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Week 1: Sunday Night Football: New York Giants @ Dallas Cowboys

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redsoxsuck05    29

If we're going to run a WCO which relies on timing, rhythm, and precision then we cannot afford Eli to be so inaccurate.

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3 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

tbh my focus on Eli is due to the nature of football broadcasts

it's hard to judge anyone else without the all-22

Regardless, Eli is a huge part of our offensive inadequacy.  I know we'd much rather blame everything on Hart, Flowers, and Mac...but you can skirt around the elephant in the room for so long.

Believe me when I feel Eli is blame, I blame him. This was bad all round, I'm not pinpointing Eli because was more than just him. i want to see the all 22 as well which is why I don't want to pin it on Eli.

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Go_Giants    1

The offensive line can't run block and can't pass block but sure lets put most of the blame on Eli.

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Gmen    19

As the broadcast pointed out, our offensive woes date back well into last season.  We'd be kidding ourselves if we thought a 36 year old Eli was going to carry the team.  He needs a good supporting cast at this point and he didn't have it last night. It all begins with the inability to run the ball and that's on the offensive line.  Defenses can comfortably drop everyone back into coverage and good luck scoring points that way without obj.  

We will be fine.  It's not the end of the world.  The defense is still very good, and when obj gets back and engram settles in the offense can hopefully score enough.  But the identity of this team will once again be defense 

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Shockey1979    6
8 hours ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

If we're going to run a WCO which relies on timing, rhythm, and precision then we cannot afford Eli to be so inaccurate.

^ This

His lack of ability to hit a WR in stride on these short passes is killing the plays. Last night if he hit Sheppard in stride he probably has enough of an angle on Lee to get that 1st. But the pass was behind him so he had to contort himself and put on the brakes just to haul it in. Marshall on that in route Eli missed him but a mile. Marshall out in the flat that went off his hand... granted it was a scramble but just a semi catchable ball and Marshall is running for 6. I love the man for what he's done but his skills are seriously in decline now.

 

Edit: Not to mention these guys having to contort, leap, dive, and stretch out constantly to make these acrobatic catches is going to lead to more of them getting hurt.

Edited by Shockey1979

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The_Slamman    16

I disagree that Eli's skills are in decline.  Eli looked the same as he always has.  Eli has always been a guy that relied on a WR making a miracle catch.  He has always been one of the most turnover prone QBs in NFL history.  The success of the giants past was always the defense and the the coaching staff.    The trick has always been to keep Eli from losing games and they were able to do that through the run game with Barber and Jacobs.  You take away his run support and WR who can catch his inaccurate throws... Eli will be exposed.  But it's always been that way. 

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Shockey1979    6
1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

I disagree that Eli's skills are in decline.  Eli looked the same as he always has.  Eli has always been a guy that relied on a WR making a miracle catch.  He has always been one of the most turnover prone QBs in NFL history.  The success of the giants past was always the defense and the the coaching staff.    The trick has always been to keep Eli from losing games and they were able to do that through the run game with Barber and Jacobs.  You take away his run support and WR who can catch his inaccurate throws... Eli will be exposed.  But it's always been that way. 

Totally false and ridiculous. One of his best statistical seasons was with him having the 30th ranked running game. He's always been streaky. Throughout his career when he was off ...he was WAYYY off. But when he's on and dialed in he could shred up a defense just like the elites could. In the old Gilbride system his pass percentage didn't matter that much because it was more of big hitting intermediate to long routes with WR options and reads built in. That scheme wasn't really predicated on high percentage amount of completions because the passes that were completed were big gainers. In the WCO you need the QB to be super accurate and complete a high volume percentage of short underneath passes... but they have to be completed in stride. You have to give the playmakers a chance to catch and run.

Edited by Shockey1979

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GMENNATION    4

I wouldn't say Eli's skills have diminished necessarily, but he is a mess right now. His footwork is atrocious. Can it nerves due to the line, or call it sloppiness but it has to be fixed. It's causing the inaccuracies and needs to be fixed if we're going to stand a chance. This offense cannot run without above average QB play. We can hope it's just a game but let's not kid ourselves, he played like this last year as well.

That being said, our WR are getting NO separation. It's tough to tell during the broadcast but maybe they're just not getting through their route trees? One telling sign is that the Cowboys blitzed like 4 total times. If you can get pressure with 4 and drop back 7 on most plays, it's going to be difficult to get open. Credit to Sean Lee for completely removing the middle of the field but the WR have to find a way to get open. 

