Dak Thread....still debating, beating a dead horse

[The_Slamman]

6 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Dak for $1M or Cam for $1M?

Dak for $1m for sure.  

[TheStarStillShines]

6 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

That's just ignorant.  I've been saying all along that it's all about the cap management not the players.  Cam at $1M + $30M in other players is better than just Dak at $31M.  Just to put things in context... Hell yes, I would rather have Cam, Stephon Gilmore, and Devin McCourty ($30.4M against the cap) than Dak by himself at $31M against the cap.

Just to be clear... I'm also saying that the Cowboys have a better chance of winning over the next 5 years if we trade Dak to the highest bidder which would probably yield 2 first round draft picks.  IMO rookie QB, + 2 first round draft picks + $30M in other players is way better than just Dak by himself at $37M.  

If it was so easy to build a team around a rookie QB and allocate the money to other areas of a football team, every NFL franchise would be a contender. The Bears, Cardinals, and Jaguars would be juggernauts seeing how frequently they rotate rookie QBs. 

It's obviously not as simplistic as you make it since we all know that finding a franchise-caliber QB is the most difficult thing to do in football. The majority of a SB winners have had a franchise-caliber QB at the helm. There are obviously exceptions, but in those cases we're talking about teams that were extremely well-rounded, had a high-caliber backup, and one of the best defences of all-time. 

The best teams manage their cap extremely efficiently while drafting and developing players extremely well. They also have excellent coaching staffs that create an environment that lives, breathes, and breeds success. The Boys don't have all these things. It's not about tying a lot of money into one player; it's a myriad of issues that plague the team.

Edited December 8, 2020 by TheStarStillShines

[DaBoys]

31 minutes ago, TheStarStillShines said:

If it was so easy to build a team around a rookie QB and allocate the money to other areas of a football team, every NFL franchise would be a contender. The Bears, Cardinals, and Jaguars would be juggernauts seeing how frequently they rotate rookie QBs. 

The Cardinals are pretty good, and beat the hell out of us. The Bears are falling apart but started 5-1, and had the same record as Dak and the Cowboys last year. The Jaguars have drafted defense 6 of their last 7 1st round picks, and Fournette. So they don’t really fit the criteria here.

They DID take a QB 7 years ago, made the AFC championship game during the last year of his rookie contract, and narrowly lost to the Pats. Then they, you know, gave the QB a big contract that off season and were never heard from again. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by DaBoys

[TheStarStillShines]

3 hours ago, DaBoys said:

The Cardinals are pretty good, and beat the hell out of us. The Bears are falling apart but started 5-1, and had the same record as Dak and the Cowboys last year. The Jaguars have drafted defense 6 of their last 7 1st round picks, and Fournette. So they don’t really fit the criteria here.

They DID take a QB 7 years ago, made the AFC championship game during the last year of his rookie contract, and narrowly lost to the Pats. Then they, you know, gave the QB a big contract that off season and were never heard from again. 

Slam just said pick a QB in the draft. He didn't say which round. Given this, Jacksonville has selected a QB in the last 3 consecutive drafts and 5 out of 7.

Chicago has just taken Trubinsky in the past 7 years, but the Bears offer a case study on what happens in thinking you can nab a great QB in the first round - or #2 overall.

Arizona hasn't drafted a great QB since Neil Lomax in 1981, and Lomax was more good than great. That's almost 40 years ago! If someone wants to argue Jake Plummer was great, well, ok, but that was 1997. They've whiffed on  Rosen and Leinart. And it's too early to say if Murray will be great. He has had his ups and downs, and he still has significant limitations. He should have a long career, but I'm not sold that he's a franchise QB. Again, the Cardinals are another example of how difficult it is to draft, develop, and keep a franchise QB or at least a Pro Bowl-calibre QB. It's not as easy as saying, "Hey, let's get rid of Dak, draft a QB and ride the rookie, and use the money in other areas and voila the Boys are instantly a better team."

Edited December 8, 2020 by TheStarStillShines

[JohnCena]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:04 PM, The_Slamman said:

So, cam Newton (at $1m salary) With a bunch of nobodies just beat the ravens... something Dak absolutely could not have done under similar circumstances.  That game would have been an L every time with Dak.  

