NFCN Rivals - Packers Thread

[beardown3231]

I would happily sign Daniels. Hicks, Goldman, Daniels would be an absolutely ferocious and quite frankly mean DL

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

I would happily sign Daniels. Hicks, Goldman, Daniels would be an absolutely ferocious and quite frankly mean DL

Not sure a declining Daniels coming off injury is better than a rapidly ascending Nichols.  

But if you can get him on cheap one year deal it would be cool to add him to DL rotation and cut an underachieving Bullard.  Bears D would get that much scarier and Packer fans would have a baby.

 

 

[dll2000]

1/2 Packers fans not happy 1/2 rationalizing.

I don't see any way this makes them better.  It was just a cost saving move.

[vegas492]

Packer fan here...read the thread.  Really enjoyed it.  No sarcasm there at all.

My $.02 concerning the Packers.

Four "starters" via free agency.

Smiths at DE/OLB.  They are a lot better than what we rolled out there last year.  I don't think any Packer fans expect them to play like your guy, Mack.  But few can.  What we hope for is setting a better EDGE and getting more pressures.  We were horrible in pressures last year at the OLB position.  Matthews was washed.  Perry hurt.  And Fackrell got like 10.5 sacks on 21 pressures or something insane like that.  GB upgraded that unit a ton in free agency.  In my eyes?  If GB can get 15 sacks combined from those two, that is a huge upgrade over Perry/Matthews last year.  And we know they will get the pressures as I believe between the two of them, they had 100+ pressures last year.  So, is GB great at OLB because of those two?  Lord no.  But they are much better.  And I think that Z Smith is the one that could become even better, he's got potential.  And he's gonna flip inside some on passing downs.

Amos at safety.  Paraphrasing here, but I'd say that Brice was more like "hot garbage" than anything else.  Just terrible.  HHCD was just as bad, only he actually has talent.  Unmotivated, slow to react....he was waiting for a payday that never came.  Then there was Tramon Williams.  Love him, but he's aged and really doesn't have wheels.  Amos is a huge improvement.  We don't expect him to get 6-8 turnovers.  We expect him to help calm down a young secondary and help eliminate big plays.  So far, he's been a very welcome addition and is getting glowing reviews about his work.  Much better at safety with him....even if GB trots out Williams next to him (which they won't).

Billy Turner at RG.  Serviceable?  Yah.  Bronco fans signed off on him as a "plus" guard.  Liability at tackle.  Great movement skills.  Our own Larry McCarren knows a thing or two about offensive lineman and he did a few cutups on Turner from last year and loves him.  Rodgers raves about his toughness.  He seems to fit what our new coach wants to do.  Clearly an upgrade over the trash we trotted out at guard last year.  (McCray, Bell)  Much better line with Turner than without.

Those are the 4 free agents.

Then we have two first round picks.

R. Gary.  Read that he didn't produce in college.  Can't argue that.  He didn't.  Can argue that no one else was double teamed as much as him.  He set up plays for other guys around him.  And they made them.  They even credited Gary for his selfless play.  Still?  I'm 50/50 on him.  When watching him play, you can see "softness" in his game when doubled constantly.  He didn't have many clear wins in the pass rush.  But, when fresh?  Very few men have his size, speed and power.  He's a freak athlete.  He's gotten the best of our Pro-Bowl LT Bakhtiari a few times in OTA's.  I think that he's gonna love pro-ball where he won't be double teamed for the first time in maybe his entire football career.  I think he's a boom/bust candidate.  And in year one, he will be asked to rush the passer and be in the OLB rotation.  Maybe get a few DL snaps in passing down like Z Smith.  He won't be asked to carry the defense.

Savage.  The safety.  Drawing rave reviews from veterans concerning his knowledge of the defense.  Looks like he's picking up concepts fast.  I credit some of that to having Amos around.  Savage is the one with the 4.3 (or so) speed.  Slot skills, too.  Sometimes it takes a while for a safety to get it, sometimes it doesn't.  Thinking Savage is the Day One starter and I"ll take Amos/Savage over HHCD/Brice any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

So yah, GB's roster got a whole lot better than it was last year at this time.  Smiths.  Turner.  Gary.  Savage.  All of them are much better than guys who were on the team last year.

