CW21's 2020 NFL Draft Thread (RB Watch List - Page 2)

[SBLIII]

On 13.8.2019 at 5:52 AM, CWood21 said:

RB watch list is up.  Anyone I should keep an eye on?

biased but hearing good things about a possible breakout season for Khalan Laborn.

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, badgers0821 said:

Just a few heads up statements as you go through your analysis.

Wisconsin is not a team that utilizes their back in the pass game often. MGIII, James White or Corey Clement didn’t come out of school with that I their repertoire and it was a huge knock on Gordon but he and the other two have made that a strength.

The “Wisconsin backs fail in the NFL” is such a tired narrative that isn’t even relevant anymore. The last three that have come out have all done well and carved out a significant role with their teams.

“Sure have the best center in the nation back which helps and some other promising tackles but not proven quite yet.“ LT Cole Van Lanen is more than promising he is 100% proven, he was one of the highest rated tackles in college football last year. He didn’t start because they wanted to get Dietzen some reps but he played the majority of games.

“He is a power back but when you can get a big time tough power back like Benny Snell who carried a program to new heights in the 4th round”  You know Taylor is more of a speed back than a power back right? 

It also sounds like you said Elliot, Barkley, and Gurley did everything on their own and had terrible OL, do you actually believe that?

I definitely appreciate the effort but this was a pretty brutal read with a lot of inaccuracies and statements that really don’t hold any water if the review and analysis had been done, but again I appreciate the effort and thanks for taking the time to put in your two cents.

 

Good for Clement and Gordon making it a strength but White especially showed movement skills and versatility in college, heck he was a damn good pass catcher I thought especially as a senior.  And White wins because he is good in a phone booth.

 

In a phone booth Taylor is not a problem, he cannot make you miss like Swift, Najee Harris, Etienne, and Benjamin etc.  They are all better making a guy miss in the open field and have arguably just as much speed.  No way Jonathan Taylor has more big play ability than Melvin Gordon, I think Gordon is a little faster in pads and a little more slipper in the open field in college especially that senior year.  Taylor needs room and will be curious what is he like without as much potentially this year.

 

I hear the Van Lanen is god talk a lot, will see just how good he is this year.  I do not go off ratings from PFF honestly, and it is easy to have a good pass pro rating when you do not pass often so there is not as many chances to fail and get a 'low grade'.  They were 117th in passing attempts out of 130 teams in the nation, yeah they might have skewed pass pro stats compared to the guys that protected 500+ attempts compared to their 304 attempts.

 

Taylor would be a great fit in Dallas with that offensive line but not sure they are going that way as a system much longer and want to open it up more.  But clearly if they sign Elliott that is out of the question 100%.  Seattle maybe they pound the rock but doubt they would spend a high pick on a back when they already got a number of them and some are young guys they spent high picks on.  Bills also could fit but not sure they want it with McCoy around.  Ravens would be a fit but again I think they might be ok at RB especially with Ingram there.  Could see the Titans being a decent fit in terms of scheme but doubt they want to get rid of Henry.  Colts are another that would be a decent fit but again not sure they need him honestly.  Bears maybe but again if one can get David Montgomery in the 3rd round, a back who can pass protect, really good catching out of the backfield, physical in the middle and awesome in a phone both making you miss, yeah take him.  

 

AJ Dillon will have the same problem and more so than Taylor because he is not as fast.  And Dillon has a much worse offensive line potentially especially this up coming year and much less talent around him, he might have a hard time come draft time compared to the guys who are great in space.  Taylor is fast sure but I would not call him a speed back like he is Chris Johnson or something, he needs space and great blocking, without it he would look totally different.  Again breaking tackles he does not do a ton of either, wish he did show a little more power than he has also.  

 

Saquan Barkley is far superior to Jonathan Taylor because he is quicker in space, can change direction better, is a better overall athlete, has way more leg power and explosiveness.  Is faster a better blocker and far superior pass catcher.  If Taylor falls that is why, because he does not have what Saquan has.   Also Elliott, Barkley and Gurley had no where near the offensive line Taylor has had the past two seasons in terms of pure run blockers, it is not even a conversation I feel.  

 

Will see what CWood21 says about it all but I assume it will be quite similar.

[badgers0821]

8 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Good for Clement and Gordon making it a strength but White especially showed movement skills and versatility in college, heck he was a damn good pass catcher I thought especially as a senior.  And White wins because he is good in a phone booth.

 

In a phone booth Taylor is not a problem, he cannot make you miss like Swift, Najee Harris, Etienne, and Benjamin etc.  They are all better making a guy miss in the open field and have arguably just as much speed.  No way Jonathan Taylor has more big play ability than Melvin Gordon, I think Gordon is a little faster in pads and a little more slipper in the open field in college especially that senior year.  Taylor needs room and will be curious what is he like without as much potentially this year.

