Soggust Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I hate Philip Rivers, but I would argue he's underrated if anything. There are Chargers fans who prop him up a bit more than he probably should be (as all teams do), but on the whole he's underappreciated by the common NFL fan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 12 hours ago, SkippyX said: Just fail on so many levels. Rivers has played in one whole AFCCG in his career and he went 19-37 211 0 TDs and 2 picks for a 46.1 rating. If that does not scream greatness then I don't know what does. Norv Turner is the guy who built the triplets offense in Dallas that won 3 Super Bowls. He won a playoff game in DC with the worst owner in sports and had that team heading in the right direction until that fantasy football clown forced Jeff George on him. I lived there during this time. I know it much better than you. Norv was a good coach who had morons for bosses. The following year was the 10 million dollar bet that Snyder lost with Marty He had no shot in Oakland with an old and beat down team and senile Davis drafting this garbage for him: 2004 - Robert Gallery instead of Fitzgerald, Rivers, or Big Ben Jake Grove, Stuart Schweigart, Carlos Francis 2005 - Fabian Washington the pick before Aaron Rodgers Stanford Routt, Andrew Walter, (1 decent LB in Kirk Morrison) He took over a 14-2 team that could not win a playoff game and got them to the AFCCG the next year. Rivers played some of his best postseason ball with Norv as the coach. A banged up Rivers was bad and could not find the end zone and a banged up Tomlinson barely played Please explain how this could possibly be Norv's fault but NOT River's fault? Norv did not shine with a crappy 49ers team for a year before SD and he did not shine with a crappy Cleveland team after He spent 3 years in Minnesota which saw Peterson blow out a knee in year 1 and attack his kid in year 3 Bridgewater got mangled and he guided Sam Bradford to his best statistical season as a pro (99.3 rating 20 TDs to 5 picks) Now he is in Carolina trying to reclaim the Cam Newton that imploded in the Super Bowl of 2015. Cam's passer rating went from sub-80s over 2016-17 up to 94.2 last year under Turner. Its accurate to say that Rivers is a better pro because Norv Turner taught him how to be a consistent pro bowl QB for 6 years 3 of his 5 best years were with Turner and the only time he led the league in yards TDs, and rating was all under Norv We can't stop you from any delusions that Norv Turner is Rich Kotite or Mike McCoy but we are not buying it at all. Tom Brady from 05-13 is a first ballot Hall of Fame QB. He had a top 10 best single season in '07 and was MVP He was MVP again in 2010 He had a 99.4 rating in the regular season with 262 TDs to 82 picks. He still comes out as a 9-8 playoff QB with 32 TDs to 19 picks. He played in 5 AFCCGs and 2 Super Bowls. We all know it took a helmet catch to stop him from 19-0 He beat Rivers head to head in 2 playoff games and outplayed him both times. His stats were not great but he had the game winning drive in one game and he was just enough better than Rivers in the other. He beat Rivers in San Diego with Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, and a 35 year old Troy Brown He had 5 games over 100+ rating compared to Rivers 4 in his entire existence. You have proven our argument since Brady in those years was better than Rivers entire career. We get that you are a Chargers fanatic who worships Rivers. We are not impressed. I cant take you seriously when you are trying to make a case that Norv is even an avg head coach, let alone good. He had his most success with Rivers as a head coach, won 3 times as many playoff games with Rivers. There is a reason Norv hasnt even been brought up for a HC gig since San Diego. I dont even know if he has got an interview. He hasnt even been able to keep a job as a coordinator. I will break this down in more detail after work. But calling Norv even an avg HEAD COACH is literally one of the worst takes ive ever seen in my life. No exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) As much as I love Rivers, he needs that iconic Super Bowl run like Flacco and Foles in order to be considered for HOF. Someone compared Rivers to Peyton earlier in this thread, but the QB he is most similar to is actually Brees. Makes sense given that Rivers was his teammate for two years. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Rivers ended up in NO instead of Brees. Sadly the most stable HC and closest thing to an offensive genius that Rivers has had was Norv. Here's hoping Lynn changes that. Edit: also if Rivers doesn't make the HOF then neither should Eli. Guy has two rings but has been subpar everywhere else. Edited August 20, 2019 by Xenos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Eli has 55,981 yards passing and 360 TDs with a not so great 84.1 rating. He is 116-114 as a starter. His highs are the ceiling and his lows are very low. Eli is 8-4 in the playoffs. His rating climbs to 87.4 which breaks down like this: Some really horrible 1 and done games like 2005 vs Carolina and 2008 vs Philly. 8 games of brilliance at about 100 rating that won his team a pair of Super Bowls. Rivers has 54,656 yards passing and 374 TDs and a wonderful 95.6 rating. He is 118-90 as a starter. His highs are back to back thrilling playoff wins against Peyton Manning.