Jump to content

NFCN Rivals - Packers Thread


dll2000

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, soulman said:

Do you have a problem with understanding the written word?  Seems like it, and all you're doing is repeating yourself preaching to a choir of pretty intelligent fans who aren't as ill informed about HHC-D prior weaknesses as you seem to think we are.  You're posting like a non-stop 30 second tape loop of the same old material to guys who already have a clue about him.  He'll need to earn is spot here and keep it.

We didn't commit serious money to him.  We committed $500k at signing.  He can earn another $2.5 mil only if he's on the active roster for all 16 games.  $3 mil is pretty much backups money for an experienced former Pro Bowler.  Serious money is what Amos got and it was more than Pace could justify spending.  It's not as if he made no attempt to sign him.  He just wouldn't overpay by that much.

And I don't really care who you were debating his ranking with last year.  You're posting to me now and I believe I know my own team well enough to feel more correct about Amos than someone whose not a Bears fan.  He's a solid but unspectacular SS who comes to play every game and he won't hurt you in the secondary but he's not a play maker type like Jackson who'll make many game changing plays. 

Amos' play was also helped a great deal once he and Jackson were a pair.  Prior to that his staring job was anything but secure and Pace was signing vet Safeties in free agency each year to compete with him.  Of our starters in the secondary including Slot CB Bryce Callahan he would be the 5th best guy. 

Of the front seven I'd say only rookie Bilal Nichols might rank lower and he was coming on like gang busters late in the year as were Roquan Smith and Leonard Floyd so yeah, the 10th or 11th best defender is about right.  I'd hoped we'd be able to sign him but it's not as if he was irreplaceable and we did.  HHC-D also gives us a true FS type as depth behind Eddie Jackson which we did not have before.

I'm one who believes that had Jackson not been injured in the GB game and missed the playoffs the Philly game would never been in the hands of "Double Doink" to begin with.  Jackson and Callahan both missed that game and it hurt far more than if we'd have been missing Adrian Amos.  Truth be told our secondary looks better now and has more quality depth than it did last season.

So I don't know what else to tell you other than no one in that secondary can't be challenged.  It's unlikely anyone else will beat out Fuller, Amukamara, and Jackson but HHC-D is a newbie and he has at least 2 or 3 others who are gonna get looks at Safety.  Nothing is guaranteed to him but that $500k signing bonus.  If he wants the starters gig he's gonna need to earn it.  End of story.

No.  I'm just not going to immediately assume that the solution is always the one that's put right in front of you.  Yes, the Bears save $2.75M if they release him right now.  But that money being saved goes down the longer he plays.  Every game he plays, he's collecting 125k on base salary alone plus the $31,250 active game bonus he receives.  IF they cut him after say Game 8, he would have collected $1.25M of base salary and active game bonuses PLUS his 500k roster bonus PLUS his 500k signing bonus.  That's $2.25M he's collected, which becomes guaranteed money.  It's only 500k if he is released prior to cutdowns.  Once you start playing, that money goes from being unguaranteed to guaranteed.  But like you said, that's top backup S money which is reason 1,001 and why he won't be released.  You're not going to find someone who is better than him for less money.  But how many games is it going to take the Bears to pull the plug on HHCD?

You probably know more about Amos than I do, which is why I think it's amusing you're telling me you know more about HHCD.  I sat here and debated with Pool last year the value of Amos.  He told me repeatedly that Amos was a stud, and I argued that he was a solid safety.  I would agree that the revolving door at safety next to HHCD doesn't help, but that still doesn't change the fact that he's routinely coming in soft in run support and takes poor angles to ball carriers.  That's not really a technique thing.  That's an issue mentally, specifically his willingness to get his hands dirty.  Amos needs another solid safety next to him, which I'd argue applies to about 98% of the safeties in the league.  There's very few safeties who can effectively play single high.  Right now, you're docking Amos' value because he's no longer a Bear.  If he was the 10th or 11th best player on the Bears' D, he wouldn't have gotten the deal from the Packers that he just did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

You're going from Adrian Amos who is probably the most boring, but "safe" safeties in the NFL and you swapped him for HHCD who consistently take bad angles to ball carrier and comes up weak in run support for the occasional interception.  Interceptions are largely about being in the right place at the right time, but if another interception or two is worth the TDs given up.  All the power to you.

