plan9misfit Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 53 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Tom Brady for $25m Now that we have extra money, sign Byron, Quinn, Cooper, and Collins. With Burrow, and Young guaranteed to be gone, if the Giants go OL, then either Okudah or Simmons will be there at 5. Draft 1.5 - Simmons/Okudah/Brown/Tua 1.17 - Ruggs/Mims/Kinlaw/Henderson 1.18 - Herbert/Weaver/Gross-Matos/ 2.51 - Delpit/Winfield Jr/Higgins Lots of possibilities If you told me that I could get Simmons, Kinlaw, and Herbert in the 1st round with Brady as the starting QB for 2 years, I’d do it in a heartbeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetFancyMoses Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, DaBoys said: Tom Brady for $25m Now that we have extra money, sign Byron, Quinn, Cooper, and Collins. With Burrow, and Young guaranteed to be gone, if the Giants go OL, then either Okudah or Simmons will be there at 5. Draft 1.5 - Simmons/Okudah/Brown/Tua 1.17 - Ruggs/Mims/Kinlaw/Henderson 1.18 - Herbert/Weaver/Gross-Matos/ 2.51 - Delpit/Winfield Jr/Higgins Lots of possibilities Let's make it a trifecta. Take all 3 1sts and send them fat Zeke too. Drop down to the early 2nd with the last one, get a 1st for next year, and draft Johnathan Taylor(Thomas). Edited March 11, 2020 by SweetFancyMoses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 hours ago, The_Slamman said: What did philly get for trading Sam Bradford? Fair point Slam but didnt the Vikings make the deal because of the horrible injury suffered by Bridgewater? Minnesota saw their season going up in flames. If yes then it was a perfect storm so to speak which influenced compensation. So if similar circumstances presented themselves I would listen to offers on Dak or anyone. Never say never. A word of caution. QB's are hard to find and develop. I remenber the dark years between Aikman and Romo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Northland said: Fair point Slam but didnt the Vikings make the deal because of the horrible injury suffered by Bridgewater? Minnesota saw their season going up in flames. If yes then it was a perfect storm so to speak which influenced compensation. So if similar circumstances presented themselves I would listen to offers on Dak or anyone. Never say never. A word of caution. QB's are hard to find and develop. I remenber the dark years between Aikman and Romo. That league doesn't exist anymore. It's a whole new pass happy league where rookies from all rounds are performing well. Kyle Allen, Gardener Menshew, and yes even Dak Prescott. Guys who weren't supposed to be starters in this league are doing just fine under the new rules. Baker Mayfield broke Peyton Mannings rookie passing record. Kyler Murray wouldn't even have been able to play in the NFL in the 90s. Only three times in NFL history has a rookie quarterback thrown for at least 300 yards in a game with four touchdown passes and no interceptions. Two of those performances were by Daniel Jones this season. Hell, even Haskins was coming on at the end of the year. 2015 saw the league set records for completions, attempts, completion percentage, passing yards and passing touchdowns while simultaneously posting the lowest interception rate in league history. Wake up. It's not 1998 anymore Edited March 11, 2020 by DaBoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, DaBoys said: That league doesn't exist anymore. It's a whole new pass happy league where rookies from all rounds are performing well. Kyle Allen, Gardener Menshew, and yes even Dak Prescott. Guys who weren't supposed to be starters in this league are doing just fine under the new rules. Baker Mayfield broke Peyton Mannings rookie passing record. Kyler Murray wouldn't even have been able to play in the NFL in the 90s. Only three times in NFL history has a rookie quarterback thrown for at least 300 yards in a game with four touchdown passes and no interceptions. Two of those performances were by Daniel Jones this season. Hell, even Haskins was coming on at the end of the year. Wake up. It's not 1998 anymore I think it’s easier now to facsimile production out of meh QBs than any point in league history as passing statistics have skyrocketed in general, but I wouldn’t say that mitigates the value of a truly top tier QB. I mean look at the guys you just listed. Baker is getting Browns’d hardcore, Jones also broke the rookie fumbles record, Minshew got benched IIRC. I hear those that dispute that Dak is a Top 7-8 QB, it’s certainly debatable. But as far which QB in the league today you’d take for the next 5-10 years... he has a strong case for 4th at worst, behind Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson- it’s either Dak or Wentz next and the latter just keeps getting hurt. It’s hard to say that’s not valuable because guys like Darnold, Allen, Murray, Burrow, Tua, Lawrence, etc... *could* be good. You don’t willingly go back into QB wilderness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, matt79511 said: I think it’s easier now to facsimile production out of meh QBs than any point in league history as passing statistics have skyrocketed in general, but I wouldn’t say that mitigates the value of a truly top tier QB. I mean look at the guys you just listed. Baker is getting Browns’d hardcore, Jones also broke the rookie fumbles