Activated10 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On 8/9/2019 at 11:04 PM, ET80 said: Bill O'Brien was there from 07-12. Do not underestimate this. Your hate for Bill O'Brein is hilarious. He seems like an above average coach at minimum. Dude has great record and most of time he had scrub QBs to work with. Watson put up great numbers with him as well. Could you please give detailed response on why you don't like O'Brein. Edit: Splitting this out into a new topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Activated10 said: Could you please give detailed response on why you don't like O'Brein. You have to consider - most of that "winning record" comes from a time when Tennessee and Jacksonville were picking in the top 5. I'd imagine his W-L record against teams under .500 is CONSIDERABLY better than his record against teams over .500. His 1-3 playoff record includes two blowouts at home - a 30-0 drubbing against the Chiefs in 2015 (when Alex Smith was starting) and the 21-7 beatdown this past season vs the Colts. His only win was against a Raiders team that had Connor Cook making his first playoff start, so that was basically a gift. His in game decision making is bland and predictable - first down will always be a pass, and if it's incomplete, 2nd and 10 will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be a handoff up the middle to Lamar Miller. Every single time. You can guarantee a WR screen on 3rd and short. He doesn't play to the teams' strengths - we have a RB who is suited for plays in space or off tackle, but he runs him between the G/C every time - doesn't even try to utilize him in space. He's got athletic TEs who aren't good blockers - but all they do is block. He's got a bad pass blocking OL, but they move well in space, and a QB who can move laterally and throw on the run as well as any QB in the league. So, rolling pockets and throws on the run? Nope, standard blocking sets and 5-7 step drops. Bill O'Brien is the Kirk Cousins of HCs. He's capable of hanging up big numbers as a HC, but if you REALLY watch him, you'll see that he's not good. You'll see him take advantage of weaker opponents, but gets beat quickly by good teams. You'll see him try the same things over and over, not adapting to what his team could do, or what the other team is trying to do. I'm not the only one who thinks this... @Texansfan713, @Pastor Dillon, @amazingandre, @mse326, @Apollo Stallion, @Jaytrajik - any thoughts you'd like to add? 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ET80 said: You have to consider - most of that "winning record" comes from a time when Tennessee and Jacksonville were picking in the top 5. I'd imagine his W-L record against teams under .500 is CONSIDERABLY better than his record against teams over .500. His 1-3 playoff record includes two blowouts at home - a 30-0 drubbing against the Chiefs in 2015 (when Alex Smith was starting) and the 21-7 beatdown this past season vs the Colts. His only win was against a Raiders team that had Connor Cook making his first playoff start, so that was basically a gift. His in game decision making is bland and predictable - first down will always be a pass, and if it's incomplete, 2nd and 10 will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be a handoff up the middle to Lamar Miller. Every single time. You can guarantee a WR screen on 3rd and short. He doesn't play to the teams' strengths - we have a RB who is suited for plays in space or off tackle, but he runs him between the G/C every time - doesn't even try to utilize him in space. He's got athletic TEs who aren't good blockers - but all they do is block. He's got a bad pass blocking OL, but they move well in space, and a QB who can move laterally and throw on the run as well as any QB in the league. So, rolling pockets and throws on the run? Nope, standard blocking sets and 5-7 step drops. Bill O'Brien is the Kirk Cousins of HCs. He's capable of hanging up big numbers as a HC, but if you REALLY watch him, you'll see that he's not good. You'll see him take advantage of weaker opponents, but gets beat quickly by good teams. You'll see him try the same things over and over, not adapting to what his team could do, or what the other team is trying to do. I'm not the only one who thinks this... @Texansfan713, @Pastor Dillon, @amazingandre, @mse326, @Apollo Stallion, @Jaytrajik - any thoughts you'd like to add? BOB is the worst in game coach in the league. He consistently mismanages the clock costing us points. He doesn’t seem to understand time outs, challenges or any of those type things. Guys don’t like playing for him as every season there are reports of him losing the locker room. he refuses to stick with guys he needs to stick with and he sticks with guys who need to be bench. He breeds conflict for the sake of conflict. Hes been able to win because the Texans have had a lot of talent on defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Activated10 said: Your hate for Bill O'Brein is hilarious. He seems like an above average coach at minimum. Dude has great record and most of time he had scrub QBs to work with. Watson put up great numbers with him as well. Could you please give detailed response on why you don't like O'Brein. not sure if serious.. he wasnt even good at penn st....he damn sure aint have penn st on the level as james franklin is right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 20 hours ago, ET80 said: You have to consider - most of that "winning record" comes from a time when Tennessee and Jacksonville were picking in the top 5. I'd imagine his W-L record against teams under .500 is CONSIDERABLY better than his record against teams over .500. His 1-3 playoff record includes two blowouts at home - a 30-0 drubbing against the Chiefs in 2015 (when Alex Smith was starting) and the 21-7 beatdown this past season vs the Colts. His only win was against a Raiders team that had Connor Cook making his first playoff start, so that was basically a gift. His in game decision making is bland and predictable - first down will always be a pass, and if it's incomplete, 2nd and 10 will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be a