DaBoys Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, Northland said: I'm a Dak fan but I hope he is working with his agent to figure a way to get out of Dallas fast. Never going to win a thing here. If all he wants is money maybe it happens with Jerry. If one's goal is to compete for a championship then Dallas is about the last place anyone would want to be. I imagine money is the driving factor. He isn’t leaving Dallas for a team that offers less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: I imagine money is the driving factor. He isn’t leaving Dallas for a team that offers less. I'm being too idealistic. Jerry will give him the $. He will never win anything but Jerry will pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 6 hours ago, TheStarStillShines said: Fair enough. I'm all for dealing Dak if the Boys can draft Lawrence or Fields. I'm also of the opinion that replacing Dak won't be as easy as some people think should the Boys not have a top-2 or -3 pick. A team can only go so far with the Andy Daltons of the world. You can do ok with the Daltons of the world, just need a lot more to go right for him than you would Dak. Dalton hasn't played great but had we had Tyron Lael and Martin, im sure Dalton could get us 75% of Dak at what 15% of the salary? Spend the extra $30 mill to fix the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarStillShines Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 If the goal is to stay mediocre, then continue to get QBs of Dalton's caliber. The likelihood of winning the SB is pretty low, though, if history tells us anything. Another way to look at things is if the team didn't have over $23M in dead cap space, maybe the defence would have been better this year. The team has a projected $28.5M in cap space for next year, but they'll free up more space by restructuring the contracts of Cooper ($20M base salary for next year), Lawrence ($17M base salary), and likely Zeke (wouldn't be surprised if he's asked to take a pay cut). Additional savings could be found by cutting T. Smith, Jarwin, Anthony Brown, Zuerlein, and Chris Jones. Those five would save the team another $13.5M. The Boys, as such, could have as much as $50M+ in cap space even under a $177M salary cap. If Dak re-signs, the average value will likely be around $39M / $40M (thanks to Deshaun Watson's new deal), but the cap hit in the first year will probably in the low $30M. BTW, the Patrick Mahomes' extension is a work of genius by KC and Mahomes' agent. It could provide the framework for Dak's new deal, whether it's with Dallas or another team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, TheStarStillShines said: If the goal is to stay mediocre, then continue to get QBs of Dalton's caliber. The likelihood of winning the SB is pretty low, though, if history tells us anything. Another way to look at things is if the team didn't have over $23M in dead cap space, maybe the defence would have been better this year. The team has a projected $28.5M in cap space for next year, but they'll free up more space by restructuring the contracts of Cooper ($20M base salary for next year), Lawrence ($17M base salary), and likely Zeke (wouldn't be surprised if he's asked to take a pay cut). Additional savings could be found by cutting T. Smith, Jarwin, Anthony Brown, Zuerlein, and Chris Jones. Those five would save the team another $13.5M. The Boys, as such, could have as much as $50M+ in cap space even under a $177M salary cap. If Dak re-signs, the average value will likely be around $39M / $40M (thanks to Deshaun Watson's new deal), but the cap hit in the first year will probably in the low $30M. BTW, the Patrick Mahomes' extension is a work of genius by KC and Mahomes' agent. It could provide the framework for Dak's new deal, whether it's with Dallas or another team. A top five pick and a resulting trade down with a QB needy team could result in a lot of ammo to retool the defense as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acowboys62 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 14 hours ago, The_Slamman said: So what you are saying is that it’s easier to play QB in the nfl in this era. You are saying that while there is always risk in drafting a qb, over the past 5 years it’s more likely that a qb will work out especially if there is a quality team around the QB. That’s reasonable. it seems to me that the absolute best thing to do then would be to trade Dak to the highest bidder. We use the extra draft picks and the $30+ million saved to upgrade the entire roster so the new QB has a great supporting cast. We take advantage of the low cost QB for the next 5 years. I like the way you think TSSS. This sounds like a much better alternative than paying Dak $37M and not being able to upgrade the team. Question for you. Do you have more confidence that this team can A) Accidently be a contender with a QB who has proven he can be successful with this roster or B) Get rid of said QB and rely fully on the FO to draft the right guys and rebuild an entire defense? It feels like the equivalent to would you rather be kicked or punched in the junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarStillShines Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, D82 said: A top five pick and a resulting trade down with a QB needy team could result in a lot of ammo to retool the defense as well... Indeed. Maybe some team will be desperate to take the 3rd-best QB, whether that is Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Kyle Trask, Mac Jones, or someone who rockets up the charts during the off-season workouts. There could be a lot of QBs available in this year's draft, assuming most of them declare. One issue working against the Boys is that not many teams have multiple first-round picks in this year's draft. Two that do are likely picking first and second (the Jets and Jaguars, respectively) while a third (Miami) has its QB of the present and future. The second issue is not many team immediately behind the Boys need a QB. Carolina and Atlanta might be looking for their QBs of the future. Chicago most likely will want to grab a top QB, but at this moment they're picking 13th. Washington definitely will be looking for a QB, but do you make an intra-divisional trade of that magnitude? SF is a wild card, depending on how much they value Jimmy G. The Boys might need a team picking in the bottom half of the 1st round to offer a ransom to move up (Tampa Bay, Las Vegas, possibly Tennessee, Indianapolis, Minnesota). Or deal Dak to one of these playoff-contending teams. Gruden would probably drool at the thought of Dak running his offence. Dak in Indy could vault the Colts to contender status. Maybe Jerry and Stephen could fleece Minnesota again. Edited December 10, 2020 by TheStarStillShines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, TheStarStillShines said: Indeed. Maybe some team will be desperate to take the 3rd-best QB, whether that is Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Kyle Trask, Mac Jones, or someone who rockets up the charts during the off-season workouts. There could be a lot of QBs available in this year's draft, assuming most of them declare. One issue