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Current NFL QBs that Elevate Supporting Casts


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Just now, Bolts223 said:

Brady has also had a lot of seasons with the likes of Troy Brown/Julian Edelman or even Reche Caldwell being his #1 option at WR.

 

My point being is this: The argument is that people are saying Brees elevates even bad teams he has been on. Every Saints team that has had any level of success since he has been there has had a lot of talent. To say that he is elevating bad rosters to do anything meaningful is just an incorrect statement. I can name instances where Peyton, Brady and Rodgers did actually elevate some pretty bad rosters into the playoffs. (Brady in 2011, Peyton Manning in 2010, Rodgers in 2016)

I can't name a single instance with Brees where he took any roster that wasn't very good and did anything with it.

 

This is true. Brady has won Super Bowls with farmers and Lacrosse players. This year is no different with the Patriots having one of the worst WR/TE groups in the NFL. Belichick knows that Brady can lead a top 5 offense no matter who is around him and invests elsewhere. But I sure would like to know how bad he would bully the league with weapons like Kamara and Thomas. Ok, you saw it in 2007 and 2010-12 with peak Gronk

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49 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

Brady has also had a lot of seasons with the likes of Troy Brown/Julian Edelman or even Reche Caldwell being his #1 option at WR.

 

My point being is this: The argument is that people are saying Brees elevates even bad teams he has been on. Every Saints team that has had any level of success since he has been there has had a lot of talent. To say that he is elevating bad rosters to do anything meaningful is just an incorrect statement. I can name instances where Peyton, Brady and Rodgers did actually elevate some pretty bad rosters into the playoffs. (Brady in 2011, Peyton Manning in 2010, Rodgers in 2016)

I can't name a single instance with Brees where he took any roster that wasn't very good and did anything with it.

 

Are you just going to ignore Gronk and his other receiving options?  Also you're acting like Edelman is bad.  Also you do realize that the Saints #1 receiver was Marques Colston for much of Brees career or worse.  You're just making up random arguments to try and make your case now.

44 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

By DVOA the 2011 Patriots defense was ranked 30th and still went 13-3 and went to the SB.

 

You mentioned Brady in 2011 having the 30th ranked defense by DVOA... ok Brees has the 28th ranked defense by DVOA and also went 13-3.  The Saints lost vs San Fran that year but Brees had them in a position to win before the defense gave the 49ers the win after they got the ball back with under 2 minutes to go.  Brees went 40/63 for 462 yards, 4 TD, 2 INT... so definitely not the reason they lost.

2006:  Saints 22nd DVOA / Pats 7th

2007:  Saints 30th DVOA / Pats 11th

2008:  Saints 26th / Pats 17th

2009:  Saints 17th / Pats 14th

2010:  Saints 10th / Pats 21st

2011:  Saints 28th / Pats 30th

2012:  Saints 32nd / Pats 15th

2013:  Saints 10th / Pats 20th

2014:  Saints 31st / Pats 12th

2015:  Saints 32nd / Pats 12th

2016:  Saints 31st / Pats 16th

2017:  Saints 8th / Pats 31st (Weighted combined DVOA 33.3% compared to 24.3% non-adjusted so I'm guessing the games against the Cardinals, Bills, and Miami to start really hurt DVOA)

2018:  Saints 11th / Pats 16th

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53 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

This is true. Brady has won Super Bowls with farmers and Lacrosse players. This year is no different with the Patriots having one of the worst WR/TE groups in the NFL. Belichick knows that Brady can lead a top 5 offense no matter who is around him and invests elsewhere. But I sure would like to know how bad he would bully the league with weapons like Kamara and Thomas. Ok, you saw it in 2007 and 2010-12 with peak Gronk

And we've seen brees with farmers and lacrosse players too.  You're acting like Brees has had studs his entire career.  Brees and Brady have both had to work with less weapons, though Brady did always have defenses that kept opponents from scoring.

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2 minutes ago, Raves said:

Are you just going to ignore Gronk and his other receiving options?  Also you're acting like Edelman is bad.  Also you do realize that the Saints #1 receiver was Marques Colston for much of Brees career or worse.  You're just making up random arguments to try and make your case now.

You mentioned Brady in 2011 having the 30th ranked defense by DVOA... ok Brees has the 28th ranked defense by DVOA and also went 13-3.  The Saints lost vs San Fran that year but Brees had them in a position to win before the defense gave the 49ers the win after they got the ball back with under 2 minutes to go.  Brees went 40/63 for 462 yards, 4 TD, 2 INT... so definitely not the reason they lost.

