Current NFL QBs that Elevate Supporting Casts

[Jlowe22]

21 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

Branch didnt play under Brees, for one.

Also, the fact that you give the Ben Watson comparison to Brees, but then say that Welker's production with Brady and Manning were about the same, is laughable. And then you include people like David Thomas and Hooman. Hooman never had more than 100 yards receiving total in any season with NO.

Then you also neglect to actually compare Caldwell, who played with Brees in SD for several years before his career year in NE.

There is probably a lot more to say but I dont have time to go through it all.

Both QBs obv elevate their team but this is such a terrible post lol

He also missed an obvious one(Brandin Cooks)

In any case, it's also obvious that good QB play helps receivers out.  Exact stats don't matter, they can be affected by numerous variables.  

[ClutchDJ]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:52 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Matt Ryan? Lol, no. Rivers for sure.

Russell Wilson is the best example in the NFL, though, besides Brady.

I’m trying to figure out how Matt Ryan doesn’t belong here, but Rivers does.

 

I bet Rivers wishes he had a Julio or Kyle Shanahan, but I bet Ryan also wishes he had defenses like Rivers’ has had.

[childofpudding]

5 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

He also missed an obvious one(Brandin Cooks)

In any case, it's also obvious that good QB play helps receivers out.  Exact stats don't matter, they can be affected by numerous variables.  

Yep. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured he left Cooks out because they were about the same with Brees and Brady (maybe slight edge to Brees but it's close).

[Jlowe22]

1 hour ago, childofpudding said:

Yep. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured he left Cooks out because they were about the same with Brees and Brady (maybe slight edge to Brees but it's close).

David Patten is another one, although he was nearing the end of his career with the Saints.

[Nozizaki]

I think at this point the list is (in no particular order) Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Wentz, Watson and Newton.

[Steelersfan43]

36 minutes ago, Nozizaki said:

I think at this point the list is (in no particular order) Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Wentz, Watson and Newton.

No Brady and Brees?

They are still very good despite their age(Super Bowl win for Brady and Brees has been very close to go in the Super Bowl too)

[MrnastiesNO]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:52 PM, Bolts223 said:

It's the least competitive division in football in large part because the best team in the NFL year in and year out (by far) plays in it. There are like maybe 2-3 teams in football the last 20 years that would be a consistent challenge to the Patriots if they were in the same division. And even then the Patriots would come out on top way more often than not.

And no, the NFC South certainly isn't one of the most competitive divisions the last decade. In 2014 the Panthers won it with a losing record. In years like 2012, 2015, 2016 & 2018 it was just one good team at the top with the other 3 being average to bad. That's really not any different than the AFC East. The difference is that the Patriots are a team that consistently wins 12-13 games. None of the NFC South teams are even remotely consistent. The Panthers are even a meme for how consistently inconsistent they are.

Patriots were winning 12 games a year because the played in that division. Dolphins, Bills, Jets.....? Come on man never of those teams have had a starting Qb in the last 15 years.  Jets were contenders I think for maybe two years that's it in the last decade in a half.  The NFC south has always have multiple teams up to three in the playoffs and Saints, Falcons, and Panther have always been contenders even the years they laid eggs they went into the season as contenders.

[MrnastiesNO]

17 hours ago, childofpudding said:

Branch didnt play under Brees, for one.

Also, the fact that you give the Ben Watson comparison to Brees, but then say that Welker's production with Brady and Manning were about the same, is laughable. And then you include people like David Thomas and Hooman. Hooman never had more than 100 yards receiving total in any season with NO.

Then you also neglect to actually compare Caldwell, who played with Brees in SD for several years before his career year in NE. Or Moss, who had a career year in NE and also played with Culpepper. Or Lafell, who had a career year in NE and also played with Newton and Dalton.

There is probably a lot more to say but I dont have time to go through it all.

Both QBs obv elevate their team but this is such a terrible post lol

This is simple. I including every Wr that played with Brady and Brees both.  We are talking about QB's elevating Wr's play and production what this is the easiest way to see. Welkers production was about the same his numbers went down but TD's went up so did his injuries. Considering he was competing with D.Thomas and Sanders I think it was about the same.

