2019 WR Corps

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, spilltray said:

He was buried in the rotation. Regardless of who the qb was, he was getting less reps not more.

Not getting reps in preseason means you're higher in the rotation, not lower.

[Cakeshoppe]

yeah EQ was definitely subbed out of PS games before Lazard even went in. He was rotating in as the second group with the starting offense, along with Kumerow.

[Greg C.]

5 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

yeah EQ was definitely subbed out of PS games before Lazard even went in. He was rotating in as the second group with the starting offense, along with Kumerow.

Yes, EQ was clearly ahead of Lazard, who was on the roster bubble. Shepherd was too. EQ was in the mix for the 4/5 spot in the rotation, along with Kumerow. But he didn't do nearly as much as Kumerow in the preseason and was probably at #5 by the time he got hurt. It was not a good preseason for him. That's not to say he couldn't have played well in the regular season and established himself as the #4 or even higher. It's also possible he could've been passed up by Lazard. 

[spilltray]

He was at absolute best #4, probably #5, maybe #6. I definitely consider that on the bubble. He wasn't showing a step forward. He wasn't someone they were giving light work he's too raw for that. Starters and vets get less reps. Not 2nd year WR who haven't really shown anything yet.

[Packerraymond]

4 hours ago, spilltray said:

He was at absolute best #4, probably #5, maybe #6. I definitely consider that on the bubble. He wasn't showing a step forward. He wasn't someone they were giving light work he's too raw for that. Starters and vets get less reps. Not 2nd year WR who haven't really shown anything yet.

So Aaron Rodgers is lying when he said his camp was great and it was quiet because he had already made the team essentially?

[Gopackgonerd]

I dont know how you can see what he did last year and not put that kid on the team. We would be making a huge mistake doing that with his upside and physical traits. He even made a Special teams touchdown in the preseason so it's not like he did nothing.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Gopackgonerd

[pacman5252]

17 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said:

I dont know how you can see what he did last year and not put that kid on the team. We would be making a huge mistake doing that with his upside and physical traits. He even made a Special teams touchdown in the preseason so it's not like he did nothing.

He had like 20 catches and 300 yards. Let’s not act like he was really showing out. He was given reps due to injury, not because he earned it. I hope EQ comes back next year and proves me wrong but It’s not a coincidence that AR’s efficiency numbers are all up and throw always are down. If EQ was healthy, with what he showed last year and in the preseason, he’d be on the fringe.

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

He had like 20 catches and 300 yards. Let’s not act like he was really showing out. He was given reps due to injury, not because he earned it. I hope EQ comes back next year and proves me wrong but It’s not a coincidence that AR’s efficiency numbers are all up and throw always are down. If EQ was healthy, with what he showed last year and in the preseason, he’d be on the fringe.

Stop making sense. And I do think he was a roster lock this year, partially due to the lack of talent at the position to begin with, but the fact that we're talking about him as a No. 2 just shows how desperate this team is for at least one if not two new good WRs. 

[Gopackgonerd]

5 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

He had like 20 catches and 300 yards. Let’s not act like he was really showing out. He was given reps due to injury, not because he earned it. I hope EQ comes back next year and proves me wrong but It’s not a coincidence that AR’s efficiency numbers are all up and throw always are down. If EQ was healthy, with what he showed last year and in the preseason, he’d be on the fringe.

I mean the guy showed sparks in his game that got you excited for next year from last year. Im Not saying he's starting or he had an amazing year last year but I doubt they let go of that talent. 

[Spartacus]

The one thing I will say about ESB is I think he would do wonders in the slot for this years team but maybe I'm off base. 

I dont think he is a #2 though.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Spartacus

[Mazrimiv]

I doubt we'll ever feel good about anyone on the current payroll not named Adam's filling the WR2 role, let alone WR1.  The best of those guys are adequate WR3's or good WR4's.  Nothing more.  I get the idea of spending multiple picks at WR in the later rounds and thinking one of those picks should pan out.  It didn't work.  I feel like I must be missing someone, but I can't think of a single WR added outside of RD2 that has panned out for GB since Driver.  That was 20 years ago.  It's well past time to spend some premium resources at WR.  If that's in FA, that's fine.  Otherwise, that needs to be a Thu-Fri pick in the upcoming draft.  So much for the theory that the team had learned it's lessen during Favre's later years, and would never leave the WR cubbard so bare for Rodgers.

[Zycho32]

3 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

I doubt we'll ever feel good about anyone on the current payroll not named Adam's filling the WR2 role, let alone WR1.  The best of those guys are adequate WR3's or good WR4's.  Nothing more.  I get the idea of spending multiple picks at WR in the later rounds and thinking one of those picks should pan out.  It didn't work.  I feel like I must be missing someone, but I can't think of a single WR added outside of RD2 that has panned out for GB since Driver.  That was 20 years ago.  It's well past time to spend some premium resources at WR.  If that's in FA, that's fine.  Otherwise, that needs to be a Thu-Fri pick in the upcoming draft.  So much for the theory that the team had learned it's lessen during Favre's later years, and would never leave the WR cubbard so bare for Rodgers.

The year Jordy went down with an ACL injury was really when the decline started. Before then, there was always a sort of progression. Driver-Jennings turned into Jennings-Nelson turned into Nelson-Jones turned into Nelson-Cobb, and then Adams joined the bunch... only when Nelson went down we learned real quickly that Cobb was never more than a supporting #2 WR who suddenly started getting too banged up, and would miss enough time in stretches that the #2 spot alongside Adams turned into a question mark. By the time all that happened, the team was too busy frantically trying to develop its defense from a Dumpster Fire to something respectable, so they gambled on low-round acquisitions.