record, Minshew got benched IIRC. I hear those that dispute that Dak is a Top 7-8 QB, it’s certainly debatable. But as far which QB in the league today you’d take for the next 5-10 years... he has a strong case for 4th at worst, behind Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson- it’s either Dak or Wentz next and the latter just keeps getting hurt. It’s hard to say that’s not valuable because guys like Darnold, Allen, Murray, Burrow, Tua, Lawrence, etc... *could* be good. You don’t willingly go back into QB wilderness To me, in this league, signing a guy like Brady, Rivers, Teddy, or Tanne, picking up 2 first round picks and using 1 of your 3 firsts to draft Tua or Herbert or Love isn't the QB wilderness. The money we would save would let us sign our team. I'd rather have Quinn, Byron Jones, Cooper, Collins, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, Isaiah Simmons, and Javon Kinlaw Not just Dak, Cooper and CJ Henderson with holes all over the roster and a QB that takes up 20% of our cap. The latter seems more like wilderness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I’m in the camp of taking advantage of QB rookie contracts. During those 5 years, the tremendous money saved on QB can be used to build up a helluva team around the QB. We are seeing it more and more including the Dak’s rookie year. Baltimore and KC were probably 2 best teams in NFL this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Don't worry. Miami would never trade two firsts for Dak. Go ask their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, DaBoys said: That league doesn't exist anymore. It's a whole new pass happy league where rookies from all rounds are performing well. Kyle Allen, Gardener Menshew, and yes even Dak Prescott. Guys who weren't supposed to be starters in this league are doing just fine under the new rules. Baker Mayfield broke Peyton Mannings rookie passing record. Kyler Murray wouldn't even have been able to play in the NFL in the 90s. Only three times in NFL history has a rookie quarterback thrown for at least 300 yards in a game with four touchdown passes and no interceptions. Two of those performances were by Daniel Jones this season. Hell, even Haskins was coming on at the end of the year. 2015 saw the league set records for completions, attempts, completion percentage, passing yards and passing touchdowns while simultaneously posting the lowest interception rate in league history. Wake up. It's not 1998 anymore Interesting position. I will stand by my contention that it is not a sure thing drafting a QB in the first round. If you have a guy you think you can win with stick with him. If you don't think your QB is the guy then make plans to move on. Here's a list of guys drafted in the first round over the last 10 years who made little impact on the league. Paxton Lynch, Christian Ponder, Josh Rosen, Johnny Manziel, Blaine Gabbert,Tim Tebow, EJ Manuel,Jake Locker,Brandon Weeden, and Blake Bortles (did lead the Jags to 2017 AFC Championship, but the Jags lost two thirds of his starts over 5 seasons). You may be right. We could trade Dak, get those picks, build a solid core and draft a kid at QB and not miss a beat. Despite the NFL being a pass happy league, and some QB's stepping in and doing well, there have been a lot of QB's who have entered the league who fail miserably. Edited March 11, 2020 by Northland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I would need more than two first round picks for a QB who is still in his prime, hasn't missed a game since becoming a starter and has a winning record - and, if last year is any indication, is only getting better. Yes, the NFL is a pass happy league and increasingly becoming more QB-friendly. We're seeing QBs who may not have had success in the "old" NFL do well now. But, it's still hit-or-miss and no guarantee you can find a QB who can lead you to a Super Bowl win. I think we have one, so why trade him and gamble you can find his successor? The salary cap isn't an issue. It's only going to continue to increase, so it's not a matter of if you pay the QB you can't field a competitive team around him. There's too much info out there that proves this. If the front office continues to draft well, and if they finally decide to utilize some of that cap space to bring in actual legit players vs. middle of the pack FA depth, this team can stay competitive for a while (assuming this staff pans out and won't keep us stuck in mediocrity a la Garrett). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, D82 said: I would need more than two first round picks for a QB who is still in his prime, hasn't missed a game since becoming a starter and has a winning record - and, if last year is any indication, is only getting better. Yes, the NFL is a pass happy league and increasingly becoming more QB-friendly. We're seeing QBs who may not have had success in the "old" NFL do well now. But, it's still hit-or-miss and no guarantee you can find a QB who can lead you to a Super Bowl win. I think we have one, so why trade him and gamble you can find his successor? The salary cap isn't an issue. It's only going to continue to increase, so it's not a matter of if you pay the QB you can't field a competitive team around him. There's too much info out there that proves this. If the front office continues to draft well, and if they finally decide to