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NFCN Rivals - Packers Thread

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3 minutes ago, malak1 said:

We aren’t quite out of the water with this yet. 

Oh ye of little faith. LOL

We're miles ahead of where we've ever been with any other draft pick since Mac.  The list is lengthy and very undistinguished.

I have faith Mitch is gonna be a very good QB.  Maybe not a HOF QB but still a very good QB because he's getting great coaching and Pace is committed to surrounding him with the talent he needs to succeed.

If we'd done the same with Cutler we might have spared ourselves about 7 years of agony.

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17 minutes ago, soulman said:

Oh ye of little faith. LOL

We're miles ahead of where we've ever been with any other draft pick since Mac.  The list is lengthy and very undistinguished.

I have faith Mitch is gonna be a very good QB.  Maybe not a HOF QB but still a very good QB because he's getting great coaching and Pace is committed to surrounding him with the talent he needs to succeed.

If we'd done the same with Cutler we might have spared ourselves about 7 years of agony.

I’m not saying Mitch won’t be good. I’m more hopeful than most on that front. I’m just saying, it’s still up in the air. Hopefully he solidifies himself this season.

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8 hours ago, soulman said:

If we'd done the same with Cutler we might have spared ourselves about 7 years of agony.

Maybe? Not arguing that they could have surrounded him with better talent...but there was always a big mental aspect to Cutler's game that I'd qualify as...missing. I don't he ever would be a lot more than an average quarterback. Just too up and down. 

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46 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Maybe? Not arguing that they could have surrounded him with better talent...but there was always a big mental aspect to Cutler's game that I'd qualify as...missing. I don't he ever would be a lot more than an average quarterback. Just too up and down. 

There's really no way of telling except to say that back in 2010-11 he got within one half of one NFC Championship game of getting us into a SB the Packers won.  Reverse that and it's likely the views of many fans and the media would be quite different.

Playing behind the OL we have now, with the WRs we have, and within a scheme built around his own skills as we're now doing with Mitch I believe we would have seen a much different player.  No perfect by any means but far more than just average.

Many tend to forget that until the Trestman and Fox eras he'd won nearly 80% of his games when the defense allowed less than 20 points but when it broke down do to age and Urlacher's injuries and retirement Cutler could not carry the team based on how little offensive talent we had around him.

When Denver drafted him he was to be that guy who could replace Elway and win via his mobility, improvisation, and a big play arm which is basically how Elway played.  His career stats for TDs and Ints were very much like Cutler's own stats.  But Shanahan got fired and from that point on every other HC/OC he has asked him to become a system QB in his system (all six of them) which is something Jay was never meant to do.

If you compare Cutlers record with that of someone like Kurt Cousins you get a better perspective on how much more productive he actually was yet at face value few would see it that way.  Jay had his flaws but he was also capable of much more than he was ever given the tools to prove it.  As bad as many thought he was he still holds nearly every Bears passing record in history.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, soulman said:

There's really no way of telling except to say that back in 2010-11 he got within one half of one NFC Championship game of getting us into a SB the Packers won.  Reverse that and it's likely the views of many fans and the media would be quite different.

Playing behind the OL we have now, with the WRs we have, and within a scheme built around his own skills as we're now doing with Mitch I believe we would have seen a much different player.  No perfect by any means but far more than just average.

Many tend to forget that until the Trestman and Fox eras he'd won nearly 80% of his games when the defense allowed less than 20 points but when it broke down do to age and Urlacher's injuries and retirement Cutler could not carry the team based on how little offensive talent we had around him.

When Denver drafted him he was to be that guy who could replace Elway and win via his mobility, improvisation, and a big play arm which is basically how Elway played.  His career stats for TDs and Ints were very much like Cutler's own stats.  But Shanahan got fired and from that point on every other HC/OC he has asked him to become a system QB in his system (all six of them) which is something Jay was never meant to do.