I did not include Caldwell because it was a oversight. That being said he wasn't a starter with Brees, in a total of three years he started 12 games that not a comparable sample size compare to him actually being a starter with the Patriots. If you go off per target his better was still with Drew Brees by the way. Coaches decide who plays not Qbs .

Randy Moss overall production remained the same  throughout his career with decent Qb play. yes he had a career year with touchdowns  under Brady. But did Brady make him better or did Moss make Brady better. Before that season Brady's deep ball statistics were horrible and after Moss they were horrible again so tell me do you really want to dig into this. I guarantee you that Moss elevated him especially consider Brady's play production was never similar again.

Brandon Fell did have his best year with Brady no doubt but then he dropped off the map again the same Qb the second year.

It wasn't Deion Branch it was David Patten.

[Jlowe22]

Reche Caldwell got hurt in 04.  His production likely would have been similar.

[childofpudding]

3 hours ago, MrnastiesNO said:

This is simple. I including every Wr that played with Brady and Brees both.  We are talking about QB's elevating Wr's play and production what this is the easiest way to see. Welkers production was about the same his numbers went down but TD's went up so did his injuries. Considering he was competing with D.Thomas and Sanders I think it was about the same.

I did not include Caldwell because it was a oversight. That being said he wasn't a starter with Brees, in a total of three years he started 12 games that not a comparable sample size compare to him actually being a starter with the Patriots. If you go off per target his better was still with Drew Brees by the way. Coaches decide who plays not Qbs .

Randy Moss overall production remained the same  throughout his career with decent Qb play. yes he had a career year with touchdowns  under Brady. But did Brady make him better or did Moss make Brady better. Before that season Brady's deep ball statistics were horrible and after Moss they were horrible again so tell me do you really want to dig into this. I guarantee you that Moss elevated him especially consider Brady's play production was never similar again.

Brandon Fell did have his best year with Brady no doubt but then he dropped off the map again the same Qb the second year.

It wasn't Deion Branch it was David Patten.

Welker's peaks in receptions (123 to 73), yards (1569 to 778), yards/reception (12.9 to 10.7) and yards/game (98.1 to 59.8) were in NE, but you call this production about the same because his peak in TDs (10 to 9) was in DEN. Huh?

Meanwhile, Hooman's peaks in receptions, yards, yards/reception and yards/game were all in NE, but you give that to Brees because, I guess, he had 3 TDs one year in NO?

Then you talk about Caldwell's sample size even though you included Hooman, Thomas and Moore, all of whom have similar sample size issues, if not moreso. Oh wait, you want to call it even because Caldwell's yards/target were higher one year in SD than in NE? Oh, OK. Well, Watson's yards/target were higher one year in NE than they were in NO. Call it even then, yes? Thomas' career highs in yards/reception and yards/target were in NE, so that's about even too, yes? After all, coaches decide who play, not QBs. Right?

You dismiss Brandon Lafell because he "dropped off the map" the next year, but again, include Lance Moore even though he "dropped off the map" in NO following his career year in 2012.

Then you say you meant David Patten, not Deion Branch (even though your post said D. Branch). And you gave that to Brees. Well, Patten's career highs in receptions, yards, TDs, yards/reception and yards/game were in NE.

In all, you have inconsistent criteria depending on the situation, with the common denominator being that they all either point toward Brees elevating his team, or toward Brady not elevating his team. So yeah. Horrible post. I'd agree with anyone saying that Brees elevates his team about as well as Brady does, but your slanted, poorly researched take is just a steaming pile of garbage.

Edited August 27, 2019 by childofpudding

[Nozizaki]

6 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said:

No Brady and Brees?

They are still very good despite their age(Super Bowl win for Brady and Brees has been very close to go in the Super Bowl too)

I just think they're at the age (especially for Brees) where they can probably take over and win you a game or two, but so can any NFL quarterback. I can't see either elevating a mid-tier roster to a SB.

