Are the Vikings Too "Civilized?"

[Uncle Buck]

For a while now, I've felt that there was something missing from Mike Zimmer's Vikings.  He is a great coach, and he has put together a roster that is stacked with talented players who are usually very disciplined and well-coached.  It seems like they have what it takes to be in the right place at the right time, but I've noticed over the last couple of years that we don't have any players who are just monsters out there - old school type guys like Keith Millard, Lyle Alzado, Ted Hendricks, Deacon Jones, Richard Butkus, Lawrence Taylor, etc. 

Because our Head Coach is such a hard-nosed disciplinarian, is it possible the players on our roster have been held back a little too much?  It just seems like we are missing that one player on the team who is a true leader out on the field.  A guy like Ray Lewis could do wonders for our roster.  Even though we have a lot of great players, I just don't think we have an emotional leader like that on this team.

Now, I know that recent rule changes have taken a lot of the brutality out of the game, so we won't see near as many spectacular hits as we saw in years past, but where is the emotion?  Where is the drive?  Has that gone out of the game for everyone, or am I just waxing nostalgic and worrying needlessly?  All I know is that it would be great to see the Vikings win some games by physically and emotionally dominating an opponent so completely that they practically lose the will to even be on the field.  I haven't seen that in a LONG time with this team.  

What do you think? 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Uncle Buck

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

I've actual mentioned this a couple times over the last few seasons. It's something I've noticed as well.

It's nice not having knuckleheads on the team who are getting 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties every other series but there's times I want to see some swagger out of the team. I really enjoyed Thielen getting into it with Belichick last season because it showed some fire. It showed some emotion that we won't be ______'d with no matter if you're a rookie or one of the greatest coaches in history.

This team doesn't feel very "black & blue" although the defense is mostly defensively sound, you can have both and still be a disciplined team. 

I also feel that the team RARELY steps on the neck of their opponents and destroys them. We could be up 23-3 in the 4th yet we go into a boring run-run-short pass-punt offense and we go into a severe bend, don't break defense and end up winning 23-13 or something

I want us to keep going. I want us to score another touchdown. I want the defense continue to kill the offense. Send a damn message rather than "Shucks! We're going to win this game! Yayyyy!" Show that we're not a team to be messed with. Show some fire. Give a big middle finger to the league.

We feel too "Minnesota" and not enough "Vikings."

[SteelKing728]

Kirk Cousins and Everson Griffen try, but they don't have that super BA attitude about them.

I don't think it necessarily holds us back though; Just another piece to the puzzle.

[wcblack34]

I kinda get this take. But then you look at guys like Vontaze Burfict. They cost your team more than they benefit. 

11 guys executing in controlled unison will always outperform the hotheads. It won’t look as spectacular, but it’s more effective. 

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

1 hour ago, wcblack34 said:

I kinda get this take. But then you look at guys like Vontaze Burfict. They cost your team more than they benefit. 

11 guys executing in controlled unison will always outperform the hotheads. It won’t look as spectacular, but it’s more effective. 

I don't think you need to be a dirty player or to be a hot head to have swagger behind you.

It just needs to be that player like an that you know will do something that fires the team up. Uncle Buck mentioned Ray Lewis. There was an aura about him. Something that said "This guy is going to make something happen even in a blowout loss." Aaron Donald....Khalil Mack....J.J. Watt. Sure, they're All-World players but we have some studs in our own right that c

Once again, you can execute in complete unison and be fundamentally sound yet still be a team that another team will say "We're in for a long, long night." There's a reason why Seattle's Legion of Boom was well-known throughout the league. You knew you were going to get smacked around.

Part of that is not coasting when you're ahead in my opinion. If we're going to be a Super Bowl caliber team, ACT LIKE ONE. Don't give up in the 4th quarter and coast to a victory. Keep going. Keep trying to run up the score and prevent yards, not touchdowns. I don't want to hear "Well, we didn't want to run up the score." I want to hear "If they didn't want us to score, they should have stopped us."

I want us to be a fundamentally sound team that plays respectful (no dirty hits, cheap crap) and within the rules but I'm sick of being "nice guys." Make the media say "U.S. Bank Stadium is a tough place to play. Not just because of the crowd but because the Vikings won't stop coming after you."

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Vikes_Bolts1228

[Uncle Buck]

6 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

I've actual mentioned this a couple times over the last few seasons. It's something I've noticed as well.

It's nice not having knuckleheads on the team who are getting 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties every other series but there's times I want to see some swagger out of the team. I really enjoyed Thielen getting into it with Belichick last season because it showed some fire. It showed some emotion that we won't be ______'d with no matter if you're a rookie or one of the greatest coaches in history.

