster for me is the fact that we gave Kevin Hogan 2nd team reps even when Lock was healthy, and then proceeded to cut him and pick up Brandon Allen instead. I know Lock got hurt, but when he was healthy, he lost reps to Hogan for no real reason. Just some fairly bad roster mismanagement in that sense.

Elway’s mindset as a GM re: backup QB mirrors most of his peers in wanting an established vet.  Which is ludicrous given the talent gap that backup vets provide - we need a backup playing meaningful snaps we are done.   But that’s also Elway’s weakness in that he can’t commit to a rebuild completely - and to be fair the casual fan base would riot at the thought we are still rebuilding.   

Re: our roster turnover on cut day - it’s such an indictment of how bad Elway’s 2015-17 drafts were.  That’s what should have filled out the roster.  At least Elway seems to have learned his lesson. 

 

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1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

As George eluded to, our depth is atrocious, as evidenced by the fact we needed the pluck 7 players from other teams after a full training camp. Yikes. I think the biggest cluster for me is the fact that we gave Kevin Hogan 2nd team reps even when Lock was healthy, and then proceeded to cut him and pick up Brandon Allen instead. I know Lock got hurt, but when he was healthy, he lost reps to Hogan for no real reason. Just some fairly bad roster mismanagement in that sense.

Couldn’t agree more. It drives me crazy that NFL teams truly operate on a day to day basis rather than building for the future. I understand practice is much more essential than other sports and that coaches have so much influence on personnel decisions....but it’s literally so incompetent. 

But I am very happy to see Elway and the FO be aggressive and acknowledge that the roster has serious weaknesses. This weekend seemed full of strong moves to me. 

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