(with a big assist from Billy Volek) and I guess some pretty regular season TDs? His lows are every bit as low as Eli with those 6 playoff losses. Rivers is 5-6 in the playoffs and his rating dips to 84.2 in the playoffs. His one trip to the AFCCG was horrible. Eli has 5 game winning drives in the playoffs out of his 8 wins and 12 games. He will always be a winner. Rivers has 1 game winning drive in 5 wins and 11 games overall. He lost 4 playoff games by 3, 3, 7, and 9 and he had 3 TDs and 5 picks in those games. He is not a victim of bad teammates or bad coaches. He just never got it done.(yet!) If you like Rivers better because he's your guy. Have fun with that. If you prefer some extra regular season stats and wins to playoff excellence and a couple of parades then you are just wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Rivers is easy to rate and its troubling to read that people think he is overrated or underrated. Since he started in 2006, only Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers have been clearly better than him. So if you are putting him up against those QBs he falls short. Big Ben is the only other QB that started in that time he is similar with and I believe he is better than him. If thats the case that would make Rivers a Top 5 QB since 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 On 19/08/2019 at 1:15 AM, Starless said: By what metric do you judge that? I would say he's been hamstrung by bad coaching and bad teams more than anything else throughout his career. He's got more 4th quarter comebacks than all but 2 QBs (Ryan and Brees) since he became the starter in SD, which suggests to me that he's underrated in the clutch. I do not know if it's true that Rivers has the most 4th quarter comebacks since 2006, but he has had a lot of opportunity and Rivers has one of the worst winning% in this situation, among the active QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, SkippyX said: Eli has 55,981 yards passing and 360 TDs with a not so great 84.1 rating. He is 116-114 as a starter. His highs are the ceiling and his lows are very low. Eli is 8-4 in the playoffs. His rating climbs to 87.4 which breaks down like this: Some really horrible 1 and done games like 2005 vs Carolina and 2008 vs Philly. 8 games of brilliance at about 100 rating that won his team a pair of Super Bowls. Rivers has 54,656 yards passing and 374 TDs and a wonderful 95.6 rating. He is 118-90 as a starter. His highs are back to back thrilling playoff wins against Peyton Manning.(with a big assist from Billy Volek) and I guess some pretty regular season TDs? His lows are every bit as low as Eli with those 6 playoff losses. Rivers is 5-6 in the playoffs and his rating dips to 84.2 in the playoffs. His one trip to the AFCCG was horrible. Eli has 5 game winning drives in the playoffs out of his 8 wins and 12 games. He will always be a winner. Rivers has 1 game winning drive in 5 wins and 11 games overall. He lost 4 playoff games by 3, 3, 7, and 9 and he had 3 TDs and 5 picks in those games. He is not a victim of bad teammates or bad coaches. He just never got it done.(yet!) If you like Rivers better because he's your guy. Have fun with that. If you prefer some extra regular season stats and wins to playoff excellence and a couple of parades then you are just wrong. So his rating is 3.2 lower in the post season, facing far better defenses and his reg season passer rating is 11 points higher. Not to mention Eli goes 1 and done 4 out of 6 times, Rivers 2 out of 6. If you want the better, superior qb you take Rivers. It's a no brainer. I dont think any active qbs have more success than Rivers does if they are in San Diego / LAC. Only Peyton, who proved his success isnt linked to a single head coach. Ben has had success with 2 different coaches. But its been 2 quality coaches. Rivers without Norv and Mccoy; who are probably worse than any active head coach, is 35-13. Norv as HC without Rivers .423 Norv as HC with Rivers .589 Rivers without Norv .553 Rivers without Mccoy .631 Rivers without Mccoy and Norv .729 Rivers only problem is he hasnt had the great coaching some of these other guys have. 2 games, 6 points combined and 4 missed fgs is what separates 3 AFCC appearances vs 1. Outside of the 2013 Broncos, who were the highest scoring offense of all time, these are the scoring defenses Rivers has faced in the playoffs. 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8 avg of 3.8. Show me another QB who has faced that in the playoffs. In Rivers 6 playoff losses, offense has rushed fir 68.8 yds. If you take away the 2006 game vs NE, in 5 losses offense had 52 yds rushing. In those 6 playoff losses, his defense gave up an avg of 27 ppg. Keep in mind the level of defense he faced. Rivers hasnt been the issue in SD/LAC and if he was in some of these "elite qbs" situations, hed have far far more success. Edited August 20, 2019 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said: I do not know if it's true that Rivers has the most 4th quarter comebacks since 2006, but he has had a lot of opportunity and Rivers has one of the worst winning% in this situation, among the active QBs. I call BS. Show me where you seen this stat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: I call BS. Show me where you seen this stat? I forgot to show this link in my last post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said: I forgot to show this link in my last post Thanks. Rivers% is right inbetween Brees and Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: So his rating is 3.2 lower in the post season, facing far better defenses and his reg season passer rating is 11 points higher. Not to mention Eli goes 1 and done 4 out of 6 times, Rivers 2 out of 6. If you want the better, superior qb you take Rivers. It's a no brainer. I dont think any active qbs have more success than Rivers does if they are in San Diego / LAC. Only Peyton, who proved his success isnt linked to a single head coach. Ben has had success with 2 different coaches. But its been 2 quality coaches. Rivers without Norv and Mccoy; who are probably worse than any active head coach, is 35-13. Norv as HC without Rivers .423 Norv as HC with Rivers .589 Rivers without Norv .553 Rivers without Mccoy .631 Rivers without Mccoy and Norv .729 Rivers only problem is he hasnt had the great coaching some of these other guys have. 2 games, 6 points combined and 4 missed fgs is what separates 3 AFCC appearances vs 1. Outside of the 2013 Broncos, who were the highest scoring offense of all time, these are the scoring defenses Rivers has faced in the playoffs. 