If Dak gets 5 years 185 million Mahomes should get 6 years 240

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

YPG is a bulk stat, not an efficiency one.

No it isn’t, lol. 

Total yards on the season or career is a bulk stat. Yards per game is an efficiency stat. The same way air yards per attempt is an efficiency stat, so is yards per game. 

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Sack % has more to do with the OL though the QB is also responsible - which is directly tied to Daks OL being 5th worst at giving up sacks and pressures.

Dak had a higher sack % in 2017 than Wentz has on his career, too. Even higher than Wentz’ rookie year when Lane Johnson missed all that time. 

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak has a better AY/A and ANY/A along with YPC. 

So again, Dak is better in virtually all of them.

And he’s behind in TD%, YPG, and sack % (if you’re going to count YPC as a QB, I’m going to count sack %).

[Steelersfan43]

16 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Lets play this game. Here is Dak compared to Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Palmer and Wentz. How shocked are you to see..... HE IS BETTER THAN ALL THEM TOO?

I tried to stick with QBs in the "passing Era"

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Dak+Prescott&player_id1_select=Dak+Prescott&player_id1=PresDa01&fromyear_1=2016&toyear_1=2018&player_id2_hint=Tom+Brady&player_id2_select=Tom+Brady&player_id2=BradTo00&fromyear_2=2000&toyear_2=2003&player_id3_hint=Peyton+Manning&player_id3_select=Peyton+Manning&player_id3=MannPe00&fromyear_3=1998&toyear_3=2000&player_id4_hint=Carson+Wentz&player_id4_select=Carson+Wentz&player_id4=WentCa00&fromyear_4=2016&toyear_4=2018&player_id5_hint=Philip+Rivers&player_id5_select=Philip+Rivers&player_id5=RivePh00&fromyear_5=2004&toyear_5=2007&player_id6_hint=Drew+Brees&player_id6_select=Drew+Brees&player_id6=BreeDr00&fromyear_6=2001&toyear_6=2004

 

Here are some more: Dak is comprable to the first 48 games of Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Rodgers, Luck, Wilson. Only Aarod pulls away though Russel Wilson has a slight lead too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Dak+Prescott&player_id1_select=Dak+Prescott&player_id1=PresDa01&fromyear_1=2016&toyear_1=2018&player_id2_hint=Matt+Ryan&player_id2_select=Matt+Ryan&player_id2=RyanMa00&fromyear_2=2008&toyear_2=2010&player_id3_hint=Aaron+Rodgers&player_id3_select=Aaron+Rodgers&player_id3=RodgAa00&fromyear_3=2008&toyear_3=2010&player_id4_hint=Ben+Roethlisberger&player_id4_select=Ben+Roethlisberger&player_id4=RoetBe00&fromyear_4=2004&toyear_4=2006&player_id5_hint=Russell+Wilson&player_id5_select=Russell+Wilson&player_id5=WilsRu00&fromyear_5=2012&toyear_5=2014&player_id6_hint=Andrew+Luck&player_id6_select=Andrew+Luck&player_id6=LuckAn00&fromyear_6=2012&toyear_6=2014

Yea it is. Show me the stats that say different.

You can not compare the stats of a QB with a QB in another era in another era, it's ridiculous

This is not just since 2004 it changed .. Since the safety rule in 2011 where the defenses can't hit the player in the middle of the field, otherwise you will have a 15 yards penalty, fine, maybe suspension, this rule probably has a bigger impact in the passing game that the new rules of 2004.

[Soko]

17 minutes ago, Danger said:

You may as well throw out the Rookie seasons because we've seen time and time again that they mean next to nothing.

I don’t know about throwing them out completely, but they certainly hold less weight as they both progress through their careers. At some point you (meaning generally, not you specifically) have to look at the player in front of you and not who they were 4 years ago. Statistically, their careers are relatively close, but nobody really looks at career statistics in comparisons. 

It’s like, if we compare Julio to AB, and then say the answer is definitely Julio because he produced earlier than AB - that doesn’t really address who or what they are today.

[Raves]

Honestly let's look more into those stats.  If you look at Dak, his stats are more or less the same all 3 years.  He hasn't gotten better at all, he actually got less efficient at thowing TDs as you see his TD% drop each year.

Let's look at Brees then.

