Dak Thread....still debating, beating a dead horse

[The_Slamman]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

oh my. I just watched the end of that pats game. It took a missed ARZ field goal, a bogus penalty and a last second NE FG for them to win that game.

You mean the same Arizona team that curb stomped our defense and could have dropped 50 on us?  Sounds like maybe we should have taken that $31M we used to pay Dak to upgrade our defense.  Maybe we could have fielded a competitive team then.

[The_Slamman]

Or, words to describe actually winning.   Cam is starting to win while the cowboys regressed this year with Dak.  Yet, only a few of us are smart enough to figure out that the give (making Dak the highest paid qb this year) was not worth the take (taking quality players away from an already average defense).  Cam is winning more with less talent and you guys Still can’t get over stats.

[textaz03]

2 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Or, words to describe actually winning.   Cam is starting to win while the cowboys regressed this year with Dak.  Yet, only a few of us are smart enough to figure out that the give (making Dak the highest paid qb this year) was not worth the take (taking quality players away from an already average defense).  Cam is winning more with less talent and you guys Still can’t get over stats.

Well he also has one of the GOAT’s in Billicheat as his coach as well. There’s a huge difference between Billicheat and McCarthy

[D82]

1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

Or, words to describe actually winning.   Cam is starting to win while the cowboys regressed this year with Dak.  Yet, only a few of us are smart enough to figure out that the give (making Dak the highest paid qb this year) was not worth the take (taking quality players away from an already average defense).  Cam is winning more with less talent and you guys Still can’t get over stats.

Who would you rather have? Belichick and the Patriots defense or Garrett/McCarthy and the Cowboys defense? 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

Or, words to describe actually winning.   Cam is starting to win while the cowboys regressed this year with Dak.  Yet, only a few of us are smart enough to figure out that the give (making Dak the highest paid qb this year) was not worth the take (taking quality players away from an already average defense).  Cam is winning more with less talent and you guys Still can’t get over stats.

It’s entirely unclear to me whether your argument is A) that you don’t need great QB play to win, if they are cheap enough and you use that money to stack the rest of the roster, or B) that Cam Newton is just a straight up better than Dak, leading an inferior team to victory through sheer will to win (and forget having the greatest coach in NFL history).

Anyway, the Patriots won in spite of Cam Newton today. As they mostly have been this season. You either don’t watch the games or don’t know what constitutes winning football yourself. 

[The_Slamman]

2 hours ago, D82 said:

Who would you rather have? Belichick and the Patriots defense or Garrett/McCarthy and the Cowboys defense? 

This question is really weird.  You are asking about a defensive coach for the patriots defense and 2 offensive coaches for the cowboys defense.  
 

who would you rather have... John fassel coach the cowboys special teams or Garrett/McCarthy coach the cowboys special teams.  Now, before you answer that question keep in mind that both McCarthy and Garrett won coach of the year.

[The_Slamman]

2 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

It’s entirely unclear to me whether your argument is A) that you don’t need great QB play to win, if they are cheap enough and you use that money to stack the rest of the roster, or B) that Cam Newton is just a straight up better than Dak, leading an inferior team to victory through sheer will to win (and forget having the greatest coach in NFL history).

Anyway, the Patriots won in spite of Cam Newton today. As they mostly have been this season. You either don’t watch the games or don’t know what constitutes winning football yourself. 

I’ve been very clear on this... I’m saying the cowboys got WORSE by making Dak the highest paid QBs in the nfl this year.  We lost multiple starters on what was already an average nfl defense.  We lost these players because we paid Dak about $28M more than what we paid him in 2019.  We attempted to replace these players with rookies and wayyyyy past their prime (and in some cases never had a prime) vets.  We literally pay Dak about as much as we pay the entire starting defense.  And, I’m saying that Dak is not good enough to overcome what we lost.  I’m also saying that things will get worse next year when we’ll have to pay him close to $38M.  I’m saying we made the same mistake the giants made with Eli’s last contract, the eagles made with wentz, the ravens made with flacco, the lions made with stafford, the rams made with Bradford, etc etc etc.  There are very few nfl QBs that justify the price tag.
 