 You guys proved to me that a first year head coach with a new system can sneak up on teams and get some early wins.  I think GB gets a few of those but really we won't hit our stride till week 10 or so.  Then I expect the club to be pretty darned good.

You want to know just how good GB will be?  You are the test.  Week one at your place.  GB will have a better roster.  If you see Rodgers trying to extend most passing plays and having happy feet?  Well, not going to be a great year.  If you see him sticking to the run, taking check downs and moving the chains?  Yah, GB is going to be tough.

I think the Bears and Vikes still fight for the division, but GB is going to be a pest to both teams.  With a little luck and health?  Who knows what will happen. 

 

[vegas492]

28 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

1/2 Packers fans not happy 1/2 rationalizing.

I don't see any way this makes them better.  It was just a cost saving move.

Daniels is a force when healthy.  Problem is, he's rarely healthy. (looking back 2+ years)  He doesn't play well when nicked up. He's always been more bark than bite.   Personally I would have kept him as a pass rushing DL at that contract.  Find it odd that they released him.  Either they have a free agent then feel is the same for less money, or they really like a young kid or two.

Odds are it moves Kenny Clark to that spot where he can be featured a little more and Lancaster comes in to shut down the run...and Lancaster is quite good at that.

If I were an optimist, I'd say that GB just got better on the line as Clark is better than Daniels at this point of their careers.  And Lancaster is equal to Clark in the run game at this point in their careers.

But I"m a little more realistic and say that the GB line is now weaker as there is little depth.  1 very good DL in Clark.  1 very good run stopper in Lancaster.  1 above average DL in Lowry.  3-4 unknowns.  I don't get the hype for Montavious Adams just yet.  Physical talent that just hasn't come through in his first two years.  Either those 3-4 guys have wowed in camp or GB has a plan to get someone else in there that can take some quality snaps.  Because it is thin to me right now, even if Gary and Z Smith take some snaps as a rushing DL.

Edited July 24, 2019 by vegas492

[Superman(DH23)]

GB just let their best pass rusher go.  Somebody is going to sign him and greatly benefit.  

[soulman]

40 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Not sure a declining Daniels coming off injury is better than a rapidly ascending Nichols.  

But if you can get him on cheap one year deal it would be cool to add him to DL rotation and cut an underachieving Bullard.  Bears D would get that much scarier and Packer fans would have a baby.

 

 

I would not in any way see him taking snaps away from Nichols but in a run for the cup he could be an improvement over Bullard.

To be honest though I think someone far more hurting along the DL will scoop him up for far more than it would be worth to us.

[vegas492]

For what it is worth...Daniels would love being part of your rotation.  Forget playing running snaps, pin the ears back and get after the QB with a strong back 7 to support him.  He'd probably thrive in that system. 

[dll2000]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Packer fan here...read the thread.  Really enjoyed it.  No sarcasm there at all.

My $.02 concerning the Packers.

Four "starters" via free agency.

Smiths at DE/OLB.  They are a lot better than what we rolled out there last year.  I don't think any Packer fans expect them to play like your guy, Mack.  But few can.  What we hope for is setting a better EDGE and getting more pressures.  We were horrible in pressures last year at the OLB position.  Matthews was washed.  Perry hurt.  And Fackrell got like 10.5 sacks on 21 pressures or something insane like that.  GB upgraded that unit a ton in free agency.  In my eyes?  If GB can get 15 sacks combined from those two, that is a huge upgrade over Perry/Matthews last year.  And we know they will get the pressures as I believe between the two of them, they had 100+ pressures last year.  So, is GB great at OLB because of those two?  Lord no.  But they are much better.  And I think that Z Smith is the one that could become even better, he's got potential.  And he's gonna flip inside some on passing downs.