 

I hear the Van Lanen is god talk a lot, will see just how good he is this year.  I do not go off ratings from PFF honestly, and it is easy to have a good pass pro rating when you do not pass often so there is not as many chances to fail and get a 'low grade'.  They were 117th in passing attempts out of 130 teams in the nation, yeah they might have skewed pass pro stats compared to the guys that protected 500+ attempts compared to their 304 attempts.

 

Taylor would be a great fit in Dallas with that offensive line but not sure they are going that way as a system much longer and want to open it up more.  But clearly if they sign Elliott that is out of the question 100%.  Seattle maybe they pound the rock but doubt they would spend a high pick on a back when they already got a number of them and some are young guys they spent high picks on.  Bills also could fit but not sure they want it with McCoy around.  Ravens would be a fit but again I think they might be ok at RB especially with Ingram there.  Could see the Titans being a decent fit in terms of scheme but doubt they want to get rid of Henry.  Colts are another that would be a decent fit but again not sure they need him honestly.  Bears maybe but again if one can get David Montgomery in the 3rd round, a back who can pass protect, really good catching out of the backfield, physical in the middle and awesome in a phone both making you miss, yeah take him.  

 

AJ Dillon will have the same problem and more so than Taylor because he is not as fast.  And Dillon has a much worse offensive line potentially especially this up coming year and much less talent around him, he might have a hard time come draft time compared to the guys who are great in space.  Taylor is fast sure but I would not call him a speed back like he is Chris Johnson or something, he needs space and great blocking, without it he would look totally different.  Again breaking tackles he does not do a ton of either, wish he did show a little more power than he has also.  

 

Saquan Barkley is far superior to Jonathan Taylor because he is quicker in space, can change direction better, is a better overall athlete, has way more leg power and explosiveness.  Is faster a better blocker and far superior pass catcher.  If Taylor falls that is why, because he does not have what Saquan has.   Also Elliott, Barkley and Gurley had no where near the offensive line Taylor has had the past two seasons in terms of pure run blockers, it is not even a conversation I feel.  

 

Will see what CWood21 says about it all but I assume it will be quite similar.

I gotta be honest, I stopped reading after that first paragraph. Again, appreciate the “analysis” but again lacking substance and any real analysis that you can’t pick up off ESPN.

P.S. I never said Taylor was better than Barkley but thanks for bringing up completely irrelevant arguments.

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, badgers0821 said:

I gotta be honest, I stopped reading after that first paragraph. Again, appreciate the “analysis” but again lacking substance and any real analysis that you can’t pick up off ESPN.

P.S. I never said Taylor was better than Barkley but thanks for bringing up completely irrelevant arguments.

Well have fun reading what CWood21 will say, when it will be pretty close to what I just said.  And who reads ESPN for football analysis?  But yes I did look at ESPN stats to see how little the Badgers passed the ball last year and how little Van Lanen was actually in pass protection situations.  So again makes him look like a much better pass protector possibly, but will watch him for sure this season and see how he is.  

Anything that is not in wild support of Wisconsin and or the prospects on the team, you will disagree with and have issue with.  That seems to be the only time you comment is if there is something you read someone else puts up in any way negative about a Wisconsin player, especially if it is one you like.    But read what he says, it will be close to the same, lack of receiving skills, agility in the open field and wear on the tires as a RB being used so much in college.  

[CWood21]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:38 PM, badgers0821 said:

What makes you think Taylor’s game/success won’t transfer to the NFL?

There's a TON of mileage on those legs.  He's averaged 300+ attempts in his first two years at Wisconsin, and should easily surpass that this year.  I don't like my RBs having that much mileage on them coming out of college especially with the short shelf life.  He's got limited experience as a receiver out of the backfield, so at best he's a huge question mark there.  He's also playing behind a very good OL, so how much of his production is inflated because of that?  He's got a propensity for fumbles with 12 over the last two years, so he needs to improve in that regard.

[badgers0821]

50 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

There's a TON of mileage on those legs.  He's averaged 300+ attempts in his first two years at Wisconsin, and should easily surpass that this year.  I don't like my RBs having that much mileage on them coming out of college especially with the short shelf life.  He's got limited experience as a receiver out of the backfield, so at best he's a huge question mark there.  He's also playing behind a very good OL, so how much of his production is inflated because of that?  He's got a propensity for fumbles with 12 over the last two years, so he needs to improve in that regard.

Makes sense. Obviously those will be points of emphasis for him this year. I get the mileage thing but I think on the flip side of that it shows he is durable. 

Thanks for keeping it simple and not going off on tangents that are irrelevant. 

[Ozzy]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

There's a TON of mileage on those legs.  He's averaged 300+ attempts in his first two years at Wisconsin, and should easily surpass that this year.  I don't like my RBs having that much mileage on them coming out of college especially with the short shelf life.  He's got limited experience as a receiver out of the backfield, so at best he's a huge question mark there.  He's also playing behind a very good OL, so how much of his production is inflated because of that?  He's got a propensity for fumbles with 12 over the last two years, so he needs to improve in that regard.