working against the Boys is that not many teams have multiple first-round picks in this year's draft. Two that do are likely picking first and second (the Jets and Jaguars, respectively) while a third (Miami) has its QB of the present and future. The second issue is not many team immediately behind the Boys need a QB. Carolina and Atlanta might be looking for their QBs of the future. Chicago most likely will want to grab a top QB, but at this moment they're picking 13th. Washington definitely will be looking for a QB, but do you make an intra-divisional trade of that magnitude? SF is a wild card, depending on how much they value Jimmy G. The Boys might need a team picking in the bottom half of the 1st round to offer a ransom to move up (Tampa Bay, Las Vegas, possibly Tennessee, Indianapolis, Minnesota). Or deal Dak to one of these playoff-contending teams. Gruden would probably drool at the thought of Dak running his offence. Dak in Indy could vault the Colts to contender status. Maybe Jerry and Stephen could fleece Minnesota again. My favorite option would to be able to draft Fields or Lawrence and trade Dak for at least a 1st and 3rd, use the other first and take the best defensive player. Problem is odds are very likely that Lawrence and Fields go 1 and 2. Next best scenario would be trade down and get extra picks and rebuild defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, TheStarStillShines said: Indeed. Maybe some team will be desperate to take the 3rd-best QB, whether that is Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Kyle Trask, Mac Jones, or someone who rockets up the charts during the off-season workouts. There could be a lot of QBs available in this year's draft, assuming most of them declare. One issue working against the Boys is that not many teams have multiple first-round picks in this year's draft. Two that do are likely picking first and second (the Jets and Jaguars, respectively) while a third (Miami) has its QB of the present and future. The second issue is not many team immediately behind the Boys need a QB. Carolina and Atlanta might be looking for their QBs of the future. Chicago most likely will want to grab a top QB, but at this moment they're picking 13th. Washington definitely will be looking for a QB, but do you make an intra-divisional trade of that magnitude? SF is a wild card, depending on how much they value Jimmy G. The Boys might need a team picking in the bottom half of the 1st round to offer a ransom to move up (Tampa Bay, Las Vegas, possibly Tennessee, Indianapolis, Minnesota). Or deal Dak to one of these playoff-contending teams. Gruden would probably drool at the thought of Dak running his offence. Dak in Indy could vault the Colts to contender status. Maybe Jerry and Stephen could fleece Minnesota again. I think Chicago might be the team to look at in trading down. Possibly San Francisco as well as I don't think they're sold on Garoppolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 If the plan is to keep Dak, which I'm good with, and we end up with a top 5 pick, I'm good with trading back and taking O line and Dline in the 1st round and then LB in the 2nd. After that, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 15 hours ago, D82 said: There have been a ton of drops, missed fgs, and fumbles killing our efficiency and ppg. We lead the league in drops by a good margin. http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232 We have a top 16 offense over the last 4 games, which were against the #3, #24, #4, and #8 defenses. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-game If we had any defense, and stopped dropping/fumbling the ball, we could win with this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, acowboys62 said: Question for you. Do you have more confidence that this team can A) Accidently be a contender with a QB who has proven he can be successful with this roster or B) Get rid of said QB and rely fully on the FO to draft the right guys and rebuild an entire defense? It feels like the equivalent to would you rather be kicked or punched in the junk. There definitely is an organization problem. We all know that it starts with Jerry who sets the culture which is based on marketing first and football second. Honestly, the biggest challenge that i still see with the organization is finding a truly excellent head coach. Part of me believes that Jerry doesn’t truly want a BB type coach who would be the authoritarian figure for the franchise. That being said, I think the team can draft fairly well at the top end of the draft. I think where we lack is developing the mid to late round guys into being contributors. We lack a team identity. We lack fundamental responsibility or as BB would say... do your job football. How nice would it be to see Jaylon Smith play technically sound, assignment football? That’s all coaching. So to answer your question, I’d first have to whose the head coach? If BB is our head coach who is meticulous in coaching technique and assignment responsibility... stability at QB would probably be preferred. And then trust the head coach to develop players to contributing to team identity. We’ve seen BB do this for 2 decades in NE. Late round guys can contribute because they know their assignments and are disciplined. If we are talking about just a typical head coach alla McCarthy I would 100% go the route of young QB which is something he is supposed to excel at developing. Let the organization continue to draft well at the top end. Use the money saved on QB to fill in the huge holes on the roster. Edited December 10, 2020 by The_Slamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 hours ago, DaBoys said: There have been a ton of drops, missed fgs, and fumbles killing our efficiency and ppg. We lead the league in drops by a good margin. http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232 We have a top 16 offense over the last 4 games, which were against the #3, #24, #4, and #8 defenses. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-game If we had any defense, and stopped dropping/fumbling the ball, we could win with this offense. You spend so much time trying to make excuses for our crappy QB play lately. Its amazing. If you spent half as much time realizing we have a great QB on the roster already you might have a more enjoyable time. We literally already had a poster leave because he realized Dak carried our team... PS: you using drops is ironic, since we led the entire league in them last year and you still gave dak hell. Where were the excuses then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I also want to point out that every one saying our WR core is so amazing is wrong. They cant catch. Its their only job and they fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I also want to point out that every one saying our WR core is so amazing is wrong. They cant catch. Its their only job and they fail. I also find it funny that people are now realizing this and using it to defend the Ginger...but weren’t willing to use it when they led the league in drops last year with Dak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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