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DigInBoys

Which team do you think is overrated and will underachieve?

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36 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

I believe I read that since 1986 there have only been like 8 or 9 teams that had a higher defensive DVOA than Chicago had last year.  They were literally a historically great defense last year. 

Here's a list of the Top of the 2019 NFL Draft, filled with the worst teams in the league
The ones in bold were on the bears schedule in 2018

Arizona
SF
NYJ
Oak
TB
NYG
JAX
Det x 2
Buf
Den
CIN
GB x 2
Miami

11 out of 16 games ( 69%)  vs the bottom of the league.
We will see how that historic defense does vs a much harder schedule and without Fangio calling the shots

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, DigInBoys said:

Goff was 4th in passing yards last year, how is that not elite?

A) To be an actual elite QB, you need a much larger sample size over a period of several years. Goff has had 2 seasons in the NFL in which he has played well.

B) The Rams offense is loaded in about every way possible. Extremely good O-line, possibly the best WR group in the NFL, elite RB, great offensive minded HC, etc. If you threw a Kirk Cousins or Matt Stafford into that offense, I'm sure that they would put up just as good (If not better) numbers.

C) Passing yards on it's own is not a very important stat anyways. The two QB's I just mentioned have both had seasons in which they threw for several hundred more yards than Goff did last year. Does that mean they are elite? No.

A QB can't truly ever be called elite until you see what they can do without elite talent around them. Derek Carr was an MVP Candidate in 2016 when he had an elite line and a very good WR core - now he's considered average at best. I didn't consider Russell Wilson elite until I saw him carry an offense with the worst OL in the league and fairly average talent at the skill positions. Brady took an offense with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gafney as it's top 2 receiving threats and made it top 10.

Edited by Bolts223

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10 hours ago, DigInBoys said:

Goff was 4th in passing yards last year, how is that not elite?

Goff was good last season but you have to take the circumstances into account as well. Goff had a top OL, top 3 RB and top WR/TE group to help him out. Would he be elite with Miami's weapons?

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9 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Goff was good last season but you have to take the circumstances into account as well. Goff had a top OL, top 3 RB and top WR/TE group to help him out. Would he be elite with Miami's weapons?

He still has to make the throws lol. Sean McVay isn’t the one throwing dimes. Watch him out duel Mahomes and Brees. All I need to know that he’s a special special boy. Brady was cheeks in that Super bowl too btw. If cooks catches that pass we’re talking about different circumstances and we forget that Bears-Lions game.

 

 

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11 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Goff was good last season but you have to take the circumstances into account as well. Goff had a top OL, top 3 RB and top WR/TE group to help him out. Would he be elite with Miami's weapons?

Brady would be elite with Miami’s weapons because he’s an elite QB. But he wouldn’t put up “elite” numbers

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On 8/15/2019 at 9:36 PM, Bolts223 said:

For me personally it has nothing to do with the Browns history and everything to do with so many question marks.

Like could the Browns be great this year and be a real contender in the AFC? Sure. It's possible. I kinda view the Browns the same way I viewed the Eagles going into 2017.

That doesn't change the fact that it's not likely to happen. I think they have a decent amount of talent on that roster, I do like Baker, but I think 9-7 is probably a safe bet. I think people are really still sleeping on the Steelers and that they are probably still the better team for now. 

I have them at 10-6. Not far off.

I guess I don't get the question marks. Kitchens is new, but could he be worse than Hue? Is OBJ truly a locker room cancer? The O-line lost one guy at RG - is it possible the replacement could be average? What other question marks are there?

I mean, if those are the ONLY question marks then I'm happy with that. If this were any other team in the league I feel like people would be predicting 12 or 13 wins. I just think people are afraid of buying into the hype and feel safer being on-the-fence contrarians. That way they can play both sides depending on the outcome.

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12 minutes ago, Vee-Rex said:
On 8/15/2019 at 9:36 PM, Bolts223 said:

For me personally it has nothing to do with the Browns history and everything to do with so many question marks.

Like could the Browns be great this year and be a real contender in the AFC? Sure. It's possible. I kinda view the Browns the same way I viewed the Eagles going into 2017.

That doesn't change the fact that it's not likely to happen. I think they have a decent amount of talent on that roster, I do like Baker, but I think 9-7 is probably a safe bet. I think people are really still sleeping on the Steelers and that they are probably still the better team for now. 

I have them at 10-6. Not far off.

I guess I don't get the question marks. Kitchens is new, but could he be worse than Hue? Is OBJ truly a locker room cancer? The O-line lost one guy at RG - is it possible the replacement could be average? What other question marks are there?

I mean, if those are the ONLY question marks then I'm happy with that. If this were any other team in the league I feel like people would be predicting 12 or 13 wins. I just think people are afraid of buying into the hype and feel safer being on-the-fence contrarians. That way they can play both sides depending on the outcome.

Yeah, I'm not sure on the question marks either if he is talking about the roster. Maybe below average at RG and kicker and a few average starters at LB, the OTs and a safety. Then you have one of the top rooms at Dline, WR and RB.

I don't mind the overall prediction of 9-7 though, it's tough to win and that's doing it more than not. I certainly think the roster is better than the Steelers, although they have a good roster also.

If it's about coaching we'll just have to see. I wouldn't trade Kitchens for Tomlin though. We know Tomlin is solid but I much prefer Freddie's tough but yet player's coach mentality. He seems hard on his players but he also has their back, it's a good combination. He also knows football very well and is always open to adapting to better ideas which holds so many coaches back.