EXACTLY, I agree completely and said the exact same thing!  In terms of the length of mine explanation, to those who dislike it not being so succinctly I say..

 

[CWood21]

Let's do it without the jabs at each other.  We're here to talk about prospects.

[beekay414]

Oh look, Wisconsin is starting to feature JT23 in the passing game and he gets two TDs in game one. Who knew?!

Taylor's the best RB in the country, bar none. People say he doesn't make people miss? Really? Is that why he's been the best RB after contact both seasons? His footwork is second to none. Look at his 2nd rushing TD today. Dude made a 37 yard TD run out of the smallest hole. His vision is absolutely incredible.

Between Gordon, White and Clement, people need to stop questioning Wisconsin RBs translating. Taylor is definitely a faster back than Gordon. I mean, JT23 is a 10.4 100m track guy and had a **** ton of 40+ or better runs last year. 

Between his intelligence, his work ethic and his natural ability, there's zero chance he fails to succeed as an NFL RB. He should be the 1st RB off the board.

Worried about workload? Adrian Peterson toted the rock 748 times in 31 games (24 carries per game). He's still an effective RB. In this day and age, I'm not worried about workload. Taylor is the pillar of health, is in incredible shape and is load managed as well as anyone can be getting 300 touches. 

Oh and it's Ozzy talking about Wisconsin. Can't trust a word that dude says. Kid doesn't know **** about the Badgers. He's made that apparent over the years.

@ramssuperbowl99

Edited August 31, 2019 by beekay414

[Packerraymond]

I suggest anyone with doubts on Taylor watch the 4th TD run from last night. If you dont see an elite RB there you probably should stop scouting RBs. Everything is on display there, that's one of those plays that your "league average" RB struggles to get back to the LOS on and he housed it. Vision, agility, balance and legit play speed.

Taylor is a Zeke/Barkley/Fournette runner. What separates him from being a top 10 pick right now is truly limited opportunities in the pass game, and a fumbling issue that being brutally honest is absolutely unsustainable if you want to be an NFL starter. Right now I'd grade him as a high 2nd, which speaks to just how elite he is as a runner because he's UDFA level in the pass game and ball security right now. If you can make those to even league average traits, you have a total stud for the rookie deal on par with the names mentioned above.

[beekay414]

10 hours ago, beekay414 said:

He should be the 1st RB off the board

I will say this though, Travis Etienne will probably be the first RB off the board. Better overall athlete than JT23 and on an incredible program so he's got that exposure. Both are going to be great NFL RBs but, in terms of vision/footwork/making something out of nothing, nobody compares to Taylor.

[CWood21]

16 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Oh look, Wisconsin is starting to feature JT23 in the passing game and he gets two TDs in game one. Who knew?!

Let's wait for more than a game against a miserable USF defense before we make any bold claims here...

[beekay414]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Let's wait for more than a game against a miserable USF defense before we make any bold claims here...

And the rest? Nothing is bold about the rest. JT23 is more than capable in all phases of the game. Wisconsin rarely uses RBs in the pass game. Doesn't mean they suck at it. It took until his senior season for James White to get significantly involved in the pass game and that was on a team that wasn't coached, in some way, by Paul Chryst or Brett Bielema. 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

And the rest? Nothing is bold about the rest. JT23 is more than capable in all phases of the game. Wisconsin rarely uses RBs in the pass game. Doesn't mean they suck at it. It took until his senior season for James White to get significantly involved in the pass game and that was on a team that wasn't coached, in some way, by Paul Chryst or Brett Bielema. 

He hasn't shown the ability to consistently be a threat in the passing game, and one game against a miserable USF defense isn't going to change that.  Not to mention, there's a god awful issue with SSS.  You mention workload and cite Adrian Peterson, but I don't think you truly believe that Jonathan Taylor is the elite athlete that AD was.

[beekay414]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He hasn't shown the ability to consistently be a threat in the passing game, and one game against a miserable USF defense isn't going to change that.  Not to mention, there's a god awful issue with SSS.  You mention workload and cite Adrian Peterson, but I don't think you truly believe that Jonathan Taylor is the elite athlete that AD was.

Dude, you're not stating anything new here. I'm telling you WHY he hasn't been a constant in the receiving game. It's literally because we rarely incorporate our RBs in it. It has little to nothing to do with Taylor's ability there. It's 100% a scheme thing, not a Taylor inability thing. There's a difference, you do know that, right?

Oh, right. My bad. Lord knows you can't compare a measly Wisconsin RB to Oklahoma's all-timer. Not like Taylor's been better than AD was in college or anything. In terms of shiftiness, no, Taylor isn't Peterson. In every other non-pass blocking aspect (and even then, he's not bad at pass blocking)? He's just as good.

In terms of the ability to take on the workload, JT gets better as the game and season rolls on. So I fail to see how workload is an issue. It's not like he's getting 350 carries and only getting 5 yards per. He's averaging 300 touches and he's going for almost 7 per touch.

LIS, his workload management is legit despite getting 22 carries a game on average. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by beekay414