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Dak Thread....still debating, beating a dead horse


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3 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I think Watson and Dak are in the same general ballpark as players. But, that said, Watson is cheaper and a few years younger. So it would be intriguing. 

I think so too as it's a win-win for both teams. The Texans would get a top 10 QB and for Dallas it would solve our QB conundrum since Watson is younger, more talented and already under contract. In regards to Watson's cap hit, I think both teams can work that out and split the hit.  

I would pull the trigger and offer Dak + 75th pick. If that doesn't get it done, I would offer Dak + 44th pick. This deal is better than any deal the Texans could get, instead of something with Sam Darnold, Kirk Cousins or Tua.

Edited by Tony7188
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19 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

Good. A trade like this would give these Cowboys players a reality check that they need from their "holier than thou" attitude.

By trading for Watson? A guy who is quitting the team on the first year of his contract he just signed *because he wasnt allowed to pick the GM and HC*. You literally cant get a more entitled attitude than Watson. 

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10 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Dak is one of very few guys on this team that doesn't pull **** like that. His refusal to hold out in 2019 or '20 is probably the single biggest reason he hasn't received an extension.

I was trying to say above that, yeah, maybe letting Dak hit UFA as early as this offseason would constitute a bizarre attempt by the Joneses to "send a message" to all the malcontents and general disappointments in our locker room. It would obviously backfire because the sad reality is they're the ones who've fostered this circus-like atmosphere.

Agree 100% with the bolded. In order for this team to go anywhere they have to get the players who are not 100% all in on football, out of Dallas. It's sad that a player can tell the media "Watch the film" when asked if he'll be back in 2021. As if his film showed that he was a All-Pro player and he had no faults in his game.

As for Dak, he's been a great player and leader in Dallas. But he and the F.O. has been fighting over a contract extension for too long. At some point, you need to "cut your losses" and move on. The Cowboys was here before Dak Prescott and they'll be here after Dak Prescott. If you let him hit UFA, it would be very bizarre. Dak will be signed instantly and then we're screwed at QB.

However, trading Dak for another QB that's equal to (or higher) than him is the perfect way to send a message to that soft minded, coddled locker room. If we want a true culture change, this is one way to do it.

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33 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

By trading for Watson? A guy who is quitting the team on the first year of his contract he just signed *because he wasnt allowed to pick the GM and HC*. You literally cant get a more entitled attitude than Watson. 

It's not only because he wasn't allowed to pick the GM and HC, it's because they lied. Houston is arguably one of the worst run franchises in the NFL. They let their former HC be the GM and completely gut that team to satisfy his own pride, alienating the best player to ever play for their franchise. They told Watson they would keep him in the loop on their FO search and get his opinion. They even had a study done that recommended them the best GM and HC candidates. Not only did they not interview the people the study recommended, but they hired whoever they wanted and didn't tell Watson anything. The HC they just hired has never even been a offensive coordinator, which is unbelievable.

I can't blame Watson for wanting out of a dysfunctional organization who makes questionable choices and tells lies. What have they done to give him any faith in that organization? He should want out.

Edited by Tony7188
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3 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

However, trading Dak for another QB that's equal to (or higher) than him is the perfect way to send a message to that soft minded, coddled locker room. If we want a true culture change, this is one way to do it.

I just think you might as well start over at that point. Cut/trade virtually everyone over 24, 25 or so. Keep McCarthy to the play Marrone/Gase role as you tank for the first overall pick.

I agree this team is extremely soft, but the locker room responding negatively to Dak's ousting wouldn't be a reflection of that so much as a rational response to an unideal and eminently avoidable outcome. The only potential upgrade out there is Watson, who probably costs you more like Dak + 2 firsts than Dak + a 2nd given how much the Texans would be on the hook for financially, and also might not help your coddled/whiny culture problems too much.

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6 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

Houston is arguably one of the worst run franchises in the NFL. They let their former HC be the GM and completely gut that team to satisfy his own pride, alienating the best player to ever play for their franchise. They told Watson they would keep him in the loop on their FO search and get his opinion. They even had a study done that recommended them the best GM and HC candidates. Not only did they not interview the people the study recommended, but they hired whoever they wanted and did tell Watson anything. The HC they just hired has never even been a offensive coordinator.

