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2019 WR Corps


incognito_man

If you had to pick one  

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  1. 1. Who do you pick?



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Just now, incognito_man said:

this is self-contradictory is it not?

well he's definitely not breaking out this year, and he seems to be hurt, not injured.

I still think he has some untapped talent.  he also has to be better in his current condition and state than he has been.

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Just now, skibrett15 said:

well he's definitely not breaking out this year, and he seems to be hurt, not injured.

I still think he has some untapped talent.  he also has to be better in his current condition and state than he has been.

he's not a good WR for 35yr old Rodgers right now IMO. His biggest strength looks like Rodgers' weakness currently.

 

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3 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

So, this WR/TE group is still in shambles.  Anyone and Everyone is playing significant snaps.  Kumerow is still out there, Lazard is doing whatever he's doing, MVS is losing a lot of snaps to both...

Allison is playing 66% of snaps and that's #2 on the team and he's being used like a RAC gadget guy, Marcedes Lewis is playing over 50% of snaps and more than any 3rd WR.  MVS played 11 snaps - guy must be hurt?  So much for a "clear breakout player who had one of the best rookie seasons ever"

 

This is a clear a sign as any of there being no good options at the #2 behind Adams.  Jimmy made a couple plays but only saw 4 targets, and couldn't complete the process on that EZ target.

 

By snaps we played 1.4 TE,  2.3 WR, 1 RB, 0.2 FB vs Carolina.

If you're only playing 2ish WRs, you really don't need a great slot player.  What you need is a very good #2 WR or a very good TE.  Something this team desperately lacks.

Luckily this is an easy position group to find value in both FA and draft. With the way Gute has overhauled the RB room, DB room and EDGE room in 1 off-season, wouldn't surprise me to see 3 new pass catchers in here next year.

Doesn't help us this year, but my hope if LaFleur can find a way to get the RBs back in the pass game now that Adams is back. The last two weeks when we've thrown them out wide, they're getting a DB, not LB anymore. If that's how teams play us we have to figure out where else on the field we can exploit and with who. 

I'm also hoping the MVS thing is more a limited usage due to injury and not performance. Hopefully two weeks off gets him right. Still he's been winning deep Rodgers hasn't dropped a dime to him like he was earlier.

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also from PackersWire

Sternberger shows up: Rookie tight end Jace Sternberger has likely earned himself a legitimate role over the final six games of 2019. He proved capable as a blocker in a variety of roles on Sunday. As the game went on, he looked more and more comfortable. It looked like the Packers were setting up some kind of action play for Sternberger, but it never arrived. Watch for one coming out of the bye. There will be creative ways to get him running down field and in the open, especially if he keeps blocking effectively.

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45 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

also from PackersWire

Sternberger shows up: Rookie tight end Jace Sternberger has likely earned himself a legitimate role over the final six games of 2019. He proved capable as a blocker in a variety of roles on Sunday. As the game went on, he looked more and more comfortable. It looked like the Packers were setting up some kind of action play for Sternberger, but it never arrived. Watch for one coming out of the bye. There will be creative ways to get him running down field and in the open, especially if he keeps blocking effectively.

The amount of playing time that Sternberger got was easily the most surprising thing about this game. Until then, there had been no indication that Sternberger would be a significant part of the team's plans this season. The fact that he appeared to block competently was a pleasant surprise. 

Sternberger's playing time could mean a couple of things. One is that the coaches may be acknowledging that the Jimmy Graham show is just not good enough at the TE position. Another is that Robert Tonyan's injury may be more serious than the team has let on. When Tonyan got hurt, there was speculation that he might not even miss a game, and now he has missed several. 

I like it that Matt LaFleur is looking for ways for this team to evolve as the season progresses. The offensive scheme appears to have some flexibility, and he is showing flexibility with personnel as well. 

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1 hour ago, Shanedorf said:

also from PackersWire

Sternberger shows up: Rookie tight end Jace Sternberger has likely earned himself a legitimate role over the final six games of 2019. He proved capable as a blocker in a variety of roles on Sunday. As the game went on, he looked more and more comfortable. It looked like the Packers were setting up some kind of action play for Sternberger, but it never arrived. Watch for one coming out of the bye. There will be creative ways to get him running down field and in the open, especially if he keeps blocking effectively.