Dak could have absolutely done that with Bill Belichik as his coach. Cam barely did anything for us in that game it was won inspite of Cam not because of him, all the games we have won this year have been down to Bill Belichik. 

[JohnCena]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:51 PM, TheStarStillShines said:

Giving Newton the credit for the Patriots beating the Ravens is pure idiocy, considering the Patriots ran the ball 39 times and Newton threw a total of 17 passes. The Pats' defence also played exceptionally well. If Dallas had NE's defence, maybe they win more games when Dak was healthy. But hey, let's blame the QB for not stopping the opposition from scoring. 

Even our defense ain't that good bruh this is one of the worst defenses we had in years, I bet you can't name a single player in that front 7. We lost all our starting linebackers last year which was one of the best linebacker cores in the league last year and we're playing nobodies, rookies, and free safeties at linebacker. The only thing we have going for us on defense is that secondary but what good is that when the opposing QBs have 5-10 seconds to throw the ball. Our defense is honestly all that more talented than you're guys defense it's just coached much better. I can guarantee you that you're defense would look wayyy better than the our defense if you guys had Belichik coaching it and we had Mike Nolan coaching it. 

[DaBoys]

8 hours ago, TheStarStillShines said:

Slam just said pick a QB in the draft. He didn't say which round. Given this, Jacksonville has selected a QB in the last 3 consecutive drafts and 5 out of 7.

I think Slam would agree that he meant upper tier QB prospects in the draft.  This money ball strategy isn’t really designed for late round development guys like DiNucci. If that was the case then we wouldn’t even need to draft a QB. Just sign a CFL or XFL guy for the vet min. 
 

The Cowboys haven’t spent a 1st rounder on a QB since 1989. That’s the longest positional 1st round drought on our team, and probably the longest first round QB drought in the NFL. We haven’t found a Watson, Mahomes, Allen, blue chip type prospect because we haven’t tried. 
 

If Kyler Murray has ups and downs and limitations, then what does Dak have? I 100% believe you wouldn’t be so low on Murray if he had a star on his helmet. 
 

Kylers 2nd year through 12 games:

3,652 total yards and 32 total TDs

 

Daks full 16 game 2nd season:

3,681 total yards 28 total TDs.

 

Daks the GOAT who deserves a Mahomes contract, but we aren’t sold on the limited Kyler Murray yet.... 

I don’t know why I continue to wear the homer avatar around here. It clearly isn’t me.

 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

6 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I think Slam would agree that he meant upper tier QB prospects in the draft.  This money ball strategy isn’t really designed for late round development guys like DiNucci. If that was the case then we wouldn’t even need to draft a QB. Just sign a CFL or XFL guy for the vet min. 
 

The Cowboys haven’t spent a 1st rounder on a QB since 1989. That’s the longest positional 1st round drought on our team, and probably the longest first round QB drought in the NFL. We haven’t found a Watson, Mahomes, Allen, blue chip type prospect because we haven’t tried. 
 

If Kyler Murray has ups and downs and limitations, then what does Dak have? I 100% believe you wouldn’t be so low on Murray if he had a star on his helmet. 
 

Kylers 2nd year through 12 games:

3,652 total yards and 32 total TDs

 

Daks full 16 game 2nd season:

3,681 total yards 28 total TDs.

 

Daks the GOAT who deserves a Mahomes contract, but we aren’t sold on the limited Kyler Murray yet.... 

I don’t know why I continue to wear the homer avatar around here. It clearly isn’t me.

 

No one thinks Dak deserves a new contract based on what he did in his 2nd NFL season...

[DaBoys]

28 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

No one thinks Dak deserves a new contract based on what he did in his 2nd NFL season...

Yeah.... you right. Everyone who rides Dak rn has been doing it since his rookie season. His 2nd and third year didn’t faze any of you. 
 

I mean this thread is two years old, my guy.

Edited December 8, 2020 by DaBoys

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

34 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Yeah.... you right. Everyone who rides Dak rn has been doing it since his rookie season. His 2nd and third year didn’t faze any of you. 
 

I mean this thread is two years old, my guy.