This team doesn't feel very "black & blue" although the defense is mostly defensively sound, you can have both and still be a disciplined team. 

I also feel that the team RARELY steps on the neck of their opponents and destroys them. We could be up 23-3 in the 4th yet we go into a boring run-run-short pass-punt offense and we go into a severe bend, don't break defense and end up winning 23-13 or something

I want us to keep going. I want us to score another touchdown. I want the defense continue to kill the offense. Send a damn message rather than "Shucks! We're going to win this game! Yayyyy!" Show that we're not a team to be messed with. Show some fire. Give a big middle finger to the league.

We feel too "Minnesota" and not enough "Vikings."

Very well said, VB.  It's kind of like comparing "Money Mayweather" to Mike Tyson.  Mayweather can usually get the win on points, but Mike used to just knock them out in the first round.  The next opponent Mike fought would no doubt be worrying about being knocked into next week just because of what he saw Mike did to the last guy. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Uncle Buck

[Uncle Buck]

5 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

I kinda get this take. But then you look at guys like Vontaze Burfict. They cost your team more than they benefit. 

11 guys executing in controlled unison will always outperform the hotheads. It won’t look as spectacular, but it’s more effective. 

Yeah, I wouldn't want knuckleheads on the team.  Just one or two guys with an attitude like Ray Lewis, even if they weren't as talented, could make a huge difference.

[Guest]

I guess I never appreciated the theatrics of a player like Ray Lewis.  I think, for professionals, the emotional lift comes from players who do some amazing things on the field.  Posturing, bellowing, and ra-ra-ing are for those teams that are insecure about how good they are, in my opinion.  And Buck, I do believe we have the players on the team that you are wondering about.  Adam Thielen is as fiery as they get...so is Diggs.  I think defensive players have to be a little more cautious as refs are much more likely to throw an "unsportsman like" penalty against them as opposed.

[HitStickAllDay]

I actually agree on defense. Would like to have an intimidator. That said, our defense pretty consistently ranks in the top of the league and isn’t the thing holding us back from going far. Would love to see us go for the jugular when up though. Maybe not ramp the aggressiveness, but stick with what got you the lead in the first place. 

[JDBrocks]

Jared Allen was the last guy that did what is being asked here on defense. I don't think they need that guy though, and I think that last year changed many people's perception. When Smith, Griffen, Rhodes, Linval, Hunter, Barr, and Kendricks were out there in 2017 taking offenses off of the field, they were an intimidating group week in and week out. Not flashy, but very intimidating, - and the league knew and talked about it. The overall success of the team dictates much of most fan's perception of a particular unit. 2018 comes around and the team is worse which makes it looks like the defense lost it's edge, even though they were still among the top units in the league.

[swede700]

I, like others, do get that impression, but I'm okay with it.  When Everson is at his best, he is that guy.  Guys like Barr, Harrison and Xavier just aren't.  That isn't their personality, but that's fine.  They play with a quiet confidence, which sometimes can be more effective, especially in this day and age with all the rules that favor the offense.  For all the seeming knuckleheads that Zimmer had in Cincinnati, they weren't all that boisterous either.  Zimmer tamped down Pacman and made him a better player...and Newman and Atkins were never that boisterous or reckless.

[vikingsrule]

I think the Vikes inability to show up for big games has more to do with Zimmer getting out coached and not having a consistent Qb over the years. Does it really matter if we don't have Ray Lewis leading the defense if the defense is top 5 consistently. 

[The Gnat]

From what I can tell, I don't think teams always need that "rah rah" in your face intense guy to lead the team and do well. However, I do think it's a talking point that the media loves to latch onto, because the "rah rah" in your face guy is great for the media in terms of quotes. So whenever anything goes wrong and they aren't getting their quotes for their articles, it's easy to write about how there isn't that guy on the team.

[VikeManDan]

13 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I think the Vikes inability to show up for big games

Whatever the reason is for this it is certainly annoying/embarrassing. It goes back before Zimmer's tenure as well.

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

6 hours ago, VikeManDan said:

Whatever the reason is for this it is certainly annoying/embarrassing. It goes back before Zimmer's tenure as well.

It's very troubling and needs to be figured out. I can't believe is Zimmer being out-coached EVERY primetime game but like you said, whatever the reason it's very annoying.

Every prime time game it's the same stuff. It's predictable from the second the schedule is made...."The Vikings are going to come out flat and uninspired."