If you compare Cutlers record with that of someone like Kurt Cousins you get a better perspective on how much more productive he actually was yet at face value few would see it that way.  Jay had his flaws but he was also capable of much more than he was ever given the tools to prove it.  As bad as many thought he was he still holds nearly every Bears passing record in history.

 

Went back just to look at the comparisons.

Kreutz was an absolute monster in his heyday but at that time he was breaking down, Garza was easily the best player of that group (he would be our reserve OG, Kreutz our reserve C). Hester and Knox would both make the team due to special teams ability more than receiving, though Ridley and Wims would be part of the fight for PT with them. Knox would be the best on the team at stretching the field so he may push someone off. Olsen was better than Burton IMO and Clark is better than anyone other than those two. Forte was absolutely better than anyone we have ATM, and that isn't a negative towards DMC.

That offense was REALLY, REALLY bad. Martz either had a massive pair or was completely out of touch with reality to think he was making the Greatest Show on Turf 2.0. That is a roster you expect after several starters go down for the season, not what you field when healthy.

Gross.

Edited by Sugashane

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

 

Went back just to look at the comparisons.

Kreutz was an absolute monster in his heyday but at that time he was breaking down, Garza was easily the best player of that group (he would be our reserve OG, Kreutz our reserve C). Hester and Knox would both make the team due to special teams ability more than receiving, though Ridley and Wims would be part of the fight for PT with them. Knox would be the best on the team at stretching the field so he may push someone off. Olsen was better than Burton IMO and Clark is better than anyone other than those two. Forte was absolutely better than anyone we have ATM, and that isn't a negative towards DMC.

That offense was REALLY, REALLY bad. Martz either had a massive pair or was completely out of touch with reality to think he was making the Greatest Show on Turf 2.0. That is a roster you expect after several starters go down for the season, not what you field when healthy.

Gross.

Put Cutler on the 2006 SB team in place of Grossman and there's a better than even chance we win.  The Colts could focus on stopping our running attack and dare Rex to beat them through the air.  Much tougher to do had Cutler been the QB.

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

Put Cutler on the 2006 SB team in place of Grossman and there's a better than even chance we win.  The Colts could focus on stopping our running attack and dare Rex to beat them through the air.  Much tougher to do had Cutler been the QB.

Hell put rookie Tru or McCown in and the chances are better than even IMO. Tru had enough mobility to be a pain in their *** and McCown at least could be patient and dink-and-dunk enough to give our defense a rest and not throw away the game.

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19 hours ago, soulman said:

If you compare Cutlers record with that of someone like Kurt Cousins you get a better perspective on how much more productive he actually was yet at face value few would see it that way.  Jay had his flaws but he was also capable of much more than he was ever given the tools to prove it.  As bad as many thought he was he still holds nearly every Bears passing record in history.

Maybe I didn't mean "average"...but I don't know for sure. Cutler was one of the weirdest players to ever don a jersey. I'm not saying he couldn't have won the SB the Pack did--he probably would have because of that defense. He'd have games that would absolutely wow you, but then there were the games where he'd melt down mentally and throw a bunch of stupid interceptions. And I truly believe there was something to those bad games that really was mostly on Cutler. But no one can really deny he didn't have the best coaching situations...

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Is something, like, wrong with Packers fans? Has the water crisis in Flint spread across Lake Michigan into Wisconsin?

 

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9 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Is something, like, wrong with Packers fans? Has the water crisis in Flint spread across Lake Michigan into Wisconsin?

 

Are they still trying to convince themselves that Amos is a stellar pass defender when his stats don't indicate that and never have?

More importantly they should be concerned by the fact that Amos player rating rose dramatically only after we drafted Eddie Jackson.

Playing with an All Pro partner tends to help.

I like Amos and was fine with re-signing him but not for what GB paid.

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13 hours ago, soulman said:

Are they still trying to convince themselves that Amos is a stellar pass defender when his stats don't indicate that and never have?