This defense will be fine. There are playmakers at every position. But no defense can overcome being on the field that much, defending drives that are starting at the 40 or better consistently. Vereen ended up with a lot of snaps because we played from behind the whole game but we need to seriously consider giving Darkwa more touches. It's been years of this. When he comes in, all of a sudden we move the ball a bit better. It could just be the fresh legs but we won't find out unless we give him some more opportunity. Perkins should not be anointed the lion's share by default.

Finally, Eli Apple has to get right. They obviously picked on him all night and he gave up too many plays. Have to be better than that. 

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Looked like the same struggles that we had last year.  The entire offensive line sucked it up in normal fashion again on Sunday night.  They have got to figure out a replacement for Bobby Hart and John Jerry sooner rather than later.  Trade picks or hit the market because what we currently have isn't going to cut it.  Sick of seeing these two players on their backs.  Flowers and Pugh wasn't much more impressive.  Perhaps I'm alone on this but I don't think Pugh is as good as they make him out to be.  Tired of the coaches trying to sell Flowers as being a up and comer and using the excuse of him being young.  Really feel he is a right tackle and should of never even started a game on the left side.

Paul Perkins isn't the answer at running back either.  He seems to be too indecisive when hitting the hole, I understand that the line sucks but you can't dance around waiting for a lane to open up behind this line, there are no blockers to follow, you've got to make your own holes which is what Darkwa was doing.  Wasn't a fan of Perkins when we drafted him and that hasn't changed.

Play calling was also shady in the passing game, Manning simply didn't have the time in the pocket for these plays to develop.  I expect the coaches to start removing more down the field plays and start loading up on the short routes much like they did last year. Expect to see Manning start to roll out of the pocket (if you wanna call it that) more to buy a little time.

Defensively, the Giants played solid.  Really impressed with Goodson at linebacker.

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McAdoo is right that we have more than enough weapons on offense to be a threat except when you have an offense that can't protect longer than going onto second read it's an issue. 

Those passes that Eli missed normally like the Shepard one and the two Marshall targets shouldn't be as costly as they were. But because we are so dormant offensively every missed opportunity is crucial. You see the Seahawks, no matter how mobile you are you can't compensate for that. So him not being able to run really is rendered mute

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redsoxsuck05    29
7 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

I disagree that Eli's skills are in decline.  Eli looked the same as he always has.  Eli has always been a guy that relied on a WR making a miracle catch.  He has always been one of the most turnover prone QBs in NFL history.  The success of the giants past was always the defense and the the coaching staff.    The trick has always been to keep Eli from losing games and they were able to do that through the run game with Barber and Jacobs.  You take away his run support and WR who can catch his inaccurate throws... Eli will be exposed.  But it's always been that way. 

Ridiculously dumb trollpost. Nice try

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The_Slamman    16
On 9/11/2017 at 3:47 PM, redsoxsuck05 said:

Ridiculously dumb trollpost. Nice try

How is giving Eli a compliment trolling?  I'm saying his skills are NOT in decline.  Look, his passer rating for the game was 78.8.  This is bad by most QBs standards, but it's right in line with his career passer rating of 83.  He's played better but he's also played a lot worse.  He was the same Eli.  

 

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7 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

How is giving Eli a compliment trolling?  I'm saying his skills are NOT in decline.  Look, his passer rating for the game was 78.8.  This is bad by most QBs standards, but it's right in line with his career passer rating of 83.  He's played better but he's also played a lot worse.  He was the same Eli.  

 

Um I don't know saying he relied on a miracle catch? 

Saying the success of the Giants was always the defense and coaching staff.

saying the trick was to give the ball  Tiki and Jacobs to prevent Eli from losing the game.

saying take away his RBs and his receivers making spectacular catches he will be exposed.

GTFOH about it's not trolling and how you're complimenting Eli. 

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Gmen    19

Eagles fans may have some room to talk trash about Eli, but Cowboys fans have none.  He beat you on the way to a SB in your stadium in 2007.  He had a great comeback win against you in late in 2011 in a do or die game on the way to another SB.  He also ruined your grand stadium opening, as Chris collinsworth was so kind to remind us during the broadcast.  Bottom line is any Cowboys fan that talks trash about Eli isn't being honest with himself. 

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Danger    84

So is it accurate to say, the key source of the problem lies in the offensive line?

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