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8 avg of 3.8. Show me another QB who has faced that in the playoffs. In Rivers 6 playoff losses, offense has rushed fir 68.8 yds. If you take away the 2006 game vs NE, in 5 losses offense had 52 yds rushing. In those 6 playoff losses, his defense gave up an avg of 27 ppg. Keep in mind the level of defense he faced. Rivers hasnt been the issue in SD/LAC and if he was in some of these "elite qbs" situations, hed have far far more success. It seems a lot but for Ben Roethlisberger, 7 of the 8 losses he had in the playoffs, the steelers have allowed more than 27 points 7 times ... The only time the steelers had lost with less than 27 points allowed in the playoffs was in 2015 against Denver (23 points) and the steelers were without his number 1 WRand with a 3rd string RB. It's worse in the case of Aaron Rodgers...Something like 36 PPG in his 7 playoffs loss for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Steelersfan43 said: It seems a lot but for Ben Roethlisberger, 7 of the 8 losses he had in the playoffs, the steelers have allowed more than 27 points 7 times ... The only time the steelers had lost with less than 27 points allowed in the playoffs was in 2015 against Denver (23 points) and the steelers were without his number 1 WRand with a 3rd string RB. It's worse in the case of Aaron Rodgers...Something like 36 PPG in his 7 playoffs loss for him! Which might be true. But how good were the defenses they were facing? Just looking at Rodgers for example, Arizona was 14th defense in ppg, NYG was 24th and Atlanta was 27th. I wonder if the same is true for Ben? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Which might be true. But how good were the defenses they were facing? Just looking at Rodgers for example, Arizona was 14th defense in ppg, NYG was 24th and Atlanta was 27th. I wonder if the same is true for Ben? If it's for points against 2004:Pats 2nd 2007:Jaguars 10th 2010:Packers 2nd 2011:Denver 24th 2014:Ravens 6th 2015:Broncos 4th 2016:Patriots 1st 2017:Jaguars 2nd And 4 of his games, the steelers were with their backup RB as Najeh Davenport, Isaac Redman, Josh Harris and Fitzgerald Toussaint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, SkippyX said: Eli has 55,981 yards passing and 360 TDs with a not so great 84.1 rating. He is 116-114 as a starter. His highs are the ceiling and his lows are very low. Eli is 8-4 in the playoffs. His rating climbs to 87.4 which breaks down like this: Some really horrible 1 and done games like 2005 vs Carolina and 2008 vs Philly. 8 games of brilliance at about 100 rating that won his team a pair of Super Bowls. Rivers has 54,656 yards passing and 374 TDs and a wonderful 95.6 rating. He is 118-90 as a starter. His highs are back to back thrilling playoff wins against Peyton Manning.(with a big assist from Billy Volek) and I guess some pretty regular season TDs? His lows are every bit as low as Eli with those 6 playoff losses. Rivers is 5-6 in the playoffs and his rating dips to 84.2 in the playoffs. His one trip to the AFCCG was horrible. Eli has 5 game winning drives in the playoffs out of his 8 wins and 12 games. He will always be a winner. Rivers has 1 game winning drive in 5 wins and 11 games overall. He lost 4 playoff games by 3, 3, 7, and 9 and he had 3 TDs and 5 picks in those games. He is not a victim of bad teammates or bad coaches. He just never got it done.(yet!) If you like Rivers better because he's your guy. Have fun with that. If you prefer some extra regular season stats and wins to playoff excellence and a couple of parades then you are just wrong. I think you miss my point. Neither one of them currently belong in the HOF. Eli's problem is the opposite of Rivers. He had two great postseason run but has been subpar and inconsistent at everything else. He was Joe Flacco before Joe Flacco. His total stats should also be much better for someone who had a two year head start over Rivers. Edit: also not sure what you're going on about not being victims of bad coaching or teammates. Marlon McCree and Nate Kaeding would like a word with you. Edited August 21, 2019 by Xenos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) On 8/19/2019 at 9:49 AM, Nightime said: The same Bears team that beat Brees and NO 39-14? Both Bears and Chargers had an average margin of victory of 11 and 12, respectively. Pretty even. CHI beat Hasselbeck and Brees, Indy beat KC, 1# Ravens defense, and Brady on the road to the SB. The right teams got in Doesn't mean anything. AFC was 1000x stronger than the NFC during those years. Whoever of the Chargers, Ravens, Colts or Patriots came out of the AFC was going to be a heavy favorite and more likely beat the Bears fairly easily. (Like the Colts did) Edited August 21, 2019 by Bolts223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.