Most players play up whenever they're in contract years.  He managed not just once, but twice play poorly in contracts for two separates teams.  That's a red flag.  I'm not committing serious money to a guy who shows up half the time.  Let's not kid ourselves, HHCD will be in the lineup come hell or high water.  Amos was definitely better than the 10th or 11th best guy on the defense, although this certainly seems like the exact opposite of the conversation I was having with @Pool last year when he was adamant he was an elite safety, and I said he was a steady safety.

And yet their amount of missed tackles were practically identical last season

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

No.  I'm just not going to immediately assume that the solution is always the one that's put right in front of you.  Yes, the Bears save $2.75M if they release him right now.  But that money being saved goes down the longer he plays.  Every game he plays, he's collecting 125k on base salary alone plus the $31,250 active game bonus he receives.  IF they cut him after say Game 8, he would have collected $1.25M of base salary and active game bonuses PLUS his 500k roster bonus PLUS his 500k signing bonus.  That's $2.25M he's collected, which becomes guaranteed money.  It's only 500k if he is released prior to cutdowns.  Once you start playing, that money goes from being unguaranteed to guaranteed.  But like you said, that's top backup S money which is reason 1,001 and why he won't be released.  You're not going to find someone who is better than him for less money.  But how many games is it going to take the Bears to pull the plug on HHCD?

You probably know more about Amos than I do, which is why I think it's amusing you're telling me you know more about HHCD.  I sat here and debated with Pool last year the value of Amos.  He told me repeatedly that Amos was a stud, and I argued that he was a solid safety.  I would agree that the revolving door at safety next to HHCD doesn't help, but that still doesn't change the fact that he's routinely coming in soft in run support and takes poor angles to ball carriers.  That's not really a technique thing.  That's an issue mentally, specifically his willingness to get his hands dirty.  Amos needs another solid safety next to him, which I'd argue applies to about 98% of the safeties in the league.  There's very few safeties who can effectively play single high.  Right now, you're docking Amos' value because he's no longer a Bear.  If he was the 10th or 11th best player on the Bears' D, he wouldn't have gotten the deal from the Packers that he just did.

Come on man.  Don't keep hammering on this same old stuff.  You had a point to make and you've made it, several times over, only to come back asking questions like this...."But how many games is it going to take the Bears to pull the plug on HHCD?".....that have no answer.  No one around here that I know of is clairvoyant.  Somewhere between none and 16 + playoffs hopefully.

And I'm not docking anything.  Did you even read my posts?  I've already told you I would have preferred we sign him and the same with Callahan but that was before I knew the kind of offer he got from "The Tundra".  He was most definitely lower ranked on the Bears defense than he will be on the Packers defense.  Their offer was based on what he's worth to them.  Whatever offer Pace made was based on how much he was worth to the Bears.  That's always the way it works. 

I'm glad he got his money and immediately found a new home.  I liked him as a player.  But now he's a Packer and I'll hope he plays poorly whenever the two teams meet because that's the way THAT works too and please.....stop with the endless repeats.  It's a circular debate by now.  Your opinions won't change anyone's mind here and ours haven't changed yours....that's obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

There might be the occasional Clay homer who thought he was still good.  The guy hasn't been great in a few years.  He's a situational pass rusher at best in his career.  He needed to get out of Pettine's system though.

I believe that I was only foolish enough to post in the Packer forum once (though, in my defense I truly didn't know any better at the time), and that was to congratulate the folks there on Gutekunst coming on and Thompson retiring. I said Thompson wasn't very good at his job, and boy was that a big mistake. (I also added that I feared the Pack now more than I have in some time, but that was ignored.)

So I'm thinking that the conversation occurred right here. I said that the only thing Clay Matthews was good at any more was making commercials. You came in and claimed that after careful study of film that not only was Matthews still a great player, but it looked like to you that he had actually GAINED a step recently. And that, basically, his low sack numbers were due to bad luck. 

27 minutes ago, soulman said:

No one around here that I know of is clairvoyant. 

