wcblack34 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Krauser said: Alex Smith’s career is over, his leg injury was Theismann like. Cousins would cost the Vikings an additional $31M (above his current cap hit) to trade. I believe he has a no trade clause anyway. Williams’ holdout and trade demand reportedly is due to him feeling the team has mishandled his medical care over the years, not just a new contract demand. Williams just turned 31. The last 3 seasons, he’s missed 4, 6 and 3 games and his PFF grades have fallen off. I’d be leery of signing him to a long term deal at premium prices. Some tackles (Whitworth, Peters) do excel into their mid-30s but that isn’t the rule. The recent contract benchmarks for tackles (Lewan, Brown) would put an extension for Williams at $16M per year or above. That’d be difficult for the Vikings to accommodate even moving Reiff. A trade involving Reiff might have had some appeal to Washington, but they already signed Donald Penn. Treadwell has no trade value. Waynes has some, but the Vikings can’t move a CB unless they’re OK starting Kris Boyd. A first round pick is way too much to pay for a 31 year old OL. I can’t imagine the Vikings are in the market for Williams. Reiff and the OL should do better this year with the coaching and scheme change. Killjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Perhaps we could trade them Kirk Cousins? He might look good in burgundy and gold. (Kidding.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Krauser said: Alex Smith’s career is over, his leg injury was Theismann like. Cousins would cost the Vikings an additional $31M (above his current cap hit) to trade. I believe he has a no trade clause anyway. Williams’ holdout and trade demand reportedly is due to him feeling the team has mishandled his medical care over the years, not just a new contract demand. Williams just turned 31. The last 3 seasons, he’s missed 4, 6 and 3 games and his PFF grades have fallen off. I’d be leery of signing him to a long term deal at premium prices. Some tackles (Whitworth, Peters) do excel into their mid-30s but that isn’t the rule. The recent contract benchmarks for tackles (Lewan, Brown) would put an extension for Williams at $16M per year or above. That’d be difficult for the Vikings to accommodate even moving Reiff. A trade involving Reiff might have had some appeal to Washington, but they already signed Donald Penn. Treadwell has no trade value. Waynes has some, but the Vikings can’t move a CB unless they’re OK starting Kris Boyd. A first round pick is way too much to pay for a 31 year old OL. I can’t imagine the Vikings are in the market for Williams. Reiff and the OL should do better this year with the coaching and scheme change. Fact is Viking fans, or at least most would love an super star OL. Just the thought of it is cool. If we were to get someone like Williams which we cannot really, he would be the best lineman we have had is what Steve Hutchinson. Since then basically nothing over that time span, yeah Matt Kalil and his one pro bowl rookie year then he falls off the planet and is nothing after the injuries he had. Brought in now to the Texans who have arguably the worst offensive in football. Maybe Bradbury can become that star but will see, I have my doubts but hopefully he is great. Generally speaking though no one on the current line is going to be a super star player. All most can hope for is an improvement from last year and that they play well as a unit. With the Vikings cap situation currently and in the coming years they are pretty limited in any type of player decisions and moves outside of draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Would he even be a scheme fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Not crazy about Williams as a Viking. He will be costly, financially and compensation wise, and I'm not sure he'd be much of a long term solution. nor do I think the Vikes are a top 5 LT away from being a super bowl favorite in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Krauser said: Cousins would cost the Vikings an additional $31M (above his current cap hit) to trade. In 2019? How? What don't I know about his contract? His prorated bonus for all years after 2019 would all hit the cap next year since it is after June 1. Since there is only one year left on his contract, all that means is the bonus that was going to hit the 2020 cap is still going to hit the 2020 cap. Cousins' guaranteed 2019 salary would be paid to him by his new team along with his guaranteed 2020 salary. That would hit the new teams cap. If the Vikings keep Kirk Cousins on the roster this year he will count $29M against the Vikings salary cap and he would still have the $1.5M of prorated salary bonus hitting the cap in 2020. If the Vikings traded Cousins right now, Cousins would count $1.5M against the Vikings 2019 cap, $27.5M against the cap of whatever team took him and his contract, and the Vikings would still have $1.5M of prorated salary bonus hitting their cap in 2020. To save others from doing that math, what those numbers say is that trading away Kirk Cousins would save the Vikings $27.5M against their 2019 cap and $29.5M against their 2020 salary cap. But yeah, good luck trading him away. It would require finding a team in a desperate situation to trade for Kirk Cousins and his current contract. There are only so many GMs that would do something like that -- and yes, that is a shot at Rick Spielman and his boneheaded trade for Sam Bradford. Finally, to be clear, I am not at all saying, or trying to imply, in the above that I think the Vikings will trade Kirk Cousins away -- or even want to. If the team drafted a QB in the first round they might have been looking to move Cousins but they were unable to find one this year. Maybe next year. In the meantime, the team needs to do everything they can to help Kirk Cousins look good this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Duluther said: Perhaps we could trade them Kirk Cousins? He might look good in burgundy and gold. (Kidding.) Can we get Case Keenum back in that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Cearbhall said: In 2019? How? What don't I know about his contract? I don’t know how it works but OTC lists the entire contract as dead cap. But maybe that’s meant to be understood as applicable only if released. If traded, you’re right his new team would pay his salary. In any case, Cousins does have a no trade clause: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921414/article/inside-kirk-cousins-historic-contract-with-minnesota-vikings