If you weren't a fan of Dak in his rookie season, you are insane. People have always been optimistic about Dak's potential as a franchise QB, this is true. But that's entirely different than being completely onboard with a record breaking contract. 

When we try to compare apples to apples, you guys say " We're talking about oranges, stupid". Then we bring out the oranges, and you guys say "but what about the cumquats!"

 

[DaBoys]

7 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

If you weren't a fan of Dak in his rookie season, you are insane. People have always been optimistic about Dak's potential as a franchise QB, this is true. But that's entirely different than being completely onboard with a record breaking contract. 

When we try to compare apples to apples, you guys say " We're talking about oranges, stupid". Then we bring out the oranges, and you guys say "but what about the cumquats!"

 

Pot calling the kettle black. You said nobody thinks Dak deserves a contract based on his 2nd year. I pointed out that this thread was started after his equally unimpressive 3rd year. You say well his rookie year WAS great!! 
 

We say to use our first rounder to draft a QB, you guys point out the Jaguars drafting Menshew and Lutton in the 6th round and ask why they aren’t great yet. Like, you guys are smart enough to not over complicate this. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by DaBoys

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

3 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Pot calling the kettle black. You said nobody thinks Dak deserves a contract based on his 2nd year. I pointed out that this thread was started after his equally unimpressive 3rd year. You say well his rookie year WAS great!! 

If you are going to argue that Dak's 2nd and 3rd seasons were "equally unimpressive", you are not debating in good faith. Dak won 7 of his last 8 and won a playoff game in 2018. If you can't see why people had a lot more optimism following that seasons, then I can't help you. There were tons of reasons to be optimistic about his trajectory, and no one thought he could command the biggest contract in league history at that point.

[DaBoys]

1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

If you are going to argue that Dak's 2nd and 3rd seasons were "equally unimpressive", you are not debating in good faith.

He passed for the exact same amount of TDs in 2017 as he did in 2018. He rushed for the exact same number of TDs in 2017 as he did in 2018. He rushed for more yards in 2017 and passed for about 500 yards more in 2018 and had a 4.8% better completion %. His Y/A was 1.0 better in 2018 than 2017.

The two seasons were statistically very similar. Yes the Cowboys won two more games and a WC, but that does little to sway the argument. You see, Daks best two seasons are easily his 4th year, and this shortened season, but the Cowboys are 8-13 over that period with zero playoff wins. I won’t argue that they are Daks worst years though. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by DaBoys

[atran35]

At this point, I'm convince the Jones will re-sign Dak Prescott. The NFC East Teams QB are all on thin ice with the exception of Alex Smith. The Eagles are done with Carson...all hail the Hurt Era. The Giants are going to have to make a decision with Daniel Jones whom has been awful this year. I think the Jones will franchise and eventually re-sign Dak. Hopefully, we can hit on the draft picks...and FA. It still kills me to see TJ WATT on the Steelers. 

[The_Slamman]

19 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

He passed for the exact same amount of TDs in 2017 as he did in 2018. He rushed for the exact same number of TDs in 2017 as he did in 2018. He rushed for more yards in 2017 and passed for about 500 yards more in 2018 and had a 4.8% better completion %. His Y/A was 1.0 better in 2018 than 2017.

The two seasons were statistically very similar. Yes the Cowboys won two more games and a WC, but that does little to sway the argument. You see, Daks best two seasons are easily his 4th year, this shortened season, but the Cowboys are 8-13 over that period with zero playoff wins. I won’t argue that they are Daks worst years though. 

Let’s not forget that Dak’s wins and impressive games have literally comes against the worst teams in the NFL the last 2 years (with the exception of the rams games last year).  His stat compilation looks a lot less impressive when you consider that lots of those stats came against bottom 5 teams or against prevent defenses.  Somewhere earlier in this thread you will see a discussion between Matts and me where Matts was gushing over stats last year.  I then pointed out that Dan Jones and Jameis Winston put up identical stats against bottom 5 teams.

 

For me, here is the bottom line... the team got appreciably worse since last year.  When went from an average team to a bottom 5 team and the main cause of the downfall was paying Dak. I’ll ask again... how can anybody expect the team to get better by paying Dak $37M?  Especially if the salary cap goes down?