Dak Thread....still debating, beating a dead horse

[The_Slamman]

Right now, I think everybody needs to take a step back because it’s like trying to assess a hurricane while walking through the eye of the storm.  
 

first, it’s impossible to assess Dalton playing behind this current OL.  Everyone knows this is true.  This is honestly worse than Romo years back when @plan9misfit and I let the hate flow watching Kurt Vollers, Patty M (Gosh, I miss that MFer), Torrin Mother Tucker, Rob Apetititi, and I forget the dude’s name but Jerry thought he’d make a good OG because he placed third in a competitive hot dog eating contest.  We all saw Dak get destroyed just by losing Smith for a few games in 2017.  This is worse across the board.  
 

Second, intellectually all of us understand that this dumpster fire is absolutely the best thing that could happen to our fan base (unless it’s so bad Jerry decides to bring back JG next year... I wouldn’t be surprised btw).  We need a seriously talent infusion on this football team which absolutely cannot happen by maintaining the status quo.  Daboys is 100% right when he points out that over Dak’s past 16 games, the Cowboys have sucked.  That is a fact.  It’s also a fact that during that time frame Dak underperformed against average teams while exploiting horrible teams.  That being said... Dak has the respect of his teammates, is a great leader and gives the cowboys a chance to win every week.  Of course,   the Cowboys losses during that time do not fall squarely on Dak.  But, at the same time... how do you improve a below average time by dedicating an even larger portion of the salary cap to just one player when there are so many needs?

Do we sign a QB to a massive contract in order to maintain average to below average?  Hell no.  Do we let a potential SB caliber QB go with no return on investment?  Hell no.  If we really believe in Dak and want to pay him market value... the best way to improve the team while paying way too much salary cap to a qb is to draft well.  The best way to draft well is to suck in order to get high draft picks.
 

This is simply not a time for “I told you sos.”  Because frankly both sides are right.  This Offseason I fully expect to see Dak get franchised again.  Then, tough decisions need to be made depending on where we draft and whose on the board.  Everything will be on the table from trading Dak, drafting a qb, trading down, or keeping Dak hopefully immediate defensive help.  It will make for an interesting offseason.  

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Did you lose your reading glasses?

Daboys. Let me break this down in elementary school level reading:

What score (as in a # of points) differential (their score subtracted by our score) would constitute getting the "crap beating" you suggested? 

Is the 6 points vs the ram an but kicking?

The lead against the Giants a butt kicking?

The 1 point against the 'Hawks with 11 seconds in the half (8 at half) a butt kicking?

The 10 against the Browns a butt kicking?

WHAT IS THE NUMBER YOU ARE USING TO DEFINE IT?????????????????????????????????

7 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I don’t want to hear anything else about how bad the dark ages were from the Dak fans. Clearly that amount of success just fine.

You clearly dont even know what the Dark ages were for the Cowboys. So you shouldnt speak about things you dont understand. 

Hint: The Dark ages werent after we started drafting HOF players with a HOF coach.

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

first, it’s impossible to assess Dalton playing behind this current OL.  Everyone knows this is true.  This is honestly worse than Romo years back when @plan9misfit and I let the hate flow watching Kurt Vollers, Patty M (Gosh, I miss that MFer), Torrin Mother Tucker, Rob Apetititi, and I forget the dude’s name but Jerry thought he’d make a good OG because he placed third in a competitive hot dog eating contest.  We all saw Dak get destroyed just by losing Smith for a few games in 2017.  This is worse across the board.  

Is it though? I will be interested to see the numbers. The pressure numbers against Dak almost tripled in 2017. Dalton right now is hovering around an 8% pressure rate. In 2017 Dak exceeded 10% after Tyron went out. 

[The_Slamman]

This OL is as bad as any I’ve ever seen.  In 2017, we at least had the threat of a run game to help Dak out.  We don’t even have that this year.  In fact, Zeke has flat out become a liability.  Zeke is the offensive Daryl Worley.  

[atran35]

This OLINE is third string and leaks almost everywhere. I have never seen it this bad and this goes back to the years I watch the Boys during the Danny White Era. And the Defense...OMG...this is just an absolute cluster F of a season. 

Dak will be franchise and given a new contract in 2022. UNLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...we get the no. 1 draft pick which I doubt. But I hope we TANK. There is virtually no chance of winning the SB this year. 

[Texas_OutLaw7]

Guys. I am sorry, but the Dak question has been settled. It was argued that Dalton at 3 Million or Cam at 1 Million was better than Dak at 35+ Million. The question has been soundly defeated.

Getting Dak locked up for anything under 40 per year will be a miracle. At this point, you can keep the Griffens of the world as FA signings. We ride with Dak. There is no additional debate required. 

[The_Slamman]

1 hour ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

Guys. I am sorry, but the Dak question has been settled. It was argued that Dalton at 3 Million or Cam at 1 Million was better than Dak at 35+ Million. The question has been soundly defeated.

Getting Dak locked up for anything under 40 per year will be a miracle. At this point, you can keep the Griffens of the world as FA signings. We ride with Dak. There is no additional debate required. 

Truly idiotic statement.  The only way this could possibly be settled would be to see how the $28M Difference dalton and Dak gets allocated to the rest of the team.  What is settled however is that Dallas is fielding probably its worst defense in team history due in large part to paying Dak $31M.  We lost multiple defensive contributors because we could not afford to keep them.  It is 100% settled that paying Dak $31M this year objectively HURT this football team.  We went from a team that gave up 20 ppg to a team that gives up 34 ppg.  