I am. Well, sort of.  I built a see-the-future-inator. I just don't reveal too much, as I know you guys dislike spoilers. :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought this issue was pretty weird when it first came up. I mean, that it became a big deal and all. The fact that it's still floating around (and it is, whether the OP is recent, or not) makes it concerning. Well...not to me, but you know what I mean...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:
2 hours ago, soulman said:

No one around here that I know of is clairvoyant. 

I am. Well, sort of.  I built a see-the-future-inator. I just don't reveal too much, as I know you guys dislike spoilers. :D

Claire Voyant was also my 4th grade teacher.  I'll bet you did not know that. ;)

Anyway, I'm sure she's passed away by now so I know she isn't posting here.  :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I don't care whose coaching GB.  Whenever Rodgers steps on the field he can find ways to win games.

Sometimes it's due to pure dumb luck as it was in the first Packer game in 2018 but many times it's not and it happens often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, soulman said:

Come on man.  Don't keep hammering on this same old stuff.  You had a point to make and you've made it, several times over, only to come back asking questions like this...."But how many games is it going to take the Bears to pull the plug on HHCD?".....that have no answer.  No one around here that I know of is clairvoyant.  Somewhere between none and 16 + playoffs hopefully.

And I'm not docking anything.  Did you even read my posts?  I've already told you I would have preferred we sign him and the same with Callahan but that was before I knew the kind of offer he got from "The Tundra".  He was most definitely lower ranked on the Bears defense than he will be on the Packers defense.  Their offer was based on what he's worth to them.  Whatever offer Pace made was based on how much he was worth to the Bears.  That's always the way it works. 

I'm glad he got his money and immediately found a new home.  I liked him as a player.  But now he's a Packer and I'll hope he plays poorly whenever the two teams meet because that's the way THAT works too and please.....stop with the endless repeats.  It's a circular debate by now.  Your opinions won't change anyone's mind here and ours haven't changed yours....that's obvious.

It's as misleading as the notion that somehow the argument that it only costs the Bears 500k if they release him.  That only occurs if that happens prior to the start of the season.  It's not a reliable point in your argument.  Unless you have reason to believe he's going to be released before then, it's really not a strong argument.

I'm talking about the argument that Amos was your 10th or 11th best defensive player.  Unless you're fielding a team of All Pros, your 10th and 11th best player are usually JAGs.  Amos isn't a JAG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I believe that I was only foolish enough to post in the Packer forum once (though, in my defense I truly didn't know any better at the time), and that was to congratulate the folks there on Gutekunst coming on and Thompson retiring. I said Thompson wasn't very good at his job, and boy was that a big mistake. (I also added that I feared the Pack now more than I have in some time, but that was ignored.)

So I'm thinking that the conversation occurred right here. I said that the only thing Clay Matthews was good at any more was making commercials. You came in and claimed that after careful study of film that not only was Matthews still a great player, but it looked like to you that he had actually GAINED a step recently. And that, basically, his low sack numbers were due to bad luck. 

I don't think anyone (myself included) thought that Matthews gained a step.  But he was clearly an awful fit in Pettine's defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You're going from Adrian Amos who is probably the most boring, but "safe" safeties in the NFL and you swapped him for HHCD who consistently take bad angles to ball carrier and comes up weak in run support for the occasional interception.  Interceptions are largely about being in the right place at the right time, but if another interception or two is worth the TDs given up.  All the power to you.

Most players play up whenever they're in contract years.  He managed not just once, but twice play poorly in contracts for two separates teams.  That's a red flag.  I'm not committing serious money to a guy who shows up half the time.  Let's not kid ourselves, HHCD will be in the lineup come hell or high water.  Amos was definitely better than the 10th or 11th best guy on the defense, although this certainly seems like the exact opposite of the conversation I was having with @Pool last year when he was adamant he was an elite safety, and I said he was a steady safety.

Lol dude you are really stretching things here. I never once said he was elite. I beg you to show where I did. You said him Howard and someone else (Fuller maybe?) were average players and I said they were certainly  better than average. But then again, you were wrong. You were proven wrong. So let it go. Geez.

*Edit* @CWood21 Going through my post history this is now the 3rd time you have claimed I said Amos was elite and the 3rd time I've said I never said that. At what point is it just trolling? Because you are clearly trolling. 

Edited by Pool
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...