handoff up the middle to Lamar Miller. Every single time. You can guarantee a WR screen on 3rd and short. He doesn't play to the teams' strengths - we have a RB who is suited for plays in space or off tackle, but he runs him between the G/C every time - doesn't even try to utilize him in space. He's got athletic TEs who aren't good blockers - but all they do is block. He's got a bad pass blocking OL, but they move well in space, and a QB who can move laterally and throw on the run as well as any QB in the league. So, rolling pockets and throws on the run? Nope, standard blocking sets and 5-7 step drops. Bill O'Brien is the Kirk Cousins of HCs. He's capable of hanging up big numbers as a HC, but if you REALLY watch him, you'll see that he's not good. You'll see him take advantage of weaker opponents, but gets beat quickly by good teams. You'll see him try the same things over and over, not adapting to what his team could do, or what the other team is trying to do. I'm not the only one who thinks this... @Texansfan713, @Pastor Dillon, @amazingandre, @mse326, @Apollo Stallion, @Jaytrajik - any thoughts you'd like to add? One thing you forgot. Clock and TO management are atrocious. Like I would kill for Andy Reid's management that's how bad he is. And at least philosophically for me he doesn't know when to go for it on 4th instead of kick. Especially in FG range he is always content with it that he'll even call plays to get the FG instead of try for a TD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 16 hours ago, mse326 said: One thing you forgot. Clock and TO management are atrocious. Like I would kill for Andy Reid's management that's how bad he is. And at least philosophically for me he doesn't know when to go for it on 4th instead of kick. Especially in FG range he is always content with it that he'll even call plays to get the FG instead of try for a TD. On this - he's also has to be the worst HC when it comes to challenges. I'm sure there's a site that's measuring successful vs bad challenges, and I'm sure that BOB is probably high up on that list. A good HC is able to play to game flow. A GREAT HC is able to dictate game flow. Guys like BOB are slaves to their own process, even if the process isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, ET80 said: On this - he's also has to be the worst HC when it comes to challenges. I'm sure there's a site that's measuring successful vs bad challenges, and I'm sure that BOB is probably high up on that list. A good HC is able to play to game flow. A GREAT HC is able to dictate game flow. Guys like BOB are slaves to their own process, even if the process isn't working. I think Tomlin is the worst coach in the challenge, especially in the last 2 years ... He has not won a challenge since the 2016 season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Steelersfan43 said: I think Tomlin is the worst coach in the challenge, especially in the last 2 years ... He has not won a challenge since the 2016 season! https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/nfl/which-nfl-head-coaches-best-worst-challengers.html So, not including 2018, O'Brien is only ahead of Jack Del Rio, and in the same category as Mike Mularkey and John Fox. All three of those guys are no longer HCs, for the record. So, O'Brien IS the worst of all active HCs in the NFL. Tomlin is actually on the list as the worst from 2015-2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, ET80 said: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/nfl/which-nfl-head-coaches-best-worst-challengers.html So, not including 2018, O'Brien is only ahead of Jack Del Rio, and in the same category as Mike Mularkey and John Fox. All three of those guys are no longer HCs, for the record. So, O'Brien IS the worst of all active HCs in the NFL. Tomlin is actually on the list as the worst from 2015-2017. I personally don't rate a HC based on challenge success or not since frequently it comes from upstairs. It isn't really what they are seeing. I do rate them based on whether given the situation a challenge was worth it. There is no place that can measure that really, you just have to watch. I don't see enough full games of other HCs to judge where they are but BOB frequently challenges plays that are pretty insignificant. Like it doesn't even matter if it succeeds it doesn't do much, it isn't worth losing a challenge and possibly a TO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingandre Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Considering he just went on ESPN this morning and said Kalil is having a "great camp", that should tell you everything you need to know. Guy is clueless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 4:17 PM, Activated10 said: Your hate for Bill O'Brein is hilarious. He seems like an above average coach at minimum. Dude has great record and most of time he had scrub QBs to work with. Watson put up great numbers with him as well. One note - BOB is the one who brought them in. He could have drafted Jimmy Garropolo at 33 (a player he was very much linked to as far as private workouts during that draft ) but he chose to draft Xavier Sua Filo instead. There was an opportunity to trade up with Cleveland for 1.2 and select Carson Wentz, but he openly campaigned for Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallet: (1:20 mark). That "good record" came at a time where JJ Watt was singlehandedly destroying offenses, Watt was at the peak of his career then; You pair that up with a bad division, you'll see 9-7 more often than not. It doesn't mean BOB is good, it means that the talent surrounding him was so good, it was nearly impossible to sabotage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 It probably has more to do with butt chin than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 O Brien is easily the most overrated HC I ever seen and that's saying something. He is an arrogant jerk who thinks he is better than what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 He got WAAAAY too much credit for that one season at penn state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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