Been talking about this kid for a while. Time to break tendencies and get him down the seam when he's supposed to be blocking. 

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12 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

expecting more than 1-2 plays per game out of sternberger is very wishful thinking.

 

I can't see the current roster winning playoff games without a top 10 defense or unless we face a defense that we can simply run the ball against consistently.

Take those dark sunglasses off my friend to see the light.  We'll need a little better than average defense, special teams that don't kill us and our offense using  their backs in the running/receiving mode.  Take care of the ball, score in the red zone  ... golden.

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2 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

expecting more than 1-2 plays per game out of sternberger is very wishful thinking.

 

I can't see the current roster winning playoff games without a top 10 defense or unless we face a defense that we can simply run the ball against consistently.

QB > skill positions

Aaron plays like he did in the 1st half vs Minny, Dallas or weeks 4-8 we can win against anyone. 

He plays more like a game manager like he has for moments this year, agree we don't have enough playmakers outside of Jones or Adams to help us.

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16 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

expecting more than 1-2 plays per game out of sternberger is very wishful thinking.

 

I can't see the current roster winning playoff games without a top 10 defense or unless we face a defense that we can simply run the ball against consistently.

He played 15 snaps this past game; do you mean 1-2 plays where he is the playmaker?

Weve won 8 games so far with one of the leagues toughest schedules. I don’t know what else this team can do to prove they can win playoff matchups.

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Stupidly long time lurker here, thought I should make a post on this. To me, our WR situation both going into this season and somewhat even has it has progressed, has been one of (if not the) the most intriguing positional situation we have had since I started watching the sport in 2002. It's far from perfect, but I also think we absolutely made the correct call in addressing our multiple other holes n the roster than focusing here in the draft, especially early on - during the offseason, I had a rule to immediately stop reading any mock that had a WR in round 1 because it was a red flag that whomever was writing it wasn't actually aware of our roster that much at all. I felt more or less the same about round 2 and kind of even 3, but if a slot/Swiss army knife type of guy with serious talent was mentioned, I knew they were at least paying attention.

Here is my take on where we are at WR right now:

No. 1 Receiver - nothing to say here, we have one of the absolute best in the league. Antonio Brown for my money is the best WR of the last decade (before he lost his mind), but if Davante had a half step extra of pace I really, genuinely think he would be at that same level in my opinion. Even without the extra half step, he is absolutely phenomenal and no questions need to be asked whatsoever. 

 

No 2. Receivers - we don't quite have one, but I think Lazard really is showing that he very much could be a very good fit here. He's still young, raw in some aspects, and is working his way in, and I don't think he will establish himself as a real, legit second WR before the end of the season, but unless his play drops off dramatically he will at worst be able to compete for this and take the role if nobody else is performing. I'm heavily sold on him though, and really think we are 1-2 years off him being a consistent 70+ catch, 1,000 yard calibre player. I also love how violently he plays the position, which is very important to how we are looking to establish ourselves in a more menacing manner under MLF than McCarthy. Plus he is smart, and has Rogers trust.

St. Brown really did impress me toward the back end of last season, and I think it is one of the more underrated shames of this season that he is on IR. Now I wouldn't be banking anything way all on him getting here, but I think he really has the potential to - that is a great thing to have down the depth chart.

 

No. 3/4 Receivers - it's a bit of a shame that MVS hasn't fully kicked on this year, and I don't think he has it in him to consistently get open and catch enough balls to be playing a whole lot of snaps. That said, he's supposedly a great guy around the team, is an incredible athlete which helps for special teams etc... and more over, even though he doesn't catch many, he is a ****ing weapon to have 'down the depth chart'! I'm not sure he sees a second contract unless we get great value, but he is faster than anyone that can match him for size, bigger than anyone who can match him for size, will absolutely work his opposing number to bits. Not only that, but he has 5 catches of 4-+ yards this season, tied with Amari Cooper and Mike Williams for second most in the league (and first place Mike Evans is only one ahead, on 6) - I don't care who you are, even if you stop him for 0 catches he has still always got to be a scary enough guy for defensive coordinators to see come into the pre-snap huddle.

  • Admittedly some guys like Patrick Peterson (or Kevin King now that I think of it!) may be able to match him for both size and pace... but it's an extremely short list, and most of the guys on it are bonafide no. 1 CBs. Meaning with Davante on the field, they'll rarely ever be sent anywhere near MVS. The guy is a bit of a match up nightmare in that sense, even if he doesn't always make the most of the size advantage.

