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Current NFL QBs that Elevate Supporting Casts


HoboRocket

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Context: You know the contract drama with Dak Prescott right now. If not, look at the General or News forums. There are multiple threads about it.

There are a lot of people saying that you only pay $30+ million to a quarterback that ELEVATES their supporting cast, and NOT someone that needs their supporting cast to elevate them.

Which current QBs in the NFL elevate their supporting cast?

Obviously Tom Brady and Drew Brees can turn water into wine when it comes to a team's roster. Those are the easy ones. 

What other QBs have this ability?

Edited by HoboRocket
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As far as guys that need supporting casts go, I'm not going to point fingers and say that someone can't elevate. However, here are some facts: 

Jared Goff had statistically one of the worst rookie QB seasons ever. He failed the eye test in a lot of cases, too. However, he played for a Rams team with little talent on offense and poor coaching. The team made sure to build around him and were rewarded with the #1 offense in the NFL in 2017 after having the #32 offense the year prior. He was a legitimate MVP candidate for 8 weeks of 2018 and reached the Super Bowl. Oh, that's just natural progression! He was only had because he was a rookie! Not necessarily true, because he was gosh awful for most of the latter half of 2018 and the playoffs when Cooper Kupp and Todd Gurley were dealing with injuries. 

Dak's bad year was in 2017 with a terrible supporting cast. His good year was 2016 with a great supporting cast. His cast was bad for part of 2018, and he struggled, but he got one viable receiver in Amari Cooper (who most would agree isn't even a top 10-15 WR) and played really well.

Right after the 2015 season, a lot of people were tooting the "Matt Ryan is overrated" horn and he seemed to be considered a disappointment as a former first-rounder that was only good early in his career with a great roster. Well, after having a down year in 2015, the Falcons FO surrounded him with weapons, grabbing guys like Alex Mack, Sanu, Taylor Gabriel, and Austin Hooper to give the Falcons a good offensive roster. Ryan then won MVP.

Carson Wentz struggled in his rookie year. The team surrounded him with talent and he was a 2017 MVP candidate on a team that has had arguably the best roster in the league in 2017, 2018, and 2019.

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11 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

Carson Wentz struggled in his rookie year. The team surrounded him with talent and he was a 2017 MVP candidate on a team that has had arguably the best roster in the league in 2017, 2018, and 2019.

So you can see the future?The Eagles had the most injured roster in 2018, hardly the best though. Our 2 leading rushers last year won't even make the team this year.

That said. I am not yet going to try and suggest Carson elevates those around him. He can play well, and he's somewhere in the top 8-12 QBs. But people are going to overuse the terminology in which you're seeking.

One player I have to suggest here is Russel Wilson. And while I think I'll get a lot of flak for this and it will be considered a hot take. Ben Roethlisberger. Others that may fit the bill are Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers.

Edited by Danger
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Just now, Danger said:

So you can see the future?

No. But to replace Jordan Hicks with the duo if Zach Brown and LJ Fort feels like an upgrade, somehow. Howie Roseman is a freaking... Something that isn't a wizard because that term is overused, but something else that's really good. The Eagles roster for 2019 looks like the strongest in the league.

Pretty much agree with you about the QBs. For a lot of the young guys, we just haven't seen either enough volume, enough consistency, or both to say that they elevate their team. I would say Wilson, Ben, and Luck can turn water into wine.

I don't think it's a hot take at all for Russel Wilson to be considered that type of QB. Look at all the guys he's worked with - a UDFA in Doug Baldwin, the likes of Jermaine Kearse, Paul Richardson, Jaron Brown, and David Moore.

I'm not CERTAIN about Rivers. I just haven't seen enough of the Chargers.

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2 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

No. But to replace Jordan Hicks with the duo if Zach Brown and LJ Fort feels like an upgrade, somehow. Howie Roseman is a freaking... Something that isn't a wizard because that term is overused, but something else that's really good. The Eagles roster for 2019 looks like the strongest in the league.