But yeah, a serious look at improving WR will require picking someone in RD 1 or 2. If they don't, they're throwing the dice on either MVS or ESB or Lazard developing(or Kumerow, stranger [BLEEP] has happened in the NFL).

[MrBobGray]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:02 AM, pacman5252 said:

He had like 20 catches and 300 yards. Let’s not act like he was really showing out. He was given reps due to injury, not because he earned it. I hope EQ comes back next year and proves me wrong but It’s not a coincidence that AR’s efficiency numbers are all up and throw always are down. If EQ was healthy, with what he showed last year and in the preseason, he’d be on the fringe.

Using a rookie's receiving numbers to discredit his talent/ability to contribute is a mistake.  Nelson put up 33 for 366 his rookie year in a season the Packers desperately needed a #3 to step up while James Jones was struggling.  Cobb put up 25 for 375 during one of the most explosive offensive seasons in NFL history.  Davante Adams put up 38 for 446 as the #3 receiver all year.  Rookie receivers in McCarthy's offenses never put up big numbers because the offense was primarily predicated on timing, communication and a joint understanding between the QB/receiver.  

EQ showed out just fine last year.  He showed YAC speed and toughness on catches against the Lions and the Jets, ability to read the defense and know his role in the offensive play call against the 49ers, and plus blocking all year.  He's a 1st round physical talent that fell because of questions that all certainly seemed to be smoke.  The idea that that guy would be on the fringe to keep receivers like Kumerow/Allison/Sheppard makes no real sense.

The receiving group isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be, the team is still figuring this offense out.  There's been a lot of plays where Rodgers comes off a read too late or too early and doesn't hit a receiver that ends up running wide open; those will (presumably) continue to fade as he starts to know the offense as second nature.  Additionally, I don't personally think the team is using the receiving talent consistently well yet.  Allison isn't a great fit as the slot in this offense, he doesn't stress the defense at all running crossers and YAC routes all day and he never gets to run his best routes (dig/fade/hitch).  Kumerow isn't great outside because he doesn't gain much in the way of separation because he lacks the ability to sink his hips and explode out of his cuts.  I personally think it would make more sense running Kumerow out of the slot (Adams will obviously also get slot snaps as well at times) given he's an active and willing blocker and he's reliable and tough at the catch point across the middle.  Then you can let Allison play his game on the outside and either draws the teams best CB away from Adams if they play sides or he draws a guy he can beat at times.  Play MVS at the Z whenever possible so he can avoid getting jammed at the line, and you can more or less plug Lazard in wherever.  On that note I do think Lazard is a player; he moves way too well for a UDFA receiver who stands 6'5", 225.  He put up nearly identical workout numbers to Mike Evans at more or less exactly the same size.  

Additionally, I feel like something that never gets talked about when the receiving group gets talked about is that this is a crazy group of blockers.  Lazard will legitimately move people, and Kumerow and Allison both block with a lot of effort (and have the size to make it work).  The team uses a lot of blocking angles with the receivers and they're extremely effective.  

I do think taking a receiver high makes sense, as Kumerow/Allison will be gone next year and MVS hasn't made the jump you'd hope for yet.  But the receiving corps isn't a core issue at this point for me.  They're not an elite group by any stretch, but I'd say they're solidly league average all told and with an elite #1 to lead the way.

[mikemike778]

42 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I do think taking a receiver high makes sense, as Kumerow/Allison will be gone next year and MVS hasn't made the jump you'd hope for yet.  But the receiving corps isn't a core issue at this point for me.  They're not an elite group by any stretch, but I'd say they're solidly league average all told and with an elite #1 to lead the way.

You can win with these receivers but they aren't league average. Outside of Adams, they are all players that you would quite like on the roster but somewhere around WR4. There is definitely a significant talent gap where the number 2 and 3 guys are basically being covered by players that are better than them.

The frustrating thing for me is how many picks have been blown on defence - every year to no avail. I'm OK reluctantly to neglect offence but we really should have a top 5 defence with everything that has been invested in it. But there still seems to be all manner of problems with the defence no matter how many picks you throw at it. We've hit a hot run on receivers in the second so maybe we have been spoiled but you can't help but think if we just spent the odd high draft pick on a skill player we could have a high powered passing game again instead of a mediocre one. But draft pick after pick gets thrown at defence without fixing anything. 

People are already demanding we draft DL and MLB and with Jackson failing, probably there will a clamour for DBs as well. So where does that leave the offence ? Do we patch up Bulaga and give him a new deal hoping his knee holds out and stuff the receiving group with more undrafted players and other teams unwanted cuts ?  Its such a waste it really is.

[skibrett15]

2 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

but I'd say they're solidly league average all told and with an elite #1 to lead the way.

if they are average and also have an elite #1 that means they are horrible at #2-5.

I really don't think this is a "fit" issue where the players aren't being used to their strengths.  I totally agree that the offense isn't clicking perfectly, but some of these guys are just never getting open.

Including the TE group, this is a bad group overall behind Adams.  MVS seems like he could make it in the NFL as a #3, and is someone you'd like as your 4.  The others seem very replaceable, and the jury is out on Lazard.

 

I might sign J'Mon Moore for Kumerow today.