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Dak Thread....still debating, beating a dead horse


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another oddity...  in this age of QB's.     Right now arguably the top QB's in football are..

Mahomes, Rogers, Wilson then Maybe Brady  after that Allen.

Mahomes 1st round pick sat out his first year. Rogers 1st round pick sat out his first 3 years Wilson 4th round pick, Brady 6th round pick.  

and side note on Allen..   next year is his fourth year on his four year contract and last chance for Buffalo to get to the super bowl on his rookie contract. 

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54 minutes ago, textaz03 said:

But but but Franchise QB’s have to be found in the 1st Round 🙄🙄

Of the QBs drafted in those years, Russell Wilson is probably the only one not taken in the top 3 picks that has had a comparable or better career than Dak (there were a lot of names to sift through, maybe I missed 1 other, but I don’t think so)

Franchise QBs are very hard to find in general, but that’s especially so after the first round.

The logic that Dak isn’t special, I strongly disagree with, but I can at least follow that argument.

The logic that QBs are a dime-a-dozen, or easy to find, or that you are better off rolling the dice on a rookie than paying big money for anyone who didn’t print their ticket to Canton during their rookie contract, is hard for me to understand. I tend to think it’s just a bolt-on argument for people who want to bolster their precarious opinion that Dak is mediocre. 

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My main point about posting the oddity of the top 5 QB's in the NFL, as opposed to the narrative that you need the 1st round QB to build your program is that their is no guarantee with the 1st few picks in the draft that you can get a top 5 level QB. 

I am worried and at this point think it's 50/50 that we have Dak as a Dallas Cowboy QB this coming season.  

What I do understand about the future of this team should Dak be gone is also this narrative that because we are not spending $ on Dak that the front office will now start spending $ on getting a1 FA to play for the cowboys to make the team "better". Well I am not going to hold my breath as in all the years I HAVE NEVER seen Jones regularly get in a bidding war for the top FA's in football at any position especially on DEFENSE.    YES we've added a number of offensive players mostly WR types.   But on D... not so much, maybe Dion, Ken Norton...   but sense then...  WHO...  we did resign DLaw I guess but who else have we ever brought in and paid premium $ for.   Mostly we've always found some one to play that is in the middle ground for middle $. 

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1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Of the QBs drafted in those years, Russell Wilson is probably the only one not taken in the top 3 picks that has had a comparable or better career than Dak (there were a lot of names to sift through, maybe I missed 1 other, but I don’t think so)

Franchise QBs are very hard to find in general, but that’s especially so after the first round.

The logic that Dak isn’t special, I strongly disagree with, but I can at least follow that argument.

The logic that QBs are a dime-a-dozen, or easy to find, or that you are better off rolling the dice on a rookie than paying big money for anyone who didn’t print their ticket to Canton during their rookie contract, is hard for me to understand. I tend to think it’s just a bolt-on argument for people who want to bolster their precarious opinion that Dak is mediocre. 

It’s really that hard for you to understand?  Name just name 1 team over the past 5-6 years that has BENEFITTED from extending a good (not great) QB by giving the QB top 10 money.  Now, look at all the teams that overpaid good QBs and see how it worked out for them.  Hell, how did the Cowboys BENEFIT from making Dak the highest paid QB in the NFL last year?  Overpaying good QBs does not work.  

Flacco

Carr

Goff

Wentz

Garoppolo

Newton

Stafford

Palmer 

Cousins

Bradford

Even the Seahawks are now ready to move on from Wilson.  They can’t field a complete team while paying him $35M.  
 

So, yeah, it makes a lot more sense to draft a QB, pay him very little (comparatively) and try to stack the roster around him.  That strategy is actually working over the past 5-6 years.  Plenty of teams in the nfl are making deep playoff runs with QBs on their rookie deals.  

 

 

 

Edited by The_Slamman
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On 2/17/2021 at 1:35 PM, D82 said:

Who haven't we been able to re-sign? Jones? They could have done that too but chose not to. 

Riiiiiiight.  The cowboys were like... Screw keeping the best CB we’ve had since Newman.  We’ve got Anthony Mother Effing Brown!!!!  And Chido!!!  We’re set Beeches!!!

Naw Dawg... paying Dak $28M more last year prevented us from keeping Jones, etc. And it hurt the team.  Worst defense in the history of the franchise.

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21 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Riiiiiiight.  The cowboys were like... Screw keeping the best CB we’ve had since Newman.  We’ve got Anthony Mother Effing Brown!!!!  And Chido!!!  We’re set Beeches!!!

Naw Dawg... paying Dak $28M more last year prevented us from keeping Jones, etc. And it hurt the team.  Worst defense in the history of the franchise.

Not extending Dak sooner hurt us. Extending a RB hurt us. Giving Jaylon an extension hurt us. 