utilize some of that cap space to bring in actual legit players vs. middle of the pack FA depth, this team can stay competitive for a while (assuming this staff pans out and won't keep us stuck in mediocrity a la Garrett). I'm on board with paying him. The money saved alone isn't enough to build a juggernaut team. It's just that IF someone desperate wanted to offer me two first round picks I would probably take that depending on who the team was. I like my chances of building a juggernaut team with the money I'd save, and 6 picks in the first two rounds over the next two years. I like my chances of finding a cheaper QB in free agency(especially this year), and/or a QB in the first(this year or next). And hand him the keys to a Ferrari. Than I do about going into next season with a slightly less talented roster and different coaches. 1 hour ago, Northland said: You may be right. We could trade Dak, get those picks, build a solid core and draft a kid at QB and not miss a beat. I'm not worried about "missing a beat." We aren't that good. Our team isn't that good. Dak played great last year but I'm not passing up an opportunity to build a dynasty, just to keep him. Unless he proves he can win with a descending above average team that's about to lose more pieces. I don't think you realize just how bad we were last year. 8-8 that's made worse by the fact that we had 5 wins against teams that are picking top 5 of the draft this year. So we were 3-8 vs teams who won't pick in the top 5 this year. No I'm not worried about missing a beat. Edited March 11, 2020 by DaBoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 23 hours ago, The_Slamman said: QUESTION: if you’re Jerry and Miami calls and offers you 5 and 18 right now for Dak, who would take it? I would. If I’m Jerry yes I do it. If I am a fan I’m not happy. Dak gives us a fighters chance of doing something in play offs if we resign coop and Quinn. With out Dak we might have a good year but I give us zero chance in playoffs and almost zero chance during Zeke’s effective years. I watched a ton of Brady games last year play offs and everything he was a barely better then average QB and He didn’t out play any QB he faced. That includes DAK remember it was the special teams that won that game not Brady. So I just say no to Brady or Mariota or Ryan or Flacco or rivers Or Stratford. the only way I see this working is if a major package can be put together to get us Tua. And leave us at least 1 more 1st and all the rest of our picks. Burrow would be great but cost too much oh. Reason Jerry might say yes it solves his money issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 49 minutes ago, DaBoys said: I'm on board with paying him. The money saved alone isn't enough to build a juggernaut team. It's just that IF someone desperate wanted to offer me two first round picks I would probably take that depending on who the team was. I like my chances of building a juggernaut team with the money I'd save, and 6 picks in the first two rounds over the next two years. I like my chances of finding a cheaper QB in free agency(especially this year), and/or a QB in the first(this year or next). And hand him the keys to a Ferrari. Than I do about going into next season with a slightly less talented roster and different coaches. I'm not worried about "missing a beat." We aren't that good. Our team isn't that good. Dak played great last year but I'm not passing up an opportunity to build a dynasty, just to keep him. Unless he proves he can win with a descending above average team that's about to lose more pieces. I don't think you realize just how bad we were last year. 8-8 that's made worse by the fact that we had 5 wins against teams that are picking top 5 of the draft this year. So we were 3-8 vs teams who won't pick in the top 5 this year. No I'm not worried about missing a beat. I know how bad we were. Go back and check the pre season poll question as to what we thought the Cowboys record would be in 2019. I think I said 7-9 and they limped to 8-8. I think I had a handle on the reality of our club from the beginning. I certainly wasn't dreaming of a 12-4, or 13-3 season last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 To me last years team was “good enough” to go 10-6 easy. Here isn’t the place to debate why but talent was not a issue in field production was. We have the players now we have a problem keeping all the players. Dak finally got to the place where he was making decisions good decisions in the offense. Our offense especially the way the OL played last year us not QB friendly. Now who knows going forward so much has changed with new coach that the problems we faced last year are a thing of the past but we talk about how “great” Mahomes is and yes he is the best young QB right now but don’t forget he sat a year and watched a weak QB(Alex Smith) lead KC to 3rd in NFL in points in 2017 his Rookie year 536 was huge and awesome but back to earth last year 451 barely better then What Smith did. I would say a lot of how well QBs do is how well they match the pieces around him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Lots of questions right now about the state of the club. But I think we find out this year how much of our problem was talent or coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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