Now, pay attention... I’m saying that trading Dak to the highest bidder (like the bears who I believe would give up 2 first round picks) and using the money saved on Dak (about $38M) to invest in the defense would strengthen the entire team.  Then, using the multiple quality draft picks to draft BPAs (including QB position).  This draft appears to have at least 5 first round QB prospects.  And, yes, I’m even okay with low range veteran QB like Cam or Darnold as long as they are not being asked to do too much offensively... just like Dak in his rookie year.  Just like the Titans did last year.  There are just too many examples in the nfl of teams winning with low paid QBs to not think that’s it’s a more viable and faster option to make the team competitive.  

 

Here’s the truth... if we pay Dak, it will take about 3-4 years the the nfl salary cap to not make his cap number extremely oppressive.  Those 3-4 years will suck, hard.  On the other hand, we could build a complete team, focus on running the ball offensively and build a great defense and be competitive for the next 5 years because we will have cap flexibility.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

6 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

I’ve been very clear on this... I’m saying the cowboys got WORSE by making Dak the highest paid QBs in the nfl this year.  We lost multiple starters on what was already an average nfl defense.  We lost these players because we paid Dak about $28M more than what we paid him in 2019.  We attempted to replace these players with rookies and wayyyyy past their prime (and in some cases never had a prime) vets.  We literally pay Dak about as much as we pay the entire starting defense.  And, I’m saying that Dak is not good enough to overcome what we lost.  I’m also saying that things will get worse next year when we’ll have to pay him close to $38M.  I’m saying we made the same mistake the giants made with Eli’s last contract, the eagles made with wentz, the ravens made with flacco, the lions made with stafford, the rams made with Bradford, etc etc etc.  There are very few nfl QBs that justify the price tag.
 

Now, pay attention... I’m saying that trading Dak to the highest bidder (like the bears who I believe would give up 2 first round picks) and using the money saved on Dak (about $38M) to invest in the defense would strengthen the entire team.  Then, using the multiple quality draft picks to draft BPAs (including QB position).  This draft appears to have at least 5 first round QB prospects.  And, yes, I’m even okay with low range veteran QB like Cam or Darnold as long as they are not being asked to do too much offensively... just like Dak in his rookie year.  Just like the Titans did last year.  There are just too many examples in the nfl of teams winning with low paid QBs to not think that’s it’s a more viable and faster option to make the team competitive.  

 

Here’s the truth... if we pay Dak, it will take about 3-4 years the the nfl salary cap to not make his cap number extremely oppressive.  Those 3-4 years will suck, hard.  On the other hand, we could build a complete team, focus on running the ball offensively and build a great defense and be competitive for the next 5 years because we will have cap flexibility.

This is rational, at least, even though I disagree with it.

Your tangents on Cam Newton being a winning quarterback and “winning more with less” than Dak Prescott are the things I took issue with. Cam was garbage yesterday, and has been most of the year.

[Matts4313]

39 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

This is rational, at least, even though I disagree with it.

Your tangents on Cam Newton being a winning quarterback and “winning more with less” than Dak Prescott are the things I took issue with. Cam was garbage yesterday, and has been most of the year.

Slam's underlying premise has some merit. He is just being annoying as hell in trying to prove it. 

[D82]

8 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

Here’s the truth... if we pay Dak, it will take about 3-4 years the the nfl salary cap to not make his cap number extremely oppressive.  Those 3-4 years will suck, hard.  On the other hand, we could build a complete team, focus on running the ball offensively and build a great defense and be competitive for the next 5 years because we will have cap flexibility.

I really think had we not had a shortened season, hadn't been hit with so many injuries so early...this team might have looked a lot different. I think Dak gives us the best chance to compete right now, he's a top ten QB and is going to win somebody a championship. I'd rather it be us given all we've invested in him...but I can also see some wanting us to trade him in order to build up the defense which isn't nearly as great as some of us had hoped it would be, thanks in large part to certain players severely regressing or others just not panning out. 

This team has drafted really, really well...so I think your point is that if we can trade away a top-notch player like Dak, hit on a young QB and a couple star players on D...it might give us that spark to win a SB sooner rather than later. I think that's something most of us would agree on. 

[Matts4313]

Oh boy. I just read a notorious FF.com Dak basher say Dak sucks because he is like Drew Brees. Implying that he plays great but is a bad QB because his team loses. 