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1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

It’s really that hard for you to understand?  Name just name 1 team over the past 5-6 years that has BENEFITTED from extending a good (not great) QB by giving the QB top 10 money.  Now, look at all the teams that overpaid good QBs and see how it worked out for them.  Hell, how did the Cowboys BENEFIT from making Dak the highest paid QB in the NFL last year?  Overpaying good QBs does not work.  

Flacco

Carr

Goff

Wentz

Garoppolo

Newton

Stafford

Palmer 

Cousins

Bradford

Even the Seahawks are now ready to move on from Wilson.  They can’t field a complete team while paying him $35M.  
 

So, yeah, it makes a lot more sense to draft a QB, pay him very little (comparatively) and try to stack the roster around him.  That strategy is actually working over the past 5-6 years.  Plenty of teams in the nfl are making deep playoff runs with QBs on their rookie deals.  

 

 

 

if your all about saving money sure.. but I am not convinced and we will agree to disagree that this is the WAY to be a year in year out SUPERBOWL contender.  

UMMM  I don't agree with the comment Seahawks moving because of Wilson's salary.   And you can get back to me and say told you so when Seatle is a super bowl fav with out Wilson as the QB.

I would also like to add this is a two part situation. 

The other part is Jones.  Who as I have mentioned is never known to spending freely on the D on high level free Agents. 

Edited by quiller
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1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

It’s really that hard for you to understand?  Name just name 1 team over the past 5-6 years that has BENEFITTED from extending a good (not great) QB by giving the QB top 10 money.  Now, look at all the teams that overpaid good QBs and see how it worked out for them.  Hell, how did the Cowboys BENEFIT from making Dak the highest paid QB in the NFL last year?  Overpaying good QBs does not work.  

Flacco

Carr

Goff

Wentz

Garoppolo

Newton

Stafford

Palmer 

Cousins

Bradford

Even the Seahawks are now ready to move on from Wilson.  They can’t field a complete team while paying him $35M.  
 

So, yeah, it makes a lot more sense to draft a QB, pay him very little (comparatively) and try to stack the roster around him.  That strategy is actually working over the past 5-6 years.  Plenty of teams in the nfl are making deep playoff runs with QBs on their rookie deals.  

 

 

 

We can keep going around in circles on this for another 200 pages. But no, I think the premise of letting a top-5ish QB walk to gamble on a rookie is a downright silly proposition.

You don’t think Dak is that good, fine. I don’t want to extend Flacco or Bradford, either. 

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1 hour ago, quiller said:

if your all about saving money sure.. but I am not convinced and we will agree to disagree that this is the WAY to be a year in year out SUPERBOWL contender.  

UMMM  I don't agree with the comment Seahawks moving because of Wilson's salary.   And you can get back to me and say told you so when Seatle is a super bowl fav with out Wilson as the QB.

I would also like to add this is a two part situation. 

The other part is Jones.  Who as I have mentioned is never known to spending freely on the D on high level free Agents. 

No, it’s not about SAVING money.  It’s about MAXIMIZING money.  The salary cap is finite.  Anyway you slice up the pay, money has to be spent. But when 1 player takes a disproportionate amount of the cap, that one player better be able to make up for the shortfall.  For example, Russell Wilson is extremely frustrated his OL sucks.  He had a damn good OL when he was playing in SBs. The Seahawks can’t do both... have a damn good OL and pay Russell 20% of the cap.  Russell is actually good enough to make up for a lot of the shortfall cause he’s athletic and elusive, etc.  he makes them a contender even while being highly paid.  But that’s not the case with the less than GREAT QBs.  As applied to the cowboys, when the cowboys paid Dak $28M more in 2020 than they did in 2019, it came at the expense of losing players like Jones, Quinn, Collins, Heath and Hyder.  As a result the cowboys fielded their all time worst defense.  

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2 hours ago, D82 said:

Not extending Dak sooner hurt us. Extending a RB hurt us. Giving Jaylon an extension hurt us. 

You mean, giving mediocre players franchise money hurts the team? You don’t say.

That’s why I don’t support paying a mediocre (at best) QB $40 million a season. Funny how that works.

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I think everyone agrees Dak is a top 10 QB (personally I think it's fair to say top 7). 

So when the term mediocre is being thrown out does that mean you consider all QBs who are non-elite (say the top 3) to be mediocre? Is the tiers elite, mediocre, garbage? 

And I know I'm deviating, but what position holds the best value to re-sign? It's not OL since the good ones are in short supply so people pay for barely starter quality. It's. Kt WR given the recent success of rookies. Forget RBs. Is it DTs? I guess safety since the nfl so highly undervalues them. 

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Jimmy Garropolo has the highest QB win percentage in league history. Deshaun Watson just went 4-12 last year. How strange it is that the former is a candidate for a pink slip this offseason and the latter would cost 4 or 5 first round picks via trade. One would think it'd be the other way around.

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