CWood21 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 hours ago, SSG said: If that happens, I don't think that's treating the position any differant than we treated it last year. Last year we kept 7 and moved Davis to the IR immediately . ESB was our #5 WR going into the year and he played 15 ST snaps all year. Moore was the guy at the bottom of the WR depth chart and he wasn't anything special on ST (he didn't start getting routine time on ST until week 8). Davis is the only WR on the roster who's noticeably better on ST and he's behind the power curve because of an inability to stay on the field. You might be able to argue Shephard as well because of his kick return ability but it's a really small sample size. IMO if we were in "win now" we'd have thrown a bunch of money or high draft picks at the position like we did Safety and Edge. What do ESB and J'Mon Moore have in common? They were both kept because of their potential. They sure as hell weren't kept because of their ST value. When you're talking about the bottom of your WR depth chart, you're looking at guys with ST value and upside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 18 hours ago, Donzo said: No... For some reason you're discounting talent. Davis and Moore are much more talented than the players you mentioned. The roster spots are theirs' to lose. Laszard and Shephard are dime a dozen UDFAs. Every team has some of those every camp that do well. This year, the Bengals have a couple they're talking about being the future of their team. Kumerow, bless his heart. He's a professional training camp WR. To confuse him as more than that, at the expense of younger more talented players, is foolish. Like I originally mentioned, this will be decided by Davis and Moore. If Davis stays healthy, he'll make the team. If not, hello Mr. Shepherd. If Moore is on his game and catching everything the next week and half, he makes the team. If not, then all different possibilities arise. If J'Mon Moore couldn't stop getting in his own damn way, this argument would probably be stronger. But he's literally penciling in a roster spot for Jake Kumerow with all these drops. He's playing himself off the roster with those drops. As for Shephard, his way on the 53 man roster is via ST and I fear he's competing with Trevor Davis for the same roster spot. The kicker might be the fact that Trevor Davis only has 1 more year of team control where as Shephard has 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: What do ESB and J'Mon Moore have in common? They were both kept because of their potential. They sure as hell weren't kept because of their ST value. When you're talking about the bottom of your WR depth chart, you're looking at guys with ST value and upside. EQ made a nice play on ST Preseason Week 1 for the TD. I feel like they will utilize him there, his size and speed is a weapon on ST. Edited August 21, 2019 by Gopackgonerd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, CWood21 said: If J'Mon Moore couldn't stop getting in his own damn way, this argument would probably be stronger. But he's literally penciling in a roster spot for Jake Kumerow with all these drops. He's playing himself off the roster with those drops. As for Shephard, his way on the 53 man roster is via ST and I fear he's competing with Trevor Davis for the same roster spot. The kicker might be the fact that Trevor Davis only has 1 more year of team control where as Shephard has 4 years. This is why I think the team will roll with Shephard - just my gut feeling at the moment. Still time for that to change in the preseason...maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: What do ESB and J'Mon Moore have in common? They were both kept because of their potential. They sure as hell weren't kept because of their ST value. When you're talking about the bottom of your WR depth chart, you're looking at guys with ST value and upside. I agree and the fact that they were recent draft picks also was a major factor. I was simply pointing out that we didn't structure our WR core last year base on any sort of ST influence. While Davis made the 53, we tried to trade him prior to the cuts and he was moved to the IR almost immediately after the cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, SSG said: I agree and the fact that they were recent draft picks also was a major factor. I was simply pointing out that we didn't structure our WR core last year base on any sort of ST influence. While Davis made the 53, we tried to trade him prior to the cuts and he was moved to the IR almost immediately after the cuts. They tried to trade Davis last year? That one went right past me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Sasquatch said: It’d be nice if FF had a way to downvote, take footballs away, or something to discourage trolling or show disagreement with someone’s ****ty take without having to engage or respond to trolls. Ok, back to WR discussions. How do I thumbs down this post? @incognito_man hack into the site and make this happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Leader said: They tried to trade Davis last year? That one went right past me. Yup. They were concerned about his injury and knew that they had better non-RS WR's on the roster given that both Cobb and Allison could return kicks if necessary. What baffles me is how they didn't see how Davis was expendable at that moment at a time in which they could've invested a draft pick or signed a FA to specifically handle RS duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: How do I thumbs down this post? @incognito_man hack into the site and make this happen! Blocked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sasquatch said: Blocked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Joe said: Yup. They were concerned about his injury and knew that they had better non-RS WR's on the roster given that both Cobb and Allison could return kicks if necessary. What baffles me is how they didn't see how Davis was expendable at that moment at a time in which they could've invested a draft pick or signed a FA to specifically handle RS duties. Our kick (and punt) returns stunk to high heaven last year and neither Cobb or Allison would have cleared that stench - plus - neither was expendable to injury caused by ST activity IMO. Hell, Cobb had hard enough time staying on the field for his regular offensive duties. I disagree with the opinion that Davis was expendable. As last year more than evidenced, his contributions to ST was sorely missed. Nobody - but nobody - stepped up. He came back for a game or two and suddenly returns were a reality again. He got hurt and they disappeared again. Perhaps I value the positive yards he was securing more than others. Edited August 21, 2019 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Leader said: I disagree with the opinion that Davis was expendable. As last year more than evidenced, his contributions to ST was sorely missed. Nobody - but nobody - stepped up. He came back for a game or two and suddenly returns were a reality again. He got hurt and they disappeared again. Perhaps I value the positive yards he was securing more than others. It's not like he had to set the world on fire to create a positive improvement. Hell, I liken it to my job right now where I replaced someone who quit in the most unprofessional way possible without getting arrested and I feel like I'm underachieving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Leader said: Our kick (and punt) returns stunk to high heaven last year and neither Cobb or Allison would have cleared that stench - plus - neither was expendable to injury caused by ST activity IMO. Hell, Cobb had hard enough time staying on the field for his regular offensive duties. I disagree with the opinion that Davis was expendable. As last year more than evidenced, his contributions to ST was sorely missed. Nobody - but nobody - stepped up. He came back for a game or two and suddenly returns were a reality again. He got hurt and they disappeared again. Perhaps I value the positive yards he was securing more than others. I totally agree with your opinion. Davis, when healthy, was a very reliable returner and I would breathe a sign of relief when I saw him in the game. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if 1265 goes with the younger model in this particular position. Not saying I want that to happen - I'm mixed - but we've seen it happen before in various other positions. Still some time left in the pre-season for the needle to move in one direction or the other. Should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Joe said: It's not like he had to set the world on fire to create a positive improvement. Hell, I liken it to my job right now where I replaced someone who quit in the most unprofessional way possible without getting arrested and I feel like I'm underachieving... Lets not go overboard trying to re-characterize the past with hypotheticals. Davis was producing on STs. Its statistical fact. He was a weapon. It's also fact GB had nobody on the roster to replace that production. Our return game turned into an unproductive clown show. It was embarrassingly bad. Edited August 21, 2019 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Leader said: Our return game turned into an unproductive clown show. It was embarrassingly bad. WHEN WILL TRAMON CATCH A PUNT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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