2020 Draft Thread

[y2lamanaki]

53 minutes ago, JIllg said:

I like the idea, but not for our current personnel group. It's hard to find enough snaps to justify both a (stupendously) highly paid fullback and two tight ends that need to get fed at the same time. 

It's hard to not agree with your post philosophically, but the guy who would have to find those snaps is the same guy who would be willing to take on the problem by drafting a tight end with a first round pick. 

I'm not advocating for a 2nd TE with a first round pick. But I would not be unhappy with one given who would be the one making this decision. 

As is, Juice has played less than 40% of offensive snaps in 2 of his 3 seasons here. That's greater than 60% of the snaps where a 2nd TE could potentially play. It would mean a lot more 12- and 22-personnel, but I don't think that would be a problem for Shanahan schematically or creatively. Especially if the TE has the same kind of versatility as Kittle to line up inline, in the slot, or in the backfield (basically a Ross Dwelley with far superior skills). 

Think about it- you can have Kittle, Mostert, Juice, Deebo, and this rookie TE on the field at the same time. Any of four guys on the field might run the ball (Kittle, Mostert, Deebo, Juice) and any of the five could be receiving threats. Mostert and Juice could be lined up in the backfield followed by a series of shifts resulting in Deebo being the lone player in the backfield, and you still have no idea what play is coming.

Shanahan would love that versatility and could easily design a full section of the playbook to take advantage of this grouping. 

Again, I'm not arguing for a first round tight end. As I noted earlier, I'd prefer a number of other options. But I do believe the offense needs more weapons, and if Shanahan sees value in a 2nd TE with his first pick, then I trust he will make it work.

[oldman9er]

14 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I do believe the offense needs more weapons, and if Shanahan sees value in a 2nd TE with his first pick, then I trust he will make it work.

What is your overall gut feeling on Hurd? think he will ever be a healthy, useful option as a WR or flex TE? 

[y2lamanaki]

3 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

What is your overall gut feeling on Hurd? think he will ever be a healthy, useful option as a WR or flex TE? 

I'm excited to see what he can do, but all I have is one preseason performance against backups and XFL players to go on. I liked the pick and his potential versatility, though. Certainly he can't do much worse than our fourth, fifth, and sixth receivers did this year. Even if that is his career height, he should still give us better snaps than James, Pettis, and Goodwin have provided. My 2020 hope for him is that he can take Bourne's current role.

[oldman9er]

8 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I'm excited to see what he can do, but all I have is one preseason performance against backups and XFL players to go on. I liked the pick and his potential versatility, though. Certainly he can't do much worse than our fourth, fifth, and sixth receivers did this year. Even if that is his career height, he should still give us better snaps than James, Pettis, and Goodwin have provided. My 2020 hope for him is that he can take Bourne's current role.

Bourne's current role, meaning, clutch dude to target on 3rd down or RZ passes? 

also remotely wondered whether James ever got a fair shot to impress as a WR, but admit that would be an unexpected thing, really.

Anyway, 'm looking at Hurd as a who-knows-wild-card that I have no trust in. So, we either bring back Manny back ..(yay), draft a WR early.. (eh), or bring in a different vet FA that could be the WR1 (least preferred).  

Come back, Manny! 

[757-NINER]

3 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

also remotely wondered whether James ever got a fair shot to impress as a WR, but admit that would be an unexpected thing, really.

My hope is that when we move on from Goodwin (probably this off-season), James should get more looks@WR. I said when he was drafted, I liked him more than Pettis. He reminds me alot of Sanders and I think he could eventually grow into that type of WR if the staff believes in his abilities. He fits that skillset and type of WR. So much so it wouldn't surprise me if they chose not to persue Sanders as a free agent and let the combination of James/Taylor try to replicate his production. Might not happen but again, it wouldn't surprise me, as it would feee up money that could go elsewhere. He produced in the very limited targets/snaps he received in the offense so I'm hopeful as he gains more strength, he'll get more opportunities. 

 

[y2lamanaki]

13 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Anyway, 'm looking at Hurd as a who-knows-wild-card that I have no trust in. So, we either bring back Manny back ..(yay), draft a WR early.. (eh), or bring in a different vet FA that could be the WR1 (least preferred).  

