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2019 WR Corps


incognito_man

If you had to pick one  

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  1. 1. Who do you pick?



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there's no one else they can sign on short notice who even has a chance of learning the offense and being able to come in and play except those who were in camp.  Kumerow hasn't been god awful but he hasn't been good.

 

put him on the PS and see what happens is a half measure, too.

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Just now, skibrett15 said:

there's no one else they can sign on short notice who even has a chance of learning the offense and being able to come in and play except those who were in camp.  Kumerow hasn't been god awful but he hasn't been good.

 

put him on the PS and see what happens is a half measure, too.

But weve got the one fella on PS already do we need more?

You can tell by how I dont have the slightest clue what his name is that I believe he'll turn out to be much better than what Moore couldve been.

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21 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

if they are average and also have an elite #1 that means they are horrible at #2-5.

I really don't think this is a "fit" issue where the players aren't being used to their strengths.  I totally agree that the offense isn't clicking perfectly, but some of these guys are just never getting open.

Including the TE group, this is a bad group overall behind Adams.  MVS seems like he could make it in the NFL as a #3, and is someone you'd like as your 4.  The others seem very replaceable, and the jury is out on Lazard.

 

I might sign J'Mon Moore for Kumerow today.

Average across the board.  In other words, I don't think their 2-5 are much below league average.  Personally I feel like a common issue is that a lot of fans don't actually know what league average looks like; the Packers receivers were elite and arguably the best in football in 2009-2012, and still extremely high end through 2014.  Driver/Jennings/Jones/Nelson/Cobb was three current or former WR1s, a solid WR2-3, and an elite slot.  Would it be great to have that group again?  Sure.  Is it realistic?  Not in the slightest.

The Packers are missing a WR2, I'll grant you.  They have a bunch of guys who do a few things well, but no one you'd reliably want on the field every snap after Adams.  That's their weakness.  But there are more than a few other teams out there with the same weakness and without a WR1 the quality of Adams.  In terms of rotational guys you move in and out, Lazard/MVS/Allison/Kumerow is on par or better than a solid chunk of the league.  It's not an elite group by any stretch or metric, but I firmly disagree that the receivers can't win on their routes.  Watching the All-22, there are open receivers, and the offense is a few drops and some missed throws away from big production.  

This feels a lot like 2016 to me.  Coming off 2015, I got in a lot of arguments that the receiving talent was not an issue early on in 2016 despite the fact that guys were open on the All-22.  As time went on, the offense found their footing and Rodgers started hitting his throws and they blew up.  This looks a lot the same.  When Rodgers stands tall in the pocket and delivers the ball, generally speaking the plays are being made.  

Edited by MrBobGray
I can't spell they'ire
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16 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Average across the board.  In other words, I don't think their 2-5 are much below league average.  Personally I feel like a common issue is that a lot of fans don't actually know what league average looks like; the Packers receivers were elite and arguably the best in football in 2009-2012, and still extremely high end through 2014.  Driver/Jennings/Jones/Nelson/Cobb was three current or former WR1s, a solid WR2-3, and an elite slot.  Would it be great to have that group again?  Sure.  Is it realistic?  Not in the slightest.

The Packers are missing a WR2, I'll grant you.  They have a bunch of guys who do a few things well, but no one you'd reliably want on the field every snap after Adams.  That's their weakness.  But their are more than a few other teams out there with the same weakness and without a WR1 the quality of Adams.  In terms of rotational guys you move in and out, Lazard/MVS/Allison/Kumerow is on par or better than a solid chunk of the league.  It's not an elite group by any stretch or metric, but I firmly disagree that the receivers can't win on their routes.  Watching the All-22, there are open receivers, and the offense is a few drops and some missed throws away from big production.  

This feels a lot like 2016 to me.  Coming off 2015, I got in a lot of arguments that the receiving talent was not an issue early on in 2016 despite the fact that guys were open on the All-22.  As time went on, the offense found their footing and Rodgers started hitting his throws and they blew up.  This looks a lot the same.  When Rodgers stands tall in the pocket and delivers the ball, generally speaking the plays are being made.  

They have a #1 and some #3,4,5's.  A good #2 and a good te and this offense would be golden.  Unfortunately, just don't see anybody rising to that very important #2 spot.  Would love to see what Tonyan and or Sternberger can do at te yet this season.  With the NFC so tight and a number of teams relatively even, just a couple catches per game could be the deciding difference between having or not having home field advantage.

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3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

No one hates Kumerow on this board more than me, he's exceeded my expectations. He's serviceable. A fine #4 WR in the league, Lazard is the same, but with more upside and MVS is a solid #3, we just don't have a #2 and we don't have a true slot are the issues.

Don't forget that really good te either which would make a huge difference.  Totally agree on your post otherwise.

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16 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Don't forget that really good te either which would make a huge difference.  Totally agree on your post otherwise.

Graham has been fine for us this season. We get caught up on the fact that he's not what he was in New Orleans. He's no world beater, but he's found ways to get open down field and produce. Are we overpaying? You bet, but it's not like he's completely washed up and he's having a better season this year than last.

 

17 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

In terms of rotational guys you move in and out, Lazard/MVS/Allison/Kumerow is on par or better than a solid chunk of the league.  It's not an elite group by any stretch or metric, but I firmly disagree that the receivers can't win on their routes.  Watching the All-22, there are open receivers, and the offense is a few drops and some missed throws away from big production.  

This is why I don't think WR is as big of a need as others have suggested. Our rotational guys would be starters on half the teams in the league so I'd have to say we're better. Allison is a reliable WR3 and Lazard can be right there. MVS needs to mature and develop more into that WR2 role; he just wasn't ready for that this year.