More importantly they should be concerned by the fact that Amos player rating rose dramatically only after we drafted Eddie Jackson.

Playing with an All Pro partner tends to help.

I like Amos and was fine with re-signing him but not for what GB paid.

Yeah, when Amos was the most talented safety in our secondary even PFF ranked him in the 40s. Average starter. What of note did he do with Jackson out last year? The INT in the playoff game was a deflected pass floater that any safety catches. It wasn’t a great play by him but rather him getting the takeaway because of a great play by someone else. 

IMO, whether or not Amos lives up to his contract in GB will be largely dependent upon whether Darnell Savage (who I am very high on) pans out. With that said, that that’s potentially a requirement for Amos’ play to reach the point where his contract is justified is already an acknowledgement that they overpaid. They got average who looks good next to great at a good-to-great price. He’s the baked potato with butter thats just a potato until it’s served with an impeccably prepared ribeye. 

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12 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Yeah, when Amos was the most talented safety in our secondary even PFF ranked him in the 40s. Average starter. What of note did he do with Jackson out last year? The INT in the playoff game was a deflected pass floater that any safety catches. It wasn’t a great play by him but rather him getting the takeaway because of a great play by someone else. 

IMO, whether or not Amos lives up to his contract in GB will be largely dependent upon whether Darnell Savage (who I am very high on) pans out. With that said, that that’s potentially a requirement for Amos’ play to reach the point where his contract is justified is already an acknowledgement that they overpaid. They got average who looks good next to great at a good-to-great price. He’s the baked potato with butter thats just a potato until it’s served with an impeccably prepared ribeye. 

 Amos was really good in robber coverage.  Johnny on spot to shut down crossing routes on zone switch with corner.  Someone did a video on it.

So he is a smart player and GB fans insist that HHCD is a moron.  But we know that Amos is limited in coverage and hands without a stacked team around him.

We'll see how it all plays out.  It's a virtual lock HHCD gets multiple picks this year if he starts 16 games.  I can't say the same for Amos.

 

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1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

Yeah, when Amos was the most talented safety in our secondary even PFF ranked him in the 40s. Average starter. What of note did he do with Jackson out last year? The INT in the playoff game was a deflected pass floater that any safety catches. It wasn’t a great play by him but rather him getting the takeaway because of a great play by someone else. 

IMO, whether or not Amos lives up to his contract in GB will be largely dependent upon whether Darnell Savage (who I am very high on) pans out. With that said, that that’s potentially a requirement for Amos’ play to reach the point where his contract is justified is already an acknowledgement that they overpaid. They got average who looks good next to great at a good-to-great price. He’s the baked potato with butter thats just a potato until it’s served with an impeccably prepared ribeye. 

Honestly, I don't even remember Amos' pick in the playoff game thanks to his moronic late hit on Ertz and then not counting 10 players on the TD.

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6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Yeah, when Amos was the most talented safety in our secondary even PFF ranked him in the 40s. Average starter. What of note did he do with Jackson out last year? The INT in the playoff game was a deflected pass floater that any safety catches. It wasn’t a great play by him but rather him getting the takeaway because of a great play by someone else. 

IMO, whether or not Amos lives up to his contract in GB will be largely dependent upon whether Darnell Savage (who I am very high on) pans out. With that said, that that’s potentially a requirement for Amos’ play to reach the point where his contract is justified is already an acknowledgement that they overpaid. They got average who looks good next to great at a good-to-great price. He’s the baked potato with butter thats just a potato until it’s served with an impeccably prepared ribeye. 

Oh thanks.....now I'm hungry and fresh outta baked potato and rib eye. :(

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3 minutes ago, soulman said:

Oh thanks.....now I'm hungry and fresh outta baked potato and rib eye. :(

IKR? I have rib eyes in the freezer but those are for this weekend.  Smh AZ :)

 

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