Come back, Manny! 

I'd say I'm more than 'eh' on the prospect of drafting a WR because there are a number I do really like, similar to this past year right around where we got Deebo. But otherwise, you and I are in complete agreement here. That's my preferred order of addressing WR and basically my exact view on Hurd. 

[y2lamanaki]

3 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

My hope is that when we move on from Goodwin (probably this off-season), James should get more looks@WR. I said when he was drafted, I liked him more than Pettis.

I was in the same boat - I thought Richie James could be the better player than Pettis. I'd love to see him get a real opportunity at WR. But, this felt like a year where it could have easily happened for him. He's made some huge plays when in, but for whatever reason - he hasn't shown to be worthy of a main rotational role with Bourne. He has surpassed Pettis, though, which is something. 

[Forge]

19 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

My hope is that when we move on from Goodwin (probably this off-season), James should get more looks@WR. I said when he was drafted, I liked him more than Pettis. He reminds me alot of Sanders and I think he could eventually grow into that type of WR if the staff believes in his abilities. He fits that skillset and type of WR. So much so it wouldn't surprise me if they chose not to persue Sanders as a free agent and let the combination of James/Taylor try to replicate his production. Might not happen but again, it wouldn't surprise me, as it would feee up money that could go elsewhere. He produced in the very limited targets/snaps he received in the offense so I'm hopeful as he gains more strength, he'll get more opportunities. 

 

I don't even expect James to be on the roster next season, tbh. 

[757-NINER]

17 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't even expect James to be on the roster next season, tbh. 

Really?? I could see that for Pettis but I don't see where James' s stock has diminished. For whatever reason, he hasn't gotten the snaps most felt he deserved but I think there's big potential there. Stranger things have happened but I think James could really thrive in this league if given a real opportunity. Why he wasn't given more of a shot@WR is probably one of the biggest mysteries of our regular season. 

[Forge]

17 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Really?? I could see that for Pettis but I don't see where James' s stock has diminished. For whatever reason, he hasn't gotten the snaps most felt he deserved but I think there's big potential there. Stranger things have happened but I think James could really thrive in this league if given a real opportunity. Why he wasn't given more of a shot@WR is probably one of the biggest mysteries of our regular season. 

Unless Pettis is traded, I think the team will be far more reticent to cut  Pettis than James. 

I'd be more inclined to think that James would stick around if he were getting any real offensive snaps, but he's not. That speaks volumes to me. And he's not a particularly good returner...he's okay, but not special. I'm assuming that we re-sign Manny. So Manny / Deebo / Bourne are almost locks (Bourne is an erfa I think...maybe an RFA, but he should be back). Taylor will probably make the squad health permitting (also probably the better punt returner anyway), and then Hurd. That leaves a 6th receiver spot open for Pettis / James, and I simply think that the team will gamble on Pettis more so than James. 

[John232]

James hasn't been particularly impressive. I think he definitely has a chance to make the roster, but he hasn't displayed any real high quality traits. He's sort of a jack of all trades, master of none and then has some holes too. I like him, but we're also just a deeper unit now with the emergence of Deebo, Sanders and the progression of Bourne.  He's a good example of an NFL receiver that's going to probably be cut. Not a bad player, just not quite good enough to overcome some of the other guys on our roster, assuming they're healthy at the start of next year. 

Personally, I love Hurd and I think the staff does too. They were pretty effusive in their praise all TC and he showed in out preseason. Not a lot to go on and it's coach speak, but I think his versatility and physicality are going to be a premium for this staff going forward. 

Also,  I don't think he was given a fake medical redshirt year, I think the back issue was legitimately concerning and they just wanted to play it safe with him as we did have depth this year (in the sense that a Louis Murphy wasn't going to be seeing a ton of snaps). I'm not concerned with his durability, sometimes guys just get injured they're rookie year and a back injury is the kind of nagging injury that can just end a year, even if it's not severe. Akin to Hammy or turf toe. I also loved Hurd as a prospect and I think he has an incredible ceiling, especially in our scheme. 


 

[757-NINER]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

Unless Pettis is traded, I think the team will be far more reticent to cut  Pettis than James. 