I can't blame Watson for wanting out of a dysfunctional organization who makes questionable choices and tells lies. What have they done to give him any faith in that organization? He should want out.

Nick Caserio was a coveted GM hire. The HC is a very odd choice though. But you know why Watson wasnt consulted? Its because he is refusing to speak to the team he just robbed of a signing bonus he had no intention of honoring. 

 

There are a lot of things to love about Watson. But he is acting like a whiny toddler throwing a temper tantrum. 

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4 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

I just think you might as well start over at that point. Cut/trade virtually everyone over 24, 25 or so. Keep McCarthy to the play Marrone/Gase role as you tank for the first overall pick.

I agree this team is extremely soft, but the locker room responding negatively to Dak's ousting wouldn't be a reflection of that so much as a rational response to an unideal and eminently avoidable outcome. The only potential upgrade out there is Watson, who probably costs you more like Dak + 2 firsts than Dak + a 2nd given how much the Texans would be on the hook for financially, and also might not help your coddled/whiny culture problems too much.

I'm not opposed to that either. Remember this team was still 1-4 (almost 0-5) with Dak playing out of his mind. Unless the F.O. changes the way they approach F.A., our star players will be past their prime by the time the defense is fixed.

As for Dak's ousting, it's unideal yes, but how would it be an avoidable outcome? The Jones's have clearly stated that they want Dak to give them a discount and he doesn't want to do it. They've been haggling over this for almost 2 years now and no one has given in. That locker room has nothing to be negative about imo, it's not like the locker room gave a discount to the team so that they could sign Dak. They all took the most money they could. And when that happens, there's a possibility great players can not be re-signed.  

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17 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Nick Caserio was a coveted GM hire. The HC is a very odd choice though. But you know why Watson wasnt consulted? Its because he is refusing to speak to the team he just robbed of a signing bonus he had no intention of honoring. 

 

There are a lot of things to love about Watson. But he is acting like a whiny toddler throwing a temper tantrum. 

You do realize the cause and effect of this situation right? The cause is that the Texans lied to their franchise QB and gutted that roster for years, leading to the effect of Watson not refusing to speak to the team and requesting a trade.

Watson does carry some fault for signing that deal, but he most likely did so with "promises" from the F.O. that things would change. But that head coaching hire and the executive VP (Jack Easterby) still being there is probably what the last straw was for Watson. You can call it a temper tantrum, but it's no different than what most stars in professional sports would do in his situation. 

Edited by Tony7188
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3 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

You do realize the cause and effect of this situation right? The cause is that the Texans lied to their franchise QB and gutted that roster for years, leading to the effect of Watson not refusing to speak to the team and requesting a trade.

He signed the contract 4 months ago...

3 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

Watson does carry some fault for signing that deal, but he most likely did so with "promises" from the F.O. that things would change. But that head coaching hire and the executive VP (Jack Easterby) still being there is probably what the last straw was for Watson.

The team fired the HC/GM, hired a coveted GM from the Pats. Obviously the coach and Easterby are not ideal, but he isnt even giving him a shot. Apparently he hasnt spoken to anyone with the team since the season ended. Its not like he was trying to be involved. 

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45 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

I'm not opposed to that either. Remember this team was still 1-4 (almost 0-5) with Dak playing out of his mind. Unless the F.O. changes the way they approach F.A., our star players will be past their prime by the time the defense is fixed.

As for Dak's ousting, it's unideal yes, but how would it be an avoidable outcome? The Jones's have clearly stated that they want Dak to give them a discount and he doesn't want to do it. They've been haggling over this for almost 2 years now and no one has given in. That locker room has nothing to be negative about imo, it's not like the locker room gave a discount to the team so that they could sign Dak. They all took the most money they could. And when that happens, there's a possibility great players can not be re-signed.  

Ok, good for them. No QB with Dak's track record in his first 4-5 years has taken a sub-market deal at this stage of his career, at least not since 2011 or so and the start of the last CBA. Carr, Stafford, Jimmy G and Cousins all reset the market with zero combined playoff wins. Like 8 young (relatively speaking) QBs in a row became the new highest paid QB by AAV from 2017-2019 before Goff and Wentz slid in under Wilson.

