Malik Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Teams need to be willing to let average or slightly above average QBs go. If there was a universally accepted WAR stat for football a lot of football contracts would crater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Dak getting over 25/yr is a mistake, I would even consider 25/yr a mistake but starting QBs will still get a good amount of money. They can replace Dak easily enough as long as they have that OL, Cooper, and Zeke to make it easier for whoever is under center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gmen said: It would be great if the Cowboys throw that kind of money at Dak. By the end of next year he won’t even be the 2nd best quarterback in the NFCE. Wentz is already better, Jones will be better. Dak and Wentz are neck and neck with eachother. Dak is better statistically, but Wentz has a higher ceiling. 20 minutes ago, Raves said: Dak getting over 25/yr is a mistake, I would even consider 25/yr a mistake but starting QBs will still get a good amount of money. They can replace Dak easily enough as long as they have that OL, Cooper, and Zeke to make it easier for whoever is under center. This is the most ridiculous argument that gets parroted about Dak and it drives me insane. Dak had the 28th ranked pass blocking OL last year and the *worst* rated group of WRs at getting open in the entire NFL (prior to Cooper). The year before that Dak's OL fell off a cliff Atlanta game going forward (pressure rate literally doubled) and his pass catchers died with them (Dez specifically). Its a much more reasonable stance that Dak was held back by his supporting cast. #32 WR and #28 OL is arguably the worst situation in the entire NFL. Edited August 12, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Dak and Wentz are neck and neck with eachother. Dak is better statistically, but Wentz has a higher ceiling. This is the most ridiculous argument that gets parroted about Dak and it drives me insane. Dak had the 28th ranked pass blocking OL last year and the *worst* rated group of WRs at getting open in the entire NFL. The year before that Dak's OL fell off a cliff Atlanta game going forward and his pass catchers died with them (Dez specifically). Its a much more reasonable stance that Dak was held back by his supporting cast. #32 WR and #28 OL is arguably the worst situation in the entire NFL. Just curious, where did you find these rankings and where was Arizona? I would argue they had by far the worst situation in the NFL period. Also you listed just WRs, Dak still had Zeke to rely on in taking pressure off of him through the running game as well as a receiving threat, which I'm guessing it wasn't ranked. I mean because without the RB you could easily make the argument for the Saints having a bottom 5 receiving options as well even though they have an arguably top 5 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Just now, Raves said: Just curious, where did you find these rankings and where was Arizona? I would argue they had by far the worst situation in the NFL period. Also you listed just WRs, Dak still had Zeke to rely on in taking pressure off of him through the running game as well as a receiving threat, which I'm guessing it wasn't ranked. I mean because without the RB you could easily make the argument for the Saints having a bottom 5 receiving options as well even though they have an arguably top 5 WR. NFL.com released the WR separation. Cowboys were worst in the league. F.O. released OL rankings, Cowboys were 28th in passblocking. PFF also credited 5th worst in the NFL for giving up pressure/sacks that arent attributed to the QB. Even if you want to argue the Cardinals were worse, it wasnt by much. The team around Dak was straight poop from Falcons '17 - getting Cooper in '18. Which just so happens to be the only stretch in Daks career that he wasnt putting up top 5-10 efficiency production. https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1 PS => RBs have little correlation to QB success. Almost none. The only exception to this rule are pass catching RBs. Otherwise there is no statistical analysis the past 25 years that proves QB's efficiency is affected by RB performance. The only thing altered is their bulk numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) Im not sure if everyone realizes so I will post it again. Post Cooper Dak was top 10 (top 5 in some) in the following: YPG YPA TD TD:INT ratio INT Passer Rating We literally gave him 1 capable good option and he became a top 10 statistical QB. And lets be honest, most of you dont even think Cooper is a top 10-15 WR. Edited August 12, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Elky said: These QB salaries are getting out of control. I completely agree. At some point people arent even gonna be able to field a team. These "elite" or top tier QBs of the 'aging era' who have the big contracts gotta move on and help reset the market at a lower price imo, if that's even possible at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, wwhickok said: I completely agree. At some point people arent even gonna be able to field a team. These "elite" or top tier QBs of the 'aging era' who have the big contracts gotta move on and help reset the market at a lower price imo, if that's even possible at this point. QB contracts have pretty much stayed in the 10-15% of cap space. Probably will continue to as no team has ever won a superbowl with a QB cap hit about 13(?)%. I dont remember the exact number. I think its actually 12.something %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 11 hours ago, RuskieTitan said: Any credible, or even uncredible sources to support this? Don't know about him rejecting it, but there were definitely rumors floating that he wanted 30-34. Edit - here we go: Quote Michael Lombardi of The Athletic reported on Sunday that he has been told Prescott turned down an offer from the Cowboys that would have paid him somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 million annually. That would place him among the five highest-paid quarterbacks in football And then here was the talk / rumors earlier about his ask- Quote Quarterback Dak Prescott‘s agent, Todd France, has “broached” a deal in the range of $34 million per year, according to Clarence Hill of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchFalcon Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: QB contracts have pretty much stayed in the 10-15% of cap space. Probably will continue to as no team has ever won a superbowl with a QB cap hit about 13(?)%. I dont remember the exact number. I think its actually 12.something %. This. Rewind like 8 years and the deals are just as crazy compared to the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: QB contracts have pretty much stayed in the 10-15% of cap space. Probably will continue to as no team has ever won a superbowl with a QB cap hit about 13(?)%. I dont remember the exact number. I think its actually 12.something %. I believe the record is still held by the 49ers with Steve Young. His was 13.1%. But some of that is just bad luck. The Falcons really should have beaten the Pats three years ago and that year Matt Ryan took up over 14% of the Falcons cap space. So it's not like it can't be done...it just hasn't. It does put you a bit behind the 8 ball though, admittedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 these contracts are really getting out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Forge said: I believe the record is still held by the 49ers with Steve Young. His was 13.1%. But some of that is just bad luck. The Falcons really should have beaten the Pats three years ago and that year Matt Ryan took up over 14% of the Falcons cap space. So it's not like it can't be done...it just hasn't. It does put you a bit behind the 8 ball though, admittedly. Yeah, I said 10-15% because a lot of the QBs sign around 15% but within a year or 2, they are closer to ~12-13%. Its been repeating this cycle for decades. Additionally with how some QBs (Brees, Brady) have ghost years on their contracts, you could argue they are over 15% right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, SBLIII said: these contracts are really getting out of hand. People always say this, and it's just not true. The pie gets bigger, so do the pieces (at least until they decide to increase the number of pieces). As Matts said, the percentages are still largely in line with previous years for quarterbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Forge said: People always say this, and it's just not true. The pie gets bigger, so do the pieces (at least until they decide to increase the number of pieces). As Matts said, the percentages are still largely in line with previous years for quarterbacks. It's my opinion when I see the raw numbers. I realize what you say it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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