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Phillip Rivers Overrated?


KewlBeanz

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Reading this makes me appreciate Rivers even more. But also makes me upset that the team over the years never did a good job of surrounding him with better coaching and OL talent (like the Saints did with Brees). Hopefully Lynn is the one and Lamp actually lives up to his potential.

https://theathletic.com/1122889/2019/08/08/which-qbs-are-best-set-up-for-success-ranking-them-1-to-32/

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So today, we look at which quarterbacks are best set up for success. Things to consider: offensive lines, receiving weapons, efficient running games and coaching.

To be clear, this is not a ranking of the quarterbacks. There are some great quarterbacks down the list. That just means they have to do more to lift their teams.

At the top are the quarterbacks who are best set up for success.

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3. Drew Brees, Saints — The combination of Sean Payton and Brees is a lock to produce an efficient passing offense every year. Last year, the Saints gave up a sack or QB hit on 13.7 percent of their pass plays, the second-lowest mark in the league. Going into 2019, they again boast one of the league’s top offensive lines. Brees is surrounded by a pair of elite playmakers in Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas. Kamara ranked fifth last year with 1,592 yards from scrimmage. Thomas became the first player in NFL history to amass at least 1,400 yards receiving while catching at least 80 percent of his targets. With a healthier Ted Ginn and the addition of TE Jared Cook, Brees is in tremendous position to succeed.

 

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16. Philip Rivers, Chargers — The big concern is whether they can find answers on the offensive line before Week 1. Rivers was sacked or hit on 21.6 percent of his dropbacks last year, which ranked 19th. If that percentage goes up in