[TheStarStillShines]

5 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

Truly idiotic statement.  The only way this could possibly be settled would be to see how the $28M Difference dalton and Dak gets allocated to the rest of the team.  What is settled however is that Dallas is fielding probably its worst defense in team history due in large part to paying Dak $31M.  We lost multiple defensive contributors because we could not afford to keep them.  It is 100% settled that paying Dak $31M this year objectively HURT this football team.  We went from a team that gave up 20 ppg to a team that gives up 34 ppg.  

We saw what kind of team the Boys could have when it had a QB making less than $3M - that was Dak on his rookie deal. The team didn't achieve much because the "architects" continually failed to put together a complete team. The problem isn't Dak and his contract. The problem resides in the Joneses and the coaches they've hired, and I know you agree with this.

And as raised multiple times but you continue to discount (at least in this thread but not elsewhere), the big problems reside in the big contracts outside of Dak. There are numerous players who are taking significant chunks of cap space for little production. Making this team better isn't about getting rid of arguably the team's most important player; it's about cutting the fat that exists all over the roster. This includes Zeke, T. & J. Smith, Lee, Cooper, Poe, and many others. It also means not giving guys like Blake Jarwin $9.25M guaranteed. It means drafting better and committing to player development. It means finding bargains in FA. It means stop taking chances (i.e., using draft capital) on high-risk players, whether they're coming off a major injury or had troubles with the law and/or using drugs.

Edited October 27, 2020 by TheStarStillShines

[D82]

 

[Matts4313]

9 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

What is settled however is that Dallas is fielding probably its worst defense in team history due in large part to paying Dak $31M.  We lost multiple defensive contributors because we could not afford to keep them.

Truly idiotic statement. The team lost very little defensive talent (Just Jones and Quinn) because we gave stupid contracts to Zeke, Tank, etc. We know where the money goes - - to players who dont deserve it. 

[D82]

5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Truly idiotic statement. The team lost very little defensive talent (Just Jones and Quinn) because we gave stupid contracts to Zeke, Tank, etc. We know where the money goes - - to players who dont deserve it. 

And this is like...a Jerry/front office issue. You’d think they’d be all over this. Why blame Dak? 

[Matts4313]

 

lol.... "gameball player". Just so this is easy to understand - up is good, down is bad. 

[Matts4313]

Quote

Player	ANY/A	Att	Cmp
Aaron Rodgers	8.51	208	65.9
Patrick Mahomes	8.37	242	65.7
Ryan Tannehill	8.32	203	68.5
Derek Carr	8.26	211	72.0
Russell Wilson	8.24	219	71.2
Justin Herbert	8.15	184	67.4
Deshaun Watson	7.87	239	69.5
Jared Goff	7.74	223	67.7
Dak Prescott	7.72	222	68.0
Josh Allen	7.66	259	67.6
Drew Brees	7.46	212	72.6
Tom Brady	7.40	268	65.7
Matt Ryan	7.22	286	66.4
Teddy Bridgewater	7.21	234	72.2
Philip Rivers	7.14	198	69.7
Jimmy Garoppolo	6.95	124	66.9
Matthew Stafford	6.85	204	62.3
Kyler Murray	6.69	253	66.8
Ryan Fitzpatrick	6.62	197	70.1
Ben Roethlisberger	6.52	214	68.2
Lamar Jackson	6.51	162	63.0
Baker Mayfield	6.30	198	63.1
Kirk Cousins	6.24	175	64.6
Kyle Allen	6.20	80	68.8
Gardner Minshew	6.10	267	65.9
Joe Burrow	5.53	293	66.6
Mitchell Trubisky	5.24	86	59.3
Dwayne Haskins	4.92	146	61.0
Nick Foles	4.58	192	64.1
Cam Newton	4.55	131	67.2
Carson Wentz	4.31	278	58.6
Drew Lock	4.31	102	55.9
Daniel Jones	4.28	231	61.9
Sam Darnold	3.26	161	58.4
Andy Dalton	3.08	85	61.2

data via Pro Football Reference / Stathead

 

[The_Slamman]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Truly idiotic statement. The team lost very little defensive talent (Just Jones and Quinn) because we gave stupid contracts to Zeke, Tank, etc. We know where the money goes - - to players who dont deserve it. 

Do you even think through before you type?  We lost very little defensive talent... only Jones and Quinn?  Not to mention Hyder and Heath who were contributors last year and are currently contributing on other teams. You understand that losing 3 out of 11 starters is  30% of our starters including our sack leader and all pro corner.  Or stated a different way... of the defensive players that were actually worth a damn, we only lost 50% of them.  Again, we went from a defense that gave up 20 points a game to a defense that gives up 34 ppg.  Keep in mind that’s with opposing offenses taking their foot off the gas because they were blowing  us out.  We could very easily be giving up 40 ppg.  That’s what paying Dak $31M this year gave us in return... a historically bad defense.  

[Matts4313]

For the most part, this is conjuncture mixed with lies. 

8 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Do you even think through before you type?  We lost very little defensive talent... only Jones and Quinn?  Not to mention Hyder and Heath who were contributors last year and are currently contributing on other teams. You understand that losing 3 out of 11 starters is  30% of our starters including our sack leader and all pro corner.  

One 2nd team all pro. And we could have kept one or both if we wanted. 

8 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Or stated a different way... of the defensive players that were actually worth a damn, we only lost 50% of them.  Again, we went from a defense that gave up 20 points a game to a defense that gives up 34 ppg.

Nothing to do with coaching/corona or injuries though? Right?

8 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

 Keep in mind that’s with opposing offenses taking their foot off the gas because they were blowing  us out.  We could very easily be giving up 40 ppg.  That’s what paying Dak $31M this year gave us in return... a historically bad defense.  

They are blowing us out now because Dalton sucks compared to Dak. Before Dak's ankle died, we were often relatively close (10 or less points gap) at halftime and at some point in the 4th. So "getting blown out" is a lie.