[quiller]

I would agree totally that our D took a huge down swing from last year to this year. The premise is that our D slipped because Jones wanted to save money to "pay" Dak.  Well I find this a interesting point. The two "FA" that we did not resign are Jones and Quinn.  Quinn got 11.5 sacks for the Dallas Cowboys in 2019. IN 2020 Quinn has 1 sack in 10 games.  So not resigning Quinn was a great decision. I was never upset about loosing Quinn and think A Smith was a suitable replacement. Jones I knew we would miss but also did not want to pay him top CB level money as he is not a top level CB. Jones is the 5th highest pd CB in the NFL. This year he still has no interceptions,  his tackles per game has decreased as has his pass defenses. What I find interesting is people think not paying Dak is some how going to translate to to paying that money to high quality FA on defense that will suddenly improve the D. The problem has been no where in the history of this team when they "weren't" paying Dak did they ever sign a large number of high quality FA on D. The  FA's on D I can name they have signed is D Law and contracts to both Smith.  Jaylon makes right around 7 Million which is half as much as the tenth highest LB at around 14.5 so yes they "paid" Jaylon but they sure didn't break the bank at it.  Aldon Smith leads the cowboys in sacks at 5.  Aldon smith makes 1.4 M, so while he is out performing who he replaced in Quinn this year he also isn't a signing that is breaking the bank.   

Basically you can dream that "not" paying Dak will lead to this team getting better because they will spend the money elsewhere especially on D is the real fantasy. 

 

 

[DaBoys]

Quinn went from a 4-3 DE in Dallas to a 3-4 OLB in Chicago. You can’t just say, “Oh Quinn has 1 sack in Chicago so that’s exactly what he would have done here.” It’s more direct to compare Quinn in 2019 to what he would have been here. Having said that, Aldon, EG, DLaw, and RG have kept our pass rush afloat this year. I really don’t feel like edge rusher is the problem with our D. 
 

The loss of Byron Jones undeniably hurt us. This is not up for debate. And up until Donovan Wilson took over at safety, we had failed to upgrade Jeff Heath. Our safeties were atrocious this first 7 weeks. At least Heath somewhat held his own back there.  Our DTs are god awful. And our LBs have been pathetic. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by DaBoys

[DaBoys]

We signed Poe and McCoy for cheap and paid Dak, while letting Byron walk. 
 

The Giants brought in Bradberry who is probably one of the best CBs this year, and DT Leonard Williams who has 6 sacks so far. 
 

I’d rather have Byron, Bradberry, and Williams, than almost any 1 QB. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by DaBoys

[DaBoys]

12 hours ago, quiller said:

I would agree totally that our D took a huge down swing from last year to this year. The premise is that our D slipped because Jones wanted to save money to "pay" Dak.  Well I find this a interesting point. The two "FA" that we did not resign are Jones and Quinn.  Quinn got 11.5 sacks for the Dallas Cowboys in 2019. IN 2020 Quinn has 1 sack in 10 games.  So not resigning Quinn was a great decision. I was never upset about loosing Quinn and think A Smith was a suitable replacement. Jones I knew we would miss but also did not want to pay him top CB level money as he is not a top level CB. Jones is the 5th highest pd CB in the NFL. This year he still has no interceptions,  his tackles per game has decreased as has his pass defenses. What I find interesting is people think not paying Dak is some how going to translate to to paying that money to high quality FA on defense that will suddenly improve the D. The problem has been no where in the history of this team when they "weren't" paying Dak did they ever sign a large number of high quality FA on D. The  FA's on D I can name they have signed is D Law and contracts to both Smith.  Jaylon makes right around 7 Million which is half as much as the tenth highest LB at around 14.5 so yes they "paid" Jaylon but they sure didn't break the bank at it.  Aldon Smith leads the cowboys in sacks at 5.  Aldon smith makes 1.4 M, so while he is out performing who he replaced in Quinn this year he also isn't a signing that is breaking the bank.   

Basically you can dream that "not" paying Dak will lead to this team getting better because they will spend the money elsewhere especially on D is the real fantasy. 

 

 

We didn’t sign anyone when we were paying Dak so little because we had a high priced QB in Tony Romo. We paid Romo like $108M when he was in his 30s already. So when we had to cut him a few years later his money stayed on the books for 3 of Daks first 4 years. 
 

Bad QB contracts can haunt you.