I'd be more inclined to think that James would stick around if he were getting any real offensive snaps, but he's not. That speaks volumes to me. And he's not a particularly good returner...he's okay, but not special. I'm assuming that we re-sign Manny. So Manny / Deebo / Bourne are almost locks (Bourne is an erfa I think...maybe an RFA, but he should be back). Taylor will probably make the squad health permitting (also probably the better punt returner anyway), and then Hurd. That leaves a 6th receiver spot open for Pettis / James, and I simply think that the team will gamble on Pettis more so than James. 

Fair enough. I DO think Shanny likes James alot because of his versatility and his fit as a 'gadget' guy but from a technical standpoint, he still has room to grow. This off-season will be very telling for him. I think he's made the most of his limited touches and I think he has a chance next year to see a increased role. Others may not see it and that's fine but the more I analyze that position group, the more I get the sense that it will be younger guys having the opportunity to step up next year....including James.

I look at the previous off-season/TC and how the WRs corps was constructed. Both Kyle & Lynch seemed very much content on rolling with a very young group. I do remember Kyle expressing to the media that he was waiting for someone in the group to 'step up' and seize the opportunity during pre-season but I think they both saw the vast potential in the young talent we had. Fast forward to the first 5-6 weeks of the season and it was pretty evident that though talented, this young core hadn't displayed enough consistency to be trusted on their own. And the team getting off to such a phenomenal start to this season meant we couldn't wait for them to find their way. We needed to help speed along that process. So they inserted a accomplished vet like Sanders into the mix and it instantly brought stability to the group. Sanders is a pro's pro and I think his wisdom and guidance was sorely needed. His presence clearly influenced guys like Deebo and Bourne, as both picked up their play and started making plays consistently. Catching the ball...consistently. 

Now all that being said, I was never really sold on the idea Sanders would be with the team beyond this season. Of course, I wouldn't be mad at all if he was indeed brought back. His play has definitely made it hard to argue against letting him just walk. But I always felt like the offense was sort of geared towards the young talent at the position. I feel Hurd will be a big part of that. As much of a question mark as he is, it was telling to me that we went after Sanu first. Then when he wasn't available, they moved on to Sanders. Sanu fit that physical, tough profile of a slot WR I felt they had envisioned for Hurd.

And though one could argue that by themselves, the duo of Bourne and Samuels hasn't accomplished much of anything, this season's hopeful playoff/SB run will only groom and mature these youngins for the future. And the invaluable experience gain from high stakes post-season football will allow them to take the next step in their development next season, and be ready to lead the group in 2020. So the presence of a 'vet' WR may be somewhat overstated. 

I've said before that I believe we have invested in the WR position enough over the last two years that I feel going after another starter via free agency or with another Day 1 or 2 pick would be a waste for me. Now of course the play or lack thereof of Pettis may have changed my perception slightly. But I feel as though Shanny will give him every opportunity this off-season to right his wrongs so to speak. You have Deebo looking more and more like he'll be ready to step up into that WR1 role next year. And one could argue Bourne has stepped up and could be in line for that role opposite him if he continues to ascend. You factor in Hurd and Taylor's availability next year and a guy like James evolving into more of a receiving option and its not out of the realm of possibility that those six with maybe a speed WR thrown in there could be more than enough come next September. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by 757-NINER

[oldman9er]

Was just lounging my way thru the Senior Bowl invite list, and my eyes got big.

https://www.seniorbowl.com/the-game/accepted-invites/

I thought Chase Claypool was a Jr and no sure thing to declare, but it looks like he was a senior and has. 

Imagine he and Kittle causing havoc on the field together. 

[Chrissooner49er]

3 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Was just lounging my way thru the Senior Bowl invite list, and my eyes got big.

https://www.seniorbowl.com/the-game/accepted-invites/

I thought Chase Claypool was a Jr and no sure thing to declare, but it looks like he was a senior and has. 

Imagine he and Kittle causing havoc on the field together. 

Let me on that bandwagon! Move over, old man! Claypool makes me drool! We’re not likely to get Lamb, he’ll go too high. Claypool could be there and he would be a great consolation prize. 

[oldman9er]

Not that we expected otherwise or have a shot, but