Zero chance he’d approve a trade back to Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 5 hours ago, Klomp said: Would he even be a scheme fit? Sure he would be. Williams was the LT for Mike Shanahan and then for Kyle Shanahan and McVay under Gruden. Kubiak/Stefanski will likely run a similar system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Krauser said: I don’t know how it works but OTC lists the entire contract as dead cap. But maybe that’s meant to be understood as applicable only if released. If traded, you’re right his new team would pay his salary. In any case, Cousins does have a no trade clause: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921414/article/inside-kirk-cousins-historic-contract-with-minnesota-vikings Zero chance he’d approve a trade back to Washington. I agree that he wouldn't approve a trade back to Washington. As far as the cap ramifications, which is all I was trying to clarify, OTC does list it as $27.5M in cap savings this year and $1.5M of dead cap space if the team trades Cousins right now: https://overthecap.com/player/kirk-cousins/1443/ You have to select "Trade (post June1)" from the dropdown in the "Dead Money & Cap Savings" column of the "Current Contract" table. Aside from what OTC says, what really matters is what the CBA says and the particulars of Cousins' contract. I know what the CBA says, just wasn't sure if I was missing something in Cousins' contract since I have never got to read his contract. Though, I can't even imagine what would be in there to cause a $31M cap hit in 2019 if the team trades him. There would have to be a clause that guarantees that much money to him by the Vikings in 2019 in the event he was traded, or something hokie like that. I don't know where to read player contracts, but I have seen standard NFL player contracts posted on the Internet and read through them. From there, it is just looking at the bits that were changed from the standard contract language. This is all academic since we know they are not trading him. It is simply something that was far enough off that I thought it should be corrected before it spreads too far. Back to the topic of Trent WIlliams. I would still love to see him on the team. I still haven't scrutinized his play in the last three years. I hope the Vikings are doing their diligence if there is any chance that he would be available to them. Above average LTs are hard to come find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I'm more interested in drafting a long term starter at Tackle. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 57 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: I'm more interested in drafting a long term starter at Tackle. But that's just me. I am too, but say we only give up a 1st round pick he more than likely will be better than anyone we draft. Hell, why not go all in these next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 How would he look? Expensive. And old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 8 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: I am too, but say we only give up a 1st round pick he more than likely will be better than anyone we draft. Hell, why not go all in these next two years. The Vikings 1st rounder next year would most likely be 20 or below, ideally 28-32. So really it is not all that great for Washington, it would have to be much more than just one 1st rounder. And in that pick we could not get Andrew Thomas or Trey Adams, maybe Jedrick Willis if he has a fine year but he does not fit the system, or Walker Little if he plays well but he would probably be gone also by that point with a great year. Or Tristian Wirfs if he plays out of his mind but any of those guys I doubt they get to 7 Pro Bowls in 9 years. Maybe Thomas but even that is a stretch. I agree we should go all in but hard to with that limited cap space they have. Not sure the injury situation for Trent Williams either but apparently it could be pretty bad if he is this upset with Washington and how they have handled him. The freaking Saints have Ramczyk, Armstead, Peat and McCoy. All super talented offensive lineman especially the first three and all pretty damn young. Wish the Vikings were in that situation but they simply are not. Would be awesome to have a great OL talent on the team though but doubt it happens this year or in the near future. O'Neill could develop but I do not think his ceiling is that high other than just an ok starter. Bradbury maybe he will be super elite but will see, I hope he is not just another John Sullivan who is ok at center but nothing great at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, Ozzy said: The Vikings 1st rounder next year would most likely be 20 or below, ideally 28-32. So really it is not all that great for Washington, it would have to be much more than just one 1st rounder. And in that pick we could not get Andrew Thomas or Trey Adams, maybe Jedrick Willis if he has a fine year but he does not fit the system, or Walker Little if he plays well but he would probably be gone also by that point with a great year. Or Tristian Wirfs if he plays out of his mind but any of those guys I doubt they get to 7 Pro Bowls in 9 years. Maybe Thomas but even that is a stretch. I agree we should go all in but hard to with that limited cap space they have. Not sure the injury situation for Trent Williams either but apparently it could be pretty bad if he is this upset with Washington and how they have handled him. The freaking Saints have Ramczyk, Armstead, Peat and McCoy. All super talented offensive lineman especially the first three and all pretty damn young. Wish the Vikings were in that situation but they simply are not. Would be awesome to have a great OL talent on the team though but doubt it happens this year or in the near future. O'Neill could develop but I do not think his ceiling is that high other than just an ok starter. Bradbury maybe he will be super elite but will see, I hope he is not just another John Sullivan who is ok at center but nothing great at all. I'd be content with a Sullivan type at center at this point. Sullivan was very good for us, if not for injuries, might have been better long term. I think Bradbury has exceptional upside and will be a key player to build around up front. O'Neill is solid. Where the Vikes needs help the most long term is OG. Don't see how Williams helps us there, unless Reiff moves inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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