Luckily for both, neither has to.

[Duoathome]

On 8/19/2019 at 11:36 AM, HoboRocket said:

 

I mentioned Luck at the start of the thread. He may be the single player in the league that has had the most on his shoulders when it comes to carrying the offense over the past six years or so.

That post didn't age well.

[Bolts223]

On 8/27/2019 at 9:38 AM, MrnastiesNO said:

Patriots were winning 12 games a year because the played in that division. Dolphins, Bills, Jets.....? Come on man never of those teams have had a starting Qb in the last 15 years.  Jets were contenders I think for maybe two years that's it in the last decade in a half.  The NFC south has always have multiple teams up to three in the playoffs and Saints, Falcons, and Panther have always been contenders even the years they laid eggs they went into the season as contenders.

The Patriots win % is close to identical both inside and outside that division since 2001. (Around .740 for both)

Compare that to teams like the Steelers and Packers who actually have much higher win % in their divisions compared to a much lower win % outside their divisions. Yet people will say they play in a "brutal division"

The Patriots have only gone 6-0 in the AFC East twice since 2001, and one of those seasons they went 16-0.

And realistically what team in the NFC South would be a consistent challenge to the Patriots?

There is no division you could put them in that would really change them winning an average of 12 games a year.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Bolts223

[SkippyX]

Its really odd that Drew Brees had an unimpressive 5 year run with San Diego before he took off in New Orleans. (30-28 with an 84 rating)

He had seasons with ratings in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s,, and 100+  (the 90s season was 27 passes as a rookie)

Does anyone really think it had ZERO to do with coaching, players, system,, and the dome?.

• Who knows what his career is like if Saban brings him to Miami?
• I would guess it is much less impressive.

But lets pretend its all Brees.

[SkippyX]

17 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

The Patriots win % is close to identical both inside and outside that division since 2001. (Around .740 for both)

Compare that to teams like the Steelers and Packers who actually have much higher win % in their divisions compared to a much lower win % outside their divisions. Yet people will say they play in a "brutal division"

The Patriots have only gone 6-0 in the AFC East twice since 2001, and one of those seasons they went 16-0.

And realistically what team in the NFC South would be a consistent challenge to the Patriots?

There is no division you could put them in that would really change them winning an average of 12 games a year.

 

I have endorsed this with research in the recent past.

No one has taken more advantage in their division than Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning(Colts)

• Part of Rodgers recent failings is some actual talent in his current division.
• The AFC South was actually built for Peyton Manning to thrive (in 2002 they gave him an expansion team, a bad team, and an old team ready to fall off)
• The AFC East the year before had a 10-6 team, an 11-5 team, and the 11-5 SB Champs. OPERATION RESCUE MANNING!

Brady just kills everyone.

at Miami is actually a tough place for them to win every year and the Jets have been in 2 AFCCGs in the last 10 years

• The Cowboys and DC were in zero NFCCGs during Brady's career

Brady is 1-1 against his own division in the playoffs and 29-9 against everyone else.

If you cherry picked a division where he would have to play in low oxygen Denver, Miami, and Seattle/Carolina every year then maybe he would have 5 or 6 less wins and possibly 1 less Super Bowl. But swap out the Dolphins for the Giants and he probably has more wins and 2 more Super Bowls because he knocks them off in Foxborough instead of facing them on a neutral field. 

Belichick and Brady are both the GoaT. The organization as a whole is far smarter than your team's FO. Crying about the AFC East is a lie and changes nothing.

Belichick's defense has destroyed the K-gun in the Super Bowl. His defense has destroyed Joe Montana in the playoffs twice.  Does anyone really think the Bears, Lions and Vikings would have stopped him and Brady?

 

Brady / Belichick are 23-6 in the playoffs against teams that won their division. Make that 23-3 if the other team does not have an actual breathing advantage.

• Yes, this means they have a better record against division winners than against the AFC East

Edited August 29, 2019 by SkippyX