Raves Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 @Matts4313 I'm not saying Dak is a bad QB. I think he is a perfect game manager, that as a player I think he is exactly who he will always be. With a great OL, a great running game, a great defense, and respectable WRs, this is the Dak you will get each and every year. He'll play efficient ball safety football and with the team around him, the Cowboys will win a lot of games, maybe even a Super Bowl. If the Cowboys pay him over $30 million, they will start to lose those pieces that help make him the perfect QB in their current situation considering the ever increasing cap which will off-set some of his increase in pay. If you look Dak hasn't made any meaningful progress since his rookie year, that should be concerning and why the Cowboys need to hold off on even paying him to see if he's going to be more of the same or if he takes the next step. If he takes that step, hell give him the $35-40 mil it will cost to keep him, as then he reaches a new tier. On the other hand, players like Wentz, Mahomes, Watson, etc seem to have taken that next step and able to give you the big plays you need to win games. Sure they might lose you the game as well at times, but they can carry a team without as much assistance to the playoffs and to a Super Bowl, I don't think Dak is that type of QB, at least he hasn't shown it yet. Stats only ever tell part of a story, and for Dak it's that he is consistent and safe with the football. With Wentz it's that he's not as safe with the football but he's going to give you the yards and points you need, especially since I don't think he has the running game behind him to carry the offense otherwise. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Raves said: @Matts4313 I'm not saying Dak is a bad QB. I think he is a perfect game manager, that as a player I think he is exactly who he will always be. With a great OL, a great running game, a great defense, and respectable WRs, this is the Dak you will get each and every year. He'll play efficient ball safety football and with the team around him, the Cowboys will win a lot of games, maybe even a Super Bowl. If the Cowboys pay him over $30 million, they will start to lose those pieces that help make him the perfect QB in their current situation considering the ever increasing cap which will off-set some of his increase in pay. If you look Dak hasn't made any meaningful progress since his rookie year, that should be concerning and why the Cowboys need to hold off on even paying him to see if he's going to be more of the same or if he takes the next step. If he takes that step, hell give him the $35-40 mil it will cost to keep him, as then he reaches a new tier. On the other hand, players like Wentz, Mahomes, Watson, etc seem to have taken that next step and able to give you the big plays you need to win games. Sure they might lose you the game as well at times, but they can carry a team without as much assistance to the playoffs and to a Super Bowl, I don't think Dak is that type of QB, at least he hasn't shown it yet. Stats only ever tell part of a story, and for Dak it's that he is consistent and safe with the football. With Wentz it's that he's not as safe with the football but he's going to give you the yards and points you need, especially since I don't think he has the running game behind him to carry the offense otherwise. I think Dak will once again be a top 10 efficient QB (weve seen him be as high as #3 as a rookie). The only highly relative stat to winning is ANY/A and Dak has been good to great at that for 80% of his career. I think his floor is Alex Smith, I think his peak is somewhere above that and mimicking Brady-lite. I feel like you can 100% win a 'Bowl with Dak. I feel like he has been dealt a short hand with crap pass blocking and wr's for a big chunk of the last 2 seasons which has artificially made him look worse. The most winning QBs are the ones that are highly efficient. Dak is highly efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Dak is as Alex Smith in his prime Good QB who does not make a lot of mistakes,efficient and you can make the playoffs with him as QB, but it's not a QB that will make the team to another level, unless Dak take the next step, but Dak has not improved much since his rookie season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I think Dak will once again be a top 10 efficient QB (weve seen him be as high as #3 as a rookie). The only highly relative stat to winning is ANY/A and Dak has been good to great at that for 80% of his career. I think his floor is Alex Smith, I think his peak is somewhere above that and mimicking Brady-lite. I feel like you can 100% win a 'Bowl with Dak. I feel like he has been dealt a short hand with crap pass blocking and wr's for a big chunk of the last 2 seasons which has artificially made him look worse. The most winning QBs are the ones that are highly efficient. Dak is highly efficient. You can 100% win a 'Bowl with Dak, but you aren't going to be thinking "Man Dak was amazing in our Super Bowl run," it's going to be more about Zeke and the Defense. I think a Super Bowl run for the Cowboys, Dak's statline would be someting like 67% comp, 230 ypg, 4 TD, and 1 INT over 3 games, while you'll see Zeke with 150+ YOS/game, and 5 TDs, with the defense keeping opponents around 15-21 ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said: Dak is as Alex Smith in his prime Good QB who does not make a lot of mistakes,efficient and you can make the playoffs with him as QB, but it's not a QB that will make the team to another level, unless Dak take the next step, but Dak has not improved much since his rookie season. Daks literal best games are always the important ones. He has been pretty awesome in the playoffs. Has areguably outplayed (or at least competitive) with Rodgers, Wilson and Goff when they played. 