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Graham has been ok ... I wouldn't say fine when compared to a number of other tight ends in the league.   Imagine what the offense would be with 4-5 catches every game.  Saying he was better this year than last year isn't saying much, especially considering what he's making.   He has made a few nice catches but we could use more than what he's produced.  It is what it is with him for rest of the year  and hopefully finish out his last year on a high note.       

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Graham is fine, honestly he's playing really well.  He may not be prime Graham but he's been better than usual as a blocker and is giving a ton of effort there, and he can still hurt defenses if they ignore him.  That's really all you need out of your TE position; sure having a Kelce or similar is nice, but every throw to a TE is a throw not going to your more explosive position groups. 

My biggest question going forward is whether or not they can find Allison a reliable home.  He's gotten shafted this season; Rodgers has hung him out to dry a few times and the plays they run designed to him are usually destined to fail.  I badly want them to line Allison at the X for awhile when they aren't in a tight formation and just let him beat his man.  Adams is a disgustingly good boundary receiver, but frankly he's equally good if not better from the slot, so give him some snaps there.  There's not a player in the NFL who can cover Adams with a two way go, and slot routes aren't just whips and crossers anymore. 

I pick Allison because I think he's the most likely to be able to fill the WR2 role if they give him a chance.  Allison is running some really nice routes, he's attacking the back leg on his stems and he varies his breaks and releases well enough that he's not usually wearing corners like a shirt the way Kumerow and MVS do at times.  Lazard isn't open as regularly, but given his size and willingness to use it he's basically always sort of open away from the corner's leverage; that being said, that's not a substitute for actually being open.  Allison is gone after this season and he's not a dangerous WR2, but MVS isn't ready and he's more likely to produce consistently on a variety of routes than Lazard/Kumerow.  I get why they tried him in the slot; he's got some of what you want and you don't want to take MVS off the field if at all reasonable.  But MVS is still a rotational guy, and they need a legitimate starter.  At least give the man a shot..

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10 hours ago, Joe said:

Graham has been fine for us this season. We get caught up on the fact that he's not what he was in New Orleans. He's no world beater, but he's found ways to get open down field and produce. Are we overpaying? You bet, but it's not like he's completely washed up and he's having a better season this year than last.

Graham has been mediocre, and he is not having as good a season as he did last year. It's been so long since we've had a really good TE that I think fans have forgotten what that looks like. Graham does have more TDs this year (3) than he did all of last year (2), but that was not a difficult mark to beat. His catches and yards are less than half of last year's totals, and we are 10 games into the season. Yards per catch is virtually identical. 

I agree with MrBobGray that Graham's blocking has been better than he gets credit for, though. He is also a high effort, high character guy, which counts for something. But we could certainly benefit from a more dynamic player at the TE position. 

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FWIW: These are two consecutive plays in the first quarter of the game. 5:17 and 5:11 if you want to go watch. Sorry for the stills. NFL Game Pass is currently running some sort of gif capture blocker now :/

gdmN8v8.png

What the hell is the point of having Jimmy Graham on a football team, if when you get Cover-2 and him isolated on a Linebacker, you don't even give him a look??? That's why the man was born. His sole purpose in life is to bust these Cover-2 looks. If you're going to make the argument that Rodgers is pretty much a Davante Adams addict, plays like this make the point.

l67LXp6.png

What the hell is the point of having MVS on this team if you're not going to give him a shot when he wins vertically? I totally get that it's a clear concept so Graham can get underneath on the deep out route, but you're supposed to read Touchdown->First Down->Checkdown. Graham is going to fall on this out route, and Rodgers is going to see that and still throw it to Graham over MVS. Rodgers is going to get hit on this play and is going to deserve it for missing the open read. How do you miss an open read on this play? There are two targets and a checkdown, and the two targets are in the same eye location?

MqaRWr0.png

In fairness, Rodgers did come back to Graham on another C2 read.

whu8uzz.png

Another example of Rodgers being a Davante addict. Where did the throws to the RBs go? 

Edited by AlexGreen#20
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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

FWIW: These are two consecutive plays in the first quarter of the game. 5:17 and 5:11 if you want to go watch. Sorry for the stills. NFL Game Pass is currently running some sort of gif capture blocker now :/

gdmN8v8.png

What the hell is the point of having Jimmy Graham on a football team, if when you get Cover-2 and him isolated on a Linebacker, you don't even give him a look??? That's why the man was born. His sole purpose in life is to bust these Cover-2 looks. If you're going to make the argument that Rodgers is pretty much a Davante Adams addict, plays like this make the point.

l67LXp6.png

What the hell is the point of having MVS on this team if you're not going to give him a shot when he wins vertically? I totally get that it's a clear concept so Graham can get underneath on the deep out route, but you're supposed to read Touchdown->First Down->Checkdown. Graham is going to fall on this out route, and Rodgers is going to see that and still throw it to Graham over MVS. Rodgers is going to get hit on this play and is going to deserve it for missing the open read. How do you miss an open read on this play? There are two targets and a checkdown, and the two targets are in the same eye location?

MqaRWr0.png

In fairness, Rodgers did come back to Graham on another C2 read.

whu8uzz.png

Another example of Rodgers being a Davante addict. Where did the throws to the RBs go? 

Rodgers has to do better.  Maybe the week off the passing offense can get back to what worked before Adams came back.  Packers need to hit on all cylinders Sunday night to get a win and that includes Rodgers hitting the open man regardless who it is.

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2 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Rodgers has to do better.  Maybe the week off the passing offense can get back to what worked before Adams came back.  Packers need to hit on all cylinders Sunday night to get a win and that includes Rodgers hitting the open man regardless who it is.

It's really troubling that getting Adams integrated into a functional offense has been so problematic. Getting a top 5 NFL receiver back shouldn't bog it down, it should be taking it to new heights. 

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