 

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8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure on the question marks either if he is talking about the roster. Maybe below average at RG and kicker and a few average starters at LB, the OTs and a safety. Then you have one of the top rooms at Dline, WR and RB.

I don't mind the overall prediction of 9-7 though, it's tough to win and that's doing it more than not. I certainly think the roster is better than the Steelers, although they have a good roster also.

If it's about coaching we'll just have to see. I wouldn't trade Kitchens for Tomlin though. We know Tomlin is solid but I much prefer Freddie's tough but yet player's coach mentality. He seems hard on his players but he also has their back, it's a good combination. He also knows football very well and is always open to adapting to better ideas which holds so many coaches back.

 

You wouldn't take a guy who is a Super Bowl winning coach with exactly 0 losing seasons in 12 years and the second highest winning percentage of active coaches (behind Belichick) over a guy who has never been a HC at any level in his life?

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1 hour ago, Soggust said:

You wouldn't take a guy who is a Super Bowl winning coach with exactly 0 losing seasons in 12 years and the second highest winning percentage of active coaches (behind Belichick) over a guy who has never been a HC at any level in his life?

I wouldn't. He seems to be a great offensive mind and that is more important than ever. His personality and Alabama accent are just a bonus.

Granted, after 8 weeks I may look like an idiot or a blind homer since nothing has been proven on the field so maybe I am weighing my projection a bit heavy but I have been thoroughly impressed and am expecting him to win the division as a rookie head coach.

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 8:58 PM, warrenblue said:

Browns. They're not winning the division and I wouldn't be surprised if the finish 4th in the AFC north even behind the Bengals.

They're like the 2013 Lakers with Nash, Kobe, Artest, Gasol and Howard. Too much hype, ego and no substance.

You'd have more credibility if a) you weren't a Ravens fan b) you didn't see any possibility the Bengals finish ahead of the Browns

I get the talk about teams like the Steelers and Ravens still being strong contenders in the AFCN.  But takes like this just come off as unintelligent and sour grapes. 

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4 hours ago, NateDawg said:

You'd have more credibility if a) you weren't a Ravens fan b) you didn't see any possibility the Bengals finish ahead of the Browns

I get the talk about teams like the Steelers and Ravens still being strong contenders in the AFCN.  But takes like this just come off as unintelligent and sour grapes. 

I could see the Bengals finish above the Browns

(If Baker Mayfield dies)

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On 8/18/2019 at 5:29 AM, SBLIII said:

Goff was good last season but you have to take the circumstances into account as well. Goff had a top OL, top 3 RB and top WR/TE group to help him out. Would he be elite with Miami's weapons?

These hypotheticals always give me a chuckle merely because they never take into account who's actually coaching. You pair a good QB with a good coach and they will make it work with any receiving group.

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On 8/17/2019 at 6:59 PM, DigInBoys said:

Goff was 4th in passing yards last year, how is that not elite?

Passing yards isn't a stat that makes you Elite. 4th isn't Elite either way. 

Elite is not something that is done over 1 or 2 seasons. Elite also has to do with mass public perception, like it or not. Elite QBs elevate the players around them. Goff by all intents and purposes, while not a bad QB at all, certainly is a beneficiary of the system around him.

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7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I wouldn't. He seems to be a great offensive mind and that is more important than ever. His personality and Alabama accent are just a bonus.

Granted, after 8 weeks I may look like an idiot or a blind homer since nothing has been proven on the field so maybe I am weighing my projection a bit heavy but I have been thoroughly impressed and am expecting him to win the division as a rookie head coach.

Respectfully, I think that's kind of a blind homer take regardless of how he performs. You could be totally right and he could be the next McVay or whatever, but realistically at this point, it's like saying "I wouldn't trade Daniel Jones for Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes because he looks like he could be a great QB". He totally could be. But the other option is a proven success (I get you could argue Mahomes isn't "proven" yet, I just picked him to avoid an age argument if I used Brady or Brees or whatever as an example). I sure hope Kitchens succeeds for Cleveland's sake, but at this point, it's ridiculous to not take Tomlin over him from an unbiased perspective.

Also, we have seen time and time again where a great OC doesn't make a great coach. Furthermore, he only had 8 games as a great OC. Again, I'm not trying to bash on Kitchens AT ALL, and I hope him the best. I'll even agree that things seem to be trending in the right direction for him. I'm just saying it's a bit premature at this point to project success (or failure), when in reality - He's just an unknown. 

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5 hours ago, NateDawg said:

You'd have more credibility if a) you weren't a Ravens fan b) you didn't see any possibility the Bengals finish ahead of the Browns

I get the talk about teams like the Steelers and Ravens still being strong contenders in the AFCN.  But takes like this just come off as unintelligent and sour grapes. 

I'm going to sound like a total Cleveland basher here (especially with my previous post) and it's really not like that, but in the NFL anything is a possibility. The Browns are certainly set up to have a great season, but since their reinstatement 20 years ago, the Browns have had exactly 2 winning seasons (9 and 10 wins in those seasons). I hate to use the "Cleveland gonna Cleveland" logic, but it's certainly not an unrealistic take that the Browns could underperform (as any team could) this season and finish below the Bengals. Until they prove they can be a contender, it's certainly understandable that people are hesitant to buy into the hype.

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