Amos at safety.  Paraphrasing here, but I'd say that Brice was more like "hot garbage" than anything else.  Just terrible.  HHCD was just as bad, only he actually has talent.  Unmotivated, slow to react....he was waiting for a payday that never came.  Then there was Tramon Williams.  Love him, but he's aged and really doesn't have wheels.  Amos is a huge improvement.  We don't expect him to get 6-8 turnovers.  We expect him to help calm down a young secondary and help eliminate big plays.  So far, he's been a very welcome addition and is getting glowing reviews about his work.  Much better at safety with him....even if GB trots out Williams next to him (which they won't).

Billy Turner at RG.  Serviceable?  Yah.  Bronco fans signed off on him as a "plus" guard.  Liability at tackle.  Great movement skills.  Our own Larry McCarren knows a thing or two about offensive lineman and he did a few cutups on Turner from last year and loves him.  Rodgers raves about his toughness.  He seems to fit what our new coach wants to do.  Clearly an upgrade over the trash we trotted out at guard last year.  (McCray, Bell)  Much better line with Turner than without.

Those are the 4 free agents.

Then we have two first round picks.

R. Gary.  Read that he didn't produce in college.  Can't argue that.  He didn't.  Can argue that no one else was double teamed as much as him.  He set up plays for other guys around him.  And they made them.  They even credited Gary for his selfless play.  Still?  I'm 50/50 on him.  When watching him play, you can see "softness" in his game when doubled constantly.  He didn't have many clear wins in the pass rush.  But, when fresh?  Very few men have his size, speed and power.  He's a freak athlete.  He's gotten the best of our Pro-Bowl LT Bakhtiari a few times in OTA's.  I think that he's gonna love pro-ball where he won't be double teamed for the first time in maybe his entire football career.  I think he's a boom/bust candidate.  And in year one, he will be asked to rush the passer and be in the OLB rotation.  Maybe get a few DL snaps in passing down like Z Smith.  He won't be asked to carry the defense.

Savage.  The safety.  Drawing rave reviews from veterans concerning his knowledge of the defense.  Looks like he's picking up concepts fast.  I credit some of that to having Amos around.  Savage is the one with the 4.3 (or so) speed.  Slot skills, too.  Sometimes it takes a while for a safety to get it, sometimes it doesn't.  Thinking Savage is the Day One starter and I"ll take Amos/Savage over HHCD/Brice any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

So yah, GB's roster got a whole lot better than it was last year at this time.  Smiths.  Turner.  Gary.  Savage.  All of them are much better than guys who were on the team last year.

 You guys proved to me that a first year head coach with a new system can sneak up on teams and get some early wins.  I think GB gets a few of those but really we won't hit our stride till week 10 or so.  Then I expect the club to be pretty darned good.

You want to know just how good GB will be?  You are the test.  Week one at your place.  GB will have a better roster.  If you see Rodgers trying to extend most passing plays and having happy feet?  Well, not going to be a great year.  If you see him sticking to the run, taking check downs and moving the chains?  Yah, GB is going to be tough.

I think the Bears and Vikes still fight for the division, but GB is going to be a pest to both teams.  With a little luck and health?  Who knows what will happen. 

 

That is fair and rational.

I think overall you added a lot of good players and depth who replaced bad players, but not difference makers or stars.   It will become a matter of the collective good being better than having stars.

You just lost Mike Daniels.  It might be a necessary move, but it can't be said to make defense better unless Gary jumps out.  But they were talking about Gary playing mostly OLB not DE.  I know he will play some DE and so will Z. Smith.  Lowry will get. a lot more reps too. 

Is Lowry good?  I don't even really know to be honest.  

 

 

 

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

28 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

For what it is worth...Daniels would love being part of your rotation.  Forget playing running snaps, pin the ears back and get after the QB with a strong back 7 to support him.  He'd probably thrive in that system. 

I think he’s thrive here too but I can’t see him signing here, both because DL is already one of our stronger position groups but also because the $ it would take to do so even on a 1-year deal is probably money we are looking to either use or roll over to 2020 to cover big parts of some really expensive extensions coming up after this season. 

If I had to guess I’d say he has a great shot at signing with the Colts. I think they have the need, they’re a playoff contender already and they have the cap space to give him more 2019 money than probably anyone else. 