2002:  320/526, 60.8% comp, 3284 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT, 3.2 TD%, 4.2 INT% 205.3 ypg

2003:  205/356, 57.6% comp, 2108 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT, 3.1 TD%, 4.2 INT% 191.6 ypg

2004:  262/400, 65.5% comp, 3159 yards, 27 TD, 7 INT, 6.8 TD%, 1.8 INT%, 210.6 ypg

2005:  323/500, 64.6% comp, 3576 yards,  24 TD, 16 INT, 4.8 TD%, 3.0 INT%, 223.5 YPG

Brees in his 3rd year starting too a big step forward in his production efficiency compared to the previous two years and followed it up with another good year after that great 2004 season.  After that he joined the Saints in 2006 and we all know hwo that's gone.

Peyton Manning:

1998: 326/575, 56.7% comp, 3739 yards, 26 TD, 28 INT, 4.5 TD%, 4.9 INT% 233.7 ypg

1999:  331/533, 62.1 comp% 4135 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 4.9 TD%, 2.8 INT%, 258.4 ypg

2000:  357/571 62.5 comp% 4413 yards, 33 TD, 15 INT, 5.8 TD%, 2.6 INT%, 275.8 ypg

See the steady progression of improving.  We all know how Manning continued his career.

Tom Brady:

2001:  264/413, 63.9 comp% 2843 yards, 18 TD, 12 INT, 4.7 TD%, 2.9 INT%, 189.5 ypg

2002:  373/601, 62.1 comp% 3764 yards, 28 TD, 14 INT, 4.7 TD%, 2.3 int% 235.3 ypg

2003: 317/527, 60.2 comp%, 3620 yards, 23 TD, 12 INT, 4.4 TD%, 2.3 INT%, 226.3 ypg

2004: 288/474, 60.8 comp%, 3692 yards, 28 TD, 14 INT, 5.9 TD%, 3.0 INT%, 230.8 ypg

Brady is probably the closest to starting off slow but he still saw a jump from in his efficiency and production, something Dak hasn't shown.

 

Dak just hasn't shown growth.  He plays well with good players around him, but that's it. He's only a 30 mil QB because that is the new market for the Kirk Cousins tier of QB.  He's definitely not worth more.

[Matts4313]

34 minutes ago, Danger said:

Except Wentz has been good for the entirety of the past 2 seasons, and the only time he wasn't good was when he was both a Rookie and had one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL? It's almost like it's natural progression.

Dak has shown that he is mostly a product of the talent around him. If there's a great team around him he can play good, however a couple of key injuries and he becomes a massive liability. 

The hypocrisy. You are being such a hypocrite. 

"Wentz only sucked when the talent around him was awful"

Guess what, Daks only bad 10 game stretch was when the talent around him was arguably the worst in the NFL.

"Wentz has natural progression" => When the talent around him was so good, their back up QB became superbowl MVP.

"Dak is a product of the talent around him" => and Wentz isnt? Really? The Eagles have, and I quote, "The most talented team in the NFL"... Shocking that Wentz only looked good with that cast. 

[Raves]

13 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t know about throwing them out completely, but they certainly hold less weight as they both progress through their careers. At some point you (meaning generally, not you specifically) have to look at the player in front of you and not who they were 4 years ago. Statistically, their careers are relatively close, but nobody really looks at career statistics in comparisons. 

It’s like, if we compare Julio to AB, and then say the answer is definitely Julio because he produced earlier than AB - that doesn’t really address who or what they are today.

Rookie seasons matter if players don't progress.  Dak's best season is still his rookie season.  In comparison Wentz has continued to improve as a player, Goff has continued to improve, almost all of the greats continue to improve or at least make a single big jump or even improvement.  They need to hold off not pay Dak this year and see if he makes that jump.

[Danger]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

The hypocrisy. You are being such a hypocrite. 

"Wentz only sucked when the talent around him was awful"

Guess what, Daks only bad 10 game stretch was when the talent around him was arguably the worst in the NFL.

"Wentz has natural progression" => When the talent around him was so good, their back up QB became superbowl MVP.

"Dak is a product of the talent around him" => and Wentz isnt? Really? The Eagles have, and I quote, "The most talented team in the NFL"... Shocking that Wentz only looked good with that cast. 

I'm not solely blaming the talent around him, dude was a rookie and played like a Rookie. But Dak folded like a chair for the course of 16 games over two seasons. Meanwhile he had a top 10 offensive line the whole time, and Zeke for 10 of those games.

As good as Nick looked, Carson is definitively better. Wentz's numbers would drop with less talent, no doubt, but not like Dak who literally wasn't even good enough to be a backup on most teams for a 16 game stretch. 

[Raves]

If I was Dallas I would rather be paying Dak more money next year if he has a top 5 year, than paying him top 5 money only for him to have the same season he had the last 3.

[Matts4313]

20 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

No it isn’t, lol. 

