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Vladimir L

Daniel Jones is looking better than Haskins

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Here is a good trick.

  • You imagine he is going to throw 32 TDs with no picks in 16 games this year. (based on his preseason)
  • You pretend that does not mean he will also have 48 fumbles. (based on his preseason)

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2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Has @Gmen surpassed @aceinthehouse as biggest homer in FF History? So Jones and the 2019 Draft Class is a home run hit after pre season. Smh.... the prematurity of these claims are surreal. Even after a season is premature but we haven’t even played a game yet!

Classic delay tactic. Do you remember debates you had on FF a year ago? Of course not. We live in a 24 hour news cycle. So just kick the can down the road until everyone forgets. Let’s disregard that you’ve been completely wrong about Jones to this point. Props to guys like Bucky Brooks who can actually man up and own it. 

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1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/1166142285698015235

 

@Gmen You might want to put the HOF Jones on hold. He's only the 4th best. But buy Easton Stick stock.

Jones got knocked for a pair of fumbles. But any statistic that implies Jones hasn’t been the most impressive rookie quarterback this preseason is disingenuous. He has the highest passer rating by a rookie since 2006. Only 5 incompletions, and one was a drop. Let’s not kid ourselves. 

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20 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Jones got knocked for a pair of fumbles. But any statistic that implies Jones hasn’t been the most impressive rookie quarterback this preseason is disingenuous. He has the highest passer rating by a rookie since 2006. Only 5 incompletions, and one was a drop. Let’s not kid ourselves. 

Jones has shown he can play pitch and catch and you can't be a good QB without it. However, no one has tried anything complicated yet so it's really premature to gloat. You can be optimistic but many QBs have looked good in the preseason and turned into DeShone Kizer and Brady Quinn.

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Remember when kizer looked awesome and Watson struggled in preseason? What great foreshadowing of their careers

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8 hours ago, Midtown_Doornail said:

Saying anything definitively now is premature.  But, he has shown skills you just can't fake and...

1)  All of the people saying "hold your horses" are the same people that 1 second after the Giants announced the pick at the draft, before even 1 practice, much less preseason game destroyed Gettleman and the Giants.  Now we're supposed to calm down and not jump to conclusions?

2)  Are also the same people that would be laughing even more and destroying Gettleman even more if Jones were struggling.

 

The point about the preseason is that success there means nothing in predicting reg season success.  Because of the talent gap present and simplicity of the schemes used.   Struggles against preseason D’s reliably tells us the player isn’t ready yet to succeed.  It doesn’t mean a career is lost in year 1 but it’s far more meaningful as a predictive tool than success is.  

Struggles against preseason D’s mean a guy isn’t ready to start week 1 and succeed.   But the opposite isn’t true - success doesn’t mean a player is ready to step in & succeed - the list of the most successful preseason QB’s each year shows this in spades.  This concept is well supported - but many casual fans don’t appreciate the distinction.    The fact #2 is being posted highlights this.   

Edited by Broncofan

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(Honest disclaimer: I am a Giants fan)

"Struggles against preseason D’s reliably tells us the player isn’t ready yet to succeed."

So, I do agree with this point. The topic of the thread is DJ vs Haskins. To that point, Haskins _has_ struggled against preseason defenses, while DJ has not. So, at the very least, shouldn't we be able to say that Haskins is not ready to start, and Dj might be?

Then if we take that to be true, can't we then admit that Gettlemen made the right decision in drafting Jones over Haskins? Isn't the QB who _might_ be ready to play against NFL starters worth more than the QB who definitely isn't?

Also, I think it's true that if DJ was playing the way Haskins has played, it would be used as validation for the criticism Gettleman has faced. I don't see why Haskins not playing well can't be used as vindication for the pick of Daniel Jones. If only in response to those who said that Haskins should have been picked in Jones stead.

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7 hours ago, Gmen said:

Let’s disregard that you’ve been completely wrong about Jones to this point. Props to guys like Bucky Brooks who can actually man up and own it. 

Things are trending in the right direction for Jones but nothing has been definitively proven or disproven to this point.

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14 hours ago, showtime said:

How did Haskins not beat out Keenum?  Keenum sucks. 

Is it because Haskins isn't ready, is playing poorly or the head coach is just stupid (like when the Browns started Taylor over Mayfield)?

Because rookie QBs usually stink it up their first season. That's just how the NFL works. It's not easy coming into your first training camp and winning the starting gig regardless of the competition. Even lowly NFL vets have the huge advantage of experience against rookies when coming into these camp competitions. They can grasp NFL offenses quicker, are adjusted to the speed of the NFL game etc.

I think we expect too much from these guys too soon. 

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Nobody will ever pass me as the biggest Homer. 😁

But even I know preseason means didly.

You have to wait for live fire during the regular season, to truly know what you have in a player.

For example: D. Guice

I just knew he would be very good, then BAM! Got hurt last preseason & was done.

Do I still think he'll be very good? Yes, but I won't know for sure till it's against 1st stringers.

Same with Sweat & Haskins.

Daniel Jones needs to be successful vs starting units.

Not grocery baggers & UPS drivers.

Nothing wrong with being excited for your guy & everyone will know what these guys will bring, soon.

But touting Jones over Haskins in meaningless games is ridiculous.

Haskins is starting pre season game 4 vs Ravens.

If he's 26/30 for 459 yards & 5 TD's, I will be excited. But it confirms nothing, in the grand scheme of things.

Same should go for Daniel Jones.

And btw...Jones was the #6 pick in the draft. He SHOULD be better than Haskins. Shouldn't he?

So I wouldn't be touting any horn, just yet.

Besides, the true test will be when they face off 1 on 1. But we may not even find that out, till next season.

So right now, we're in a wait & see mode.

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20 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Daniel Jones needs to be successful vs starting units.

Not grocery baggers & UPS drivers.

Jones did play against starting units against the Bengals.  He got pressured by Geno Atkins multiple times and was throwing against starting safeties Shawn Williams and Jesse Bates. In fact, the throw he made after getting clobbered by Carl Lawson was to Darius Slayton (a rookie 7th rounder) over Willie Jackson. I think that counts as starters...

 

34 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

And btw...Jones was the #6 pick in the draft. He SHOULD be better than Haskins. Shouldn't he?

As to your second point: YES! He should be better!!! But only if the Giants org didn't make a massive earth shattering mistake when they drafted him! And that is not what everyone, here and elsewhere, said after the pick!

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40 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Besides, the true test will be when they face off 1 on 1. But we may not even find that out, till next season.

So right now, we're in a wait & see mode.

If Haskins isn’t on the field gaining experience in a meaningless week 16 game, that would be serious cause for concern. 

I can see how it goes down. Ereck Flowers whiffs on a block, leading to a sack / fumble. Landon Collins bites on a play action and gets beat for a touchdown on the very next play. 

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1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

Besides, the true test will be when they face off 1 on 1.

Just curious => Wentz or Dak?

Because I like this unit of measurement. 

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14 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Just curious => Wentz or Dak?

Because I like this unit of measurement. 

Tough call for me....

I think Wentz is better, but can't stay healthy.

Or should I say....was better.

2 back-to-back seasons of injury & zero playoff experience?

Imo, Dak has the edge at the moment. But it's still early.

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