[Superman(DH23)]

12 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think he’s thrive here too but I can’t see him signing here, both because DL is already one of our stronger position groups but also because the $ it would take to do so even on a 1-year deal is probably money we are looking to either use or roll over to 2020 to cover big parts of some really expensive extensions coming up after this season. 

If I had to guess I’d say he has a great shot at signing with the Colts. I think they have the need, they’re a playoff contender already and they have the cap space to give him more 2019 money than probably anyone else. 

And as a 3 tech in the Eberflus system, which is just an evolution of Tampa 2, he could be an absolute terror.

[Fl0nkerton]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

GB just let their best pass rusher go.  Somebody is going to sign him and greatly benefit.  

[soulman]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

For what it is worth...Daniels would love being part of your rotation.  Forget playing running snaps, pin the ears back and get after the QB with a strong back 7 to support him.  He'd probably thrive in that system. 

Affordability would more than likely be an issue.  Both Goldman and Hicks are on new money deals and Floyd is gonna be looking for an extension.  And that's on top of what Mack is getting.

At age 30 I gotta think he's looking for someone else to offer a multi-year deal with some guarantees not a one year deal for short money.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

That is fair and rational.

I think overall you added a lot of good players and depth who replaced bad players, but not difference makers or stars.   It will become a matter of the collective good being better than having stars.

You just lost Mike Daniels.  It might be a necessary move, but it can't be said to make defense better unless Gary jumps out.  But they were talking about Gary playing mostly OLB not DE.  I know he will play some DE and so will Z. Smith.  Lowry will get. a lot more reps too. 

Is Lowry good?  I don't even really know to be honest.  

I agree.  Added good players.  I'd also add, replaced garbage.  HHCD, Brice, Bell, Matthews, Perry.  Much love for Matthews, but he was a shell of his former self last year.  HHCD had talent, but no heart.  And that didn't improve in Washington.  I know you guys are excited to have him.  If you get 2016 HHCD, you'll love him.  If 2017 or 2018 HHCD shows up, you will cut him.  He'll let everyone down.  And I can't see your coaches putting up with that.

I would say that Z Smith has the potential to be a difference maker and a star.  Not a star like Mack.  He's not that elite.  But I think Z could be a 10-12 sack guy.  Remember, Pettine schemes for sacks and Z has some great hands and a motor that won't quit.  If the undertalented Fackrell can get 10.5 sacks via scheme, Z can easily get 10-12.  That's the one I"m watching closely.

Gary is pure boom/bust.  I'm counting on very little from him early.  But by week 10, he should be getting some nice snaps in pressure packages.  And he could very well turn some heads early as teams aren't ready for his size/speed combo.

We lost Mike Daniels last year.  Week 12.  Defense didn't suffer.  He had 18 tackles and 2 sacks in 10 games and change.  How would that stack on your line?  Any cause for concern if that player was released?  Yah, this isn't the young Daniels we released.  It was the aged version who was slowing down, poor scheme fit, injured and expensive.

Lowry is average to slightly above average.  Quick, strong, extremely smart.  Small arms.  He "almost" makes a lot of plays.  Solid guy.  No where near the upside as a young/healthy Daniels.  But he's much more reliable.

Honestly I don't know what GB is thinking.  I believe they said they liked the young kids, which would be Adams and Keke.  I don't know.  If I were a betting man, I'd say GB gets Mo Wilkerson back on the cheap to eat some snaps on the DL.  (Pettine connection)  And if they don't, yah, I'm worried about the line being thin.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think he’s thrive here too but I can’t see him signing here, both because DL is already one of our stronger position groups but also because the $ it would take to do so even on a 1-year deal is probably money we are looking to either use or roll over to 2020 to cover big parts of some really expensive extensions coming up after this season. 

If I had to guess I’d say he has a great shot at signing with the Colts. I think they have the need, they’re a playoff contender already and they have the cap space to give him more 2019 money than probably anyone else. 

It'll be the Browns.  Green Bay East.  They were in on McCoy. 

I still think he'd thrive in your system with your defensive guys, very true that you aren't in a cap situation to make it feasible.

Throwing larger dollars at Daniels would be foolish.  Colts haven't done anything foolish with their money this year.  I don't see it starting now.  It is kind of odd and a rarity in the league.