I'm moving on to my man crush now in Jake Kumerow. I love this guy more than Eddie Lacy loves cheesecake. No he is never going to be a no 1 receiver - there's a good chance he never cracks even 40 catches in a season in his career - he is not a high ceiling player. But he's smart, he finds holes and pockets which is something Rodgers is outrageous at finding, and he has the hands and toughness to bring them in. He gets castigated for being slow for the position, and while this would likely see some of the top guys smother him out of a game without much difficulty (e.g. he will never be a consistent no. 1 or 2), when you're the fourth or fifth guy on the chart you can get away with that by excelling in other areas, as Kumerow does. His importance stretches further than just that though, and he is a testament to hard work, dedication and patiently making incremental improvements to your game a bit like John Kuhn in his earlier years. He's no spring chicken, turning 28 a few weeks after the Superbowl, but he fought tooth and nail for nearly four full years to get the first catch of his career in week 13 of last season, has a bit of a veteran sensibility because of this, has Rodgers trust, contributes on special teams . Guys like this never win you championships outright, but championship winning teams typically have guys like this peppered around the roster, and while I love Gute's high risk/high reward approach to the guys he drafts across the team, having a few guys like this to offset is a big help.

Then we've got ESB who I honestly think has the highest ceiling than anyone bar Davante (and maybe even more than him) - his movement and some of his catches on the back end of last year near the sidelines reminded quite a bit of Jordy, but the sample size is tiny and the injury was a major setback. In terms of how we look at our roster during this offseason, I think he is basically locked in as the 5th/6th guy on the chart - basically guaranteed to be on the roster, but also guaranteed to not be any higher than that. He does however have the tools to quickly move up, we just have zero idea if it will happen or not.

Receivers Just Filling Roster Spots for 2019 - Allison - meh, average depth guy, too injury prone but hooks up with Rodgers OK - gone after this year. Ryan Grant has yet to catch a ball, I doubt he gets more than 10 tops this year, and is gone in the offseason - bit of an odd signing. Sheppard I don't have much hopes for either.

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So, for a TLDR I think we should look for a versatile guy to give us something different and exploit gaps in the middle etc next year, ideally with the ability to line up in a few different places and maybe even get involved in the odd trick run play - if someone exceptional is there in the first then I wouldn't be too against it, but ideally I think 2nd-3rd round might make more sense. If we do that and hit, I think we'll got the most exciting group for almost a decade, with a depth chart a bit like this:

1. Adams [tonnes of catches, yards, first downs and TDs]
2. Lazard/Rookie [big power receiver who can bully DBs + shiftier guy who can find make the bigger guys miss/find lots of pockets for the rookie)
3. Rookie/Lazard
4. MVS [one of the best big play threats in the entire league that is not a no 1 or 2 WR]
5. Kumerow [unspectacular, but smart, rounded, solid, has Rodgers trust and sets a very firm 'you must be this good to get snaps' ahead of Jake standard for our developing players]  
6. St. Brown [has the who I think can very quickly get to no. 4 and could well be battling with Lazard/new guy]

 

Either way, it's still 2019 so sorry for getting ahead of myself! As of today:

1. Adams
2. Lazard
3. MVS/Kumerow
4. Kumerow/MVS
5. Allison

Edited by Billy86
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@Billy86   Interesting how you like Kumerow so much more than Allison, who is 1" shorter and two years younger, but they are similar types. I'd say that going forward the team will keep one of these and I don't know which. Allison was higher on the depth chart (a positive for him), but seems to be injured more often (a negative).

With his athleticism, I still want to see ESB as a slot receiver, which at his size is not really a traditional slot (like Cobb, for instance).

One advantage the Packers have regarding a possible high-pick WR in 2020 is that (apart for ESB) they have a better idea now of what the guys on the roster can do. Their thinking is already showing up on the field, with Kumerow getting double the snaps then MVS, and Lazard is getting more than Kumerow...........not bad for a guy that started on the PS.

I don't know if Lazard can rise as high as a no.2 WR but it isn't impossible. His pedestrian 40 time suggests he can't, but why does he often look like he is playing faster than he times ?

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