8 minutes ago, Raves said: You can 100% win a 'Bowl with Dak, but you aren't going to be thinking "Man Dak was amazing in our Super Bowl run," it's going to be more about Zeke and the Defense. I think a Super Bowl run for the Cowboys, Dak's statline would be someting like 67% comp, 230 ypg, 4 TD, and 1 INT over 3 games, while you'll see Zeke with 150+ YOS/game, and 5 TDs, with the defense keeping opponents around 15-21 ppg. I think my stance on Zeke is well known. I think Dak is significantly more important than Zeke. So we are going to have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveTheVikings Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) On 8/12/2019 at 1:02 AM, Thomas5737 said: $40 million per year would be insane. They should cap each position at a certain dollar amount. They can still negotiate a 6 year 240 million dollar deal but with the max being say 30 million per year 60 million would go to a charity which the player could write off. You know, like a charity that discounts tickets, for 10 million dollars per year you could cut every ticket for your team's home games by 20 dollars. I know that's crazy, but could you imagine if a QB did donate 10 million dollars towards ticket holders? They would be an instant legend and still make $20+ million for that year. Could ya? No way. Negotiating is a two way street and the owners shouldn't have a rule that would save them from making stupid mistakes while screwing the players. They should be hiring cap gurus that don't sign players to terrible contracts. Edited August 13, 2019 by ILoveTheVikings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Daks literal best games are always the important ones. He has been pretty awesome in the playoffs. Has areguably outplayed (or at least competitive) with Rodgers, Wilson and Goff when they played. I think my stance on Zeke is well known. I think Dak is significantly more important than Zeke. So we are going to have to agree to disagree. Actually I don't know your stance on Zeke but if that's how you feel that's how you feel. We might get to see if you're right or not this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Lock it in. By the end of the year, Dak will go from fringe top 15 to fringe top 20. Baker, Darnold, Kyler, and Jimmy G will all be considered better clearly better than him. I already think Foles is better but I'm obviously biased there. Can't wait for Dallas to break the bank for a bottom half of the league QB. Gonna be a special day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Oh man, if they pay Dak and Zeke walks/holds out, I need to get all the popcorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 46 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Oh man, if they pay Dak and Zeke walks/holds out, I need to get all the popcorn. I almost think that the Cowboys would trade Zeke before the holdout lasted too long if they couldn't figure out a way to pay him. Teams like the Colts have a ton of cap IIRC and giving Luck a weapon like him would be great for that team to take the next step. Marlon Mack and a 2nd for Zeke? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 No. If Dak gets $37 million per year, Mahomes should get at least $50 million per year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Gmen said: As a Browns fan, are you currently writing this with a bag over your head? Not sure what this even means but no? 2 hours ago, Gmen said: Dak is a middle of the pack quarterback in this league. He’s a game manager, albeit a very efficient one. No defense facing the Cowboys is worried about stopping the passing game. In fact, they dare the Cowboys to pass because of the running game. I agree. However, your mess of a QB room isn’t nearly as good. 2 hours ago, Gmen said: Jones can be so much more than a game manager. He has all the tools to be a top 10 quarterback in this league. I actually like Daniel Jones. I thought he should’ve been drafted in the mid to late first. However, your entire offense outside of running back is pretty messy and Daniel Jones needs time. Claiming that he will be the second best quarterback in that division is ridiculous. But you and the word ”ridiculous” seem to be synonymous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckweath Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Matts4313 said: I think Dak will once again be a top 10 efficient QB (weve seen him be as high as #3 as a rookie). The only highly relative stat to winning is ANY/A and Dak has been good to great at that for 80% of his career. I think his floor is Alex Smith, I think his peak is somewhere above that and mimicking Brady-lite. I feel like you can 100% win a 'Bowl with Dak. I feel like he has been dealt a short hand with crap pass blocking and wr's for a big chunk of the last 2 seasons which has artificially made him look worse. The most winning QBs are the ones that are highly efficient. Dak is highly efficient. Dak's floor is Alex Smith?? More like his floor is that in 3-4 years he will be a backup in this league. Alex Smith during his Chiefs tenure is an excellent comparison for Dak. Don't forget Smith had that one year of borderline MVP play too. They are good game manager QBs who can win a SB but who are/were unlikely to ever win one and need everything around them to be near perfect to get that trophy. It's not fun to read but the truth is Dak Prescott is anything between likely and very likely never to win the Superbowl. But well, it's damn hard to win a SB. Edited August 13, 2019 by Buckweath 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Matts4313 said: So, if that was the case the Cowboys would face a lot of stacked boxes? Right? Why dont the Cowboys face an exorbitant amount of stacked boxes? Especially with Zeke? Zeke faced a stacked box on 25% of his carries. No one with a higher % in the league eclipsed 215 carries. Zeke had over 300. What makes you think the Cowboys don't face a lot of stacked boxes? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Buckweath said: Dak's floor is Alex Smith?? More like his floor is that in 3-4 years he will be a backup in this league. Alex Smith during his Chiefs tenure is an excellent comparison for Dak. Don't forget Smith had that one year of borderline MVP play too. They are good game manager QBs who can win a SB but who are/were unlikely to ever win one and need everything around them to be near perfect to get that trophy. It's not fun to read but the truth is Dak Prescott is anything between likely and very likely never to win the Superbowl. But well, it's damn hard to win a SB. Dak's floor is the stretch we saw starting from Zeke's suspension until they acquired Amari Cooper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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