Pretty much agree with you about the QBs. For a lot of the young guys, we just haven't seen either enough volume, enough consistency, or both to say that they elevate their team. I would say Wilson, Ben, and Luck can turn water into wine.

I don't think it's a hot take at all for Russel Wilson to be considered that type of QB. Look at all the guys he's worked with - a UDFA in Doug Baldwin, the likes of Jermaine Kearse, Paul Richardson, Jaron Brown, and David Moore.

I'm not CERTAIN about Rivers. I just haven't seen enough of the Chargers.

Hot take wasn't in regards to Wilson, but rather Ben Roethlisberger. Everyone wants to give all the credit to AB and LeVeon. While I don't think either of them are bad players, I do think that they are partially elevated by Ben and the system.

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7 minutes ago, Danger said:

Hot take wasn't in regards to Wilson, but rather Ben Roethlisberger. Everyone wants to give all the credit to AB and LeVeon. While I don't think either of them are bad players, I do think that they are partially elevated by Ben and the system.

I mean, when you look at Big Ben, not many of his WRs over the years were very heralded when they got to Pittsburgh, but a lot of them were after they left.

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7 minutes ago, tom cody said:

Would Matt Ryan or Phillip Rivers apply here? I think they would. 

I would say Rivers does, I'm not sure I would put Ryan there.  Even with all of his talent that he's had he has averaged like a 4.4 TD% over his career.  A lot of the QBs I would say are in that category are over 5.0 TD% as it means that when they get a chance to make a play and score they do more often than not.  Since 2001 there are only like 15 QBs with over 400 pass attempts that have averaged that for their careers, granted some of the names on the list are Mahomes, Watson, Baker, and Goff who have a very small sample size, though that list would have 2 more if you included the entire careers of Favre and Warner as they would both be over 5.0 then, though just 2001 and forward they were below.

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I would say there are about eight guys you can say that elevate their supporting cast. 

In no order

Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Luck, Rivers, Ben, and Wilson.

Ryan is borderline IMO. His numbers are great and the Falcons o-line is not very good. But a lot of his production last year came in garbage time and it hard to say if his 2016 season was about him or about Kyle Shanahan.

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Rodgers had elite talent around him when he was an elite QB.

The team he took over in 2008 was in the NFCCG in 2007.

  • Randall Cobb was their 5th WR in 2011
    • Four of those WRs have 50+ NFL TDs and the 5th has 41 and counting.
      • Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb (and Finley was a decent TE)
    • Four of the 5 have made the pro bowl and the one who did not (James Jones) led the league in TDs in 2012
  • You can't find another WR stable like that  (closest might be Denver 2013 but it falls flat after Welker (Andre Caldwell at 4 and no real #5)

The 30-24-1 QB since 2015 is not really elevating anything.

  • The Green Bay offense fell apart in 2015 when Jordy Nelson went down. 1/6 ranked to 15/23
  • Rodgers dropped 20 points in his QB rating
  • They bounced back to 4/8 when Nelson came back in 2016.
  • Rodgers played 16 in all 3 seasons.
  • Who was elevating that offense?
  • Feel free to compare that to Brady losing Edelman (2017) or long stretches without Gronk (2013 and 2016).

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-we-sure-aaron-rodgers-is-still-an-elite-quarterback/

Maybe 538 stat guys are 'haters' now too?

Maybe reality is a hater as well?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, game3525 said:

I would say there are about eight guys you can say that elevate their supporting cast. 

In no order

Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Luck, Rivers, Ben, and Wilson.

Ryan is borderline IMO. His numbers are great and the Falcons o-line is not very good. But a lot of his production last year came in garbage time and it hard to say if his 2016 season was about him or about Kyle Shanahan.

Not ready to put Mahomes there just yet. Andy Reid also plays a factor in that one. Not to say Mahomes isn't good.

Matt Ryan is an absolute no from me. He has had one of the most talented offenses around him for a long time now he isn't bringing them up, if anything they're helping him.

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