You can't trust the Joneses, they're pieces of ****- who knows how much GTD money in that alleged 5/175/106 offer was actually fully guaranteed? They know they have to make Dak the highest paid QB (by at least some metric, be it AAV or guarantees) to retain him because that's just how this works. They also know they can dump him, not lose their jobs and still be the most valuable franchise in sports this time next year. They created this, which is what makes it avoidable.

Edited by matt79511
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44 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

He signed the contract 4 months ago...

The team fired the HC/GM, hired a coveted GM from the Pats. Obviously the coach and Easterby are not ideal, but he isnt even giving him a shot. Apparently he hasnt spoken to anyone with the team since the season ended. Its not like he was trying to be involved. 

It's not just Watson that is upset with the franchise. It's Watt as well. They traded off their other best player, let Mathieu walk. 

The franchise is a mess. Watson is a stand up guy in the community. He's their star player. He absolutely should have a say in those decisions. I totally get his frustrations. 

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1 hour ago, Tony7188 said:

I'm not opposed to that either. Remember this team was still 1-4 (almost 0-5) with Dak playing out of his mind. 

2-3, almost 4-1 with the defense playing absolutely horrific. And against the meat of our difficult schedule (3 playoff teams, an underrated Falcons team).

12 minutes ago, D82 said:

It's not just Watson that is upset with the franchise. It's Watt as well. They traded off their other best player, let Mathieu walk. 

They fired the GM that made those choices. Watt is mad at the whole franchise; his teammates included. He called them out to the public. 

Quote

The franchise is a mess. Watson is a stand up guy in the community. He's their star player. He absolutely should have a say in those decisions. I totally get his frustrations. 

He absolutely 100% should not have any "say" on who the GM/HC is. Them allowing him the opportunity to be part of the discussions is a privilege. How many people decide who their bosses (QB Coach), bosses (OC) boss (HC) and that guys boss (GM) is as well. 

I dont think I have ever heard of any QB with that sort of input with the front office. What would even make Watson qualified? 

Edited by Matts4313
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What kinda frustrates me about all this talk about trading Dak for Watson is Watson right now has a 4yr- 39M a year deal, so that is what we would be taking on. IF our Front office had offered say 4 yr 37M to Dak he probably would have signed it on the spot.  I also am not sold on Watson being the equal of Dak at this point, but yes they are close enough to the same that it probably is a wash.

I also frankly wouldn't want to wish the Texan's franchise on anyone right now they have been a total mess sense the inception, totally unable to put together a quality franchise.  

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18 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

2-3, almost 4-1 with the defense playing absolutely horrific. And against the meat of our difficult schedule (3 playoff teams, an underrated Falcons team).

They fired the GM that made those choices. Watt is mad at the whole franchise; his teammates included. He called them out to the public. 

He absolutely 100% should not have any "say" on who the GM/HC is. Them allowing him the opportunity to be part of the discussions is a privilege. How many people decide who their bosses (QB Coach), bosses (OC) boss (HC) and that guys boss (GM) is as well. 

I dont think I have ever heard of any QB with that sort of input with the front office. What would even make Watson qualified? 

@Matts4313 I agree, players dont need a say in who the coach or GM should be.

If you ask them for their input, you hire a consulting firm and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars to recommend someone, then go in a completely different direction because your VP of Operations with no football experience (at least to my knowledge) changes the owner's mind, then I think DeShaun has every right to ask for a trade.

Yes, he did sign a contract extension. However no one knows the conversations that were had at that time. Did DeShaun keep up his end? Did the organization keep up theirs?

 

 

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1 hour ago, quiller said:

What kinda frustrates me about all this talk about trading Dak for Watson is Watson right now has a 4yr- 39M a year deal, so that is what we would be taking on. IF our Front office had offered say 4 yr 37M to Dak he probably would have signed it on the spot.  I also am not sold on Watson being the equal of Dak at this point, but yes they are close enough to the same that it probably is a wash.

I also frankly wouldn't want to wish the Texan's franchise on anyone right now they have been a total mess sense the inception, totally unable to put together a quality franchise.  

Who ever trades for Watson would only owe like $28m/yr for the next 5 years.

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