2006:  Saints 22nd DVOA / Pats 7th

2007:  Saints 30th DVOA / Pats 11th

2008:  Saints 26th / Pats 17th

2009:  Saints 17th / Pats 14th

2010:  Saints 10th / Pats 21st

2011:  Saints 28th / Pats 30th

2012:  Saints 32nd / Pats 15th

2013:  Saints 10th / Pats 20th

2014:  Saints 31st / Pats 12th

2015:  Saints 32nd / Pats 12th

2016:  Saints 31st / Pats 16th

2017:  Saints 8th / Pats 31st (Weighted combined DVOA 33.3% compared to 24.3% non-adjusted so I'm guessing the games against the Cardinals, Bills, and Miami to start really hurt DVOA)

2018:  Saints 11th / Pats 16th

The problem with your argument is that you are trying to argue against something that I'm not even saying.

Every single good team Brees has ever QB'd has had a fairly large amount of talent on it. Whether it be on the offense, defense or both.

This last Patriots team won the SB with Edelman/Dorsett and a washed up Gronk as it's top receiving threats. The defense was fairly average although it did step up big in the SB.

Edelman is fine but he's not a good #1 WR. He's had like 1 season with over 1000 receiving yards in his career.

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4 minutes ago, Raves said:

And we've seen brees with farmers and lacrosse players too.  You're acting like Brees has had studs his entire career.  Brees and Brady have both had to work with less weapons, though Brady did always have defenses that kept opponents from scoring.

No I am not. I'm saying that Brees has never had success without studs on one side of the ball or the other. Brady has.

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4 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

The problem with your argument is that you are trying to argue against something that I'm not even saying.

Every single good team Brees has ever QB'd has had a fairly large amount of talent on it. Whether it be on the offense, defense or both.

This last Patriots team won the SB with Edelman/Dorsett and a washed up Gronk as it's top receiving threats. The defense was fairly average although it did step up big in the SB.

Edelman is fine but he's not a good #1 WR. He's had like 1 season with over 1000 receiving yards in his career.

Same with Brady.  And Manning.  And every other QB in the NFL, ever.  Or just team period.  Without a large amount of talent... you aren't going to win... Just saying.

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Just now, Raves said:

Same with Brady.  And Manning.  And every other QB in the NFL, ever.  Or just team period.  Without a large amount of talent... you aren't going to win... Just saying.

Uh not anywhere close to the same extent.

You really think this Patriots team that won last year was really that talented of a roster? It wasn't like the Cardinals or anything but there were rosters FAR more talented than it. The Saints included.

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The 2001 Patriots went 5-11 in 2000 and started the 2001 season 0-2. Ended up winning the SB. Top offensive weapons were Troy Brown, David Patten and JR Redmond.

The 2006 Patriots had Reche Caldwell as the #1 receiving threat with an aging defense and that team still went 12-4 and went to the AFC Championship game.

The 2011 Patriots had Gronk injured in the postseason, one of the worst defenses in the league and they still went 13-3 and went to the SB.

The 2013 Patriots also had injured Gronk, a pretty meh defense and still went 12-4 and went to the AFC Championship game.

- The 2018 Patriots had a washed up Gronk, and Edelman and Dorsett as the biggest threats at WR's. They have a defensive front that doesn't consist of really any major stars, and nobody that's really a giant star in the secondary besides Gilmore. This team went 11-5 and won the SB.

The Patriots have had 9 straight first round byes and not all of those teams have been particularly talented.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

The severe lack of mentions for Andrew Luck in this thread disappoints me. Colts roster was pathetic the first like 5 years of his career and he still kept them as a solid offense.

We might get another primer on that here in a few weeks.

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3 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

The severe lack of mentions for Andrew Luck in this thread disappoints me. Colts roster was pathetic the first like 5 years of his career and he still kept them as a solid offense.

Yes and no.

The Colts went out of their way to give Luck as much help as possible on the offensive side of the ball right away. After they took Luck 1st in the 2012 draft, they drafted Colby Fleener, Dwayne Allen and TY Hilton with their next 3 picks.

Matt Hasselback also made that team go 8-8 in 2015.

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2 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

Yes and no.

The Colts went out of their way to give Luck as much help as possible on the offensive side of the ball right away. After they took Luck 1st in the 2012 draft, they drafted Colby Fleener, Dwayne Allen and TY Hilton with their next 3 picks.

Matt Hasselback also made that team go 8-8 in 2015.

 

I mean you can draft whoever you want but if they turn injury prone or suck it doesn't really matter. Fleener was solid but ended up getting the injury bug and is out of the league as what I assume is the result of that, and Dwayne Allen sucks.

Matt Hasselbeck at that point in his career was worth a few solid starts then fell off a cliff. That basically sums the last 3-4 years of his career up. In 2011 for the Titans he started off the season looking like an MVP candidate then his old body caught up to him. Same with that Colts season you're mentioning, He was pretty good for a few games then his dead arm kicked in.

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1 hour ago, Bolts223 said:

Yes and no.

The Colts went out of their way to give Luck as much help as possible on the offensive side of the ball right away. After they took Luck 1st in the 2012 draft, they drafted Colby Fleener, Dwayne Allen and TY Hilton with their next 3 picks.

Matt Hasselback also made that team go 8-8 in 2015.

Both those TEs were disappointments Hilton was a solid pick though. Also the OL was absolutely awful.

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