Total yards on the season or career is a bulk stat. Yards per game is an efficiency stat. The same way air yards per attempt is an efficiency stat, so is yards per game. 

Dak had a higher sack % in 2017 than Wentz has on his career, too. Even higher than Wentz’ rookie year when Lane Johnson missed all that time. 

And he’s behind in TD%, YPG, and sack % (if you’re going to count YPC as a QB, I’m going to count sack %).

YPG is bulk, the more you throw it, the more yards you have in that game. An efficiency stat is one that is not dependent on reps. YPG depends on reps. 

Daks OL had been complete dog ish in the pass game for the last season and a half. Of course his sack percentage jumped dramatically. And you are talking about missing Lane... weve missed Tyron (and he has played injured) and Fredrick during Daks downspell. Not including the fact that we started rookies, back ups, cast offs and gone through 3 OL coaches. 

20 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said:

You can not compare the stats of a QB with a QB in another era in another era, it's ridiculous

This is not just since 2004 it changed .. Since the safety rule in 2011 where the defenses can't hit the player in the middle of the field, otherwise you will have a 15 yards penalty, fine, maybe suspension, this rule probably has a bigger impact in the passing game that the new rules of 2004.

Ive represented all the top QBs from the past 20 years. IF you would like to include other QBs, feel free. 

[Danger]

Just now, Raves said:

If I was Dallas I would rather be paying Dak more money next year if he has a top 5 year, than paying him top 5 money only for him to have the same season he had the last 3.

Frankly. Dak doesn't stand to make much more between now and before next free agency even if he does prove himself. The Cowboy's best option at this point is to wait and see how Dak's season plays out. They have hardly anything to lose at this point, and all the potential leverage to gain.

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, Raves said:

Rookie seasons matter if players don't progress.  Dak's best season is still his rookie season.  In comparison Wentz has continued to improve as a player, Goff has continued to improve, almost all of the greats continue to improve or at least make a single big jump or even improvement.  They need to hold off not pay Dak this year and see if he makes that jump.

You arent looking at the stats that I have quoted you. Dak has been remarkably consistent outside of a 10 game stretch. Game 25 is the Falcons game. 

https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1

Which means Dak was a 100 QB rating guy Season 1. 8 games of Season 2. And the last 11 games of season 3. 

His best "season" was once he got Cooper this past year. 

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, Danger said:

I'm not solely blaming the talent around him, dude was a rookie and played like a Rookie. But Dak folded like a chair for the course of 16 games over two seasons. Meanwhile he had a top 10 offensive line the whole time, and Zeke for 10 of those games.

As good as Nick looked, Carson is definitively better. Wentz's numbers would drop with less talent, no doubt, but not like Dak who literally wasn't even good enough to be a backup on most teams for a 16 game stretch. 

This entire sentence is categorically false.

His OL was dog ish. 

His #1 WR was a 5'5 cole beas or a clearly hobbled Dez. 

Zeke was suspended.

He played like crap for 10 games. 

Cmon man, use facts. 

[Raves]

8 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You arent looking at the stats that I have quoted you. Dak has been remarkably consistent outside of a 10 game stretch. Game 25 is the Falcons game. 

https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1

Which means Dak was a 100 QB rating guy Season 1. 8 games of Season 2. And the last 11 games of season 3. 

His best "season" was once he got Cooper this past year. 

  But those games happened.  If you remove Wentz' rookie season he has a 102 QB Rating, 64.7 Comp%, 6.4 TD%, 2.5 INT%, 265.4 ypg

-edit-

oh and a 7.6 Y/A and 8.11 AY/A

-edit two-

Trying to get more of those stats in there

2.25 TD/g

.58 INT/g

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Raves said:

  But those games happened.  If you remove Wentz' rookie season he has a 102 QB Rating, 64.7 Comp%, 6.4 TD%, 2.5 INT%, 265.4 ypg

In like 20 games played. Funny enough, Daks stat line would look the same but over 41 games played if you removed his 10 game awful stretch. Dak literally has more good games than Wentz has games played. And contrary to what Eagles fans want you to believe, over 20 of those came not in his rookie year. 

[Raves]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

In like 20 games played. Funny enough, Daks stat line would look the same but over 41 games played if you removed his 10 game awful stretch. Dak literally has more good games than Wentz has games played. And contrary to what Eagles fans want you to believe, over 20 of those came not in his rookie year. 

How can you get better if you removed those 10 games...  his QBRating was under 102 in those two stretched, how is it going to jump over it.  The Comp% is higher sure, but I'm pretty sure those TD% and ypg for sure aren't going to be better either...  Also the TD/g were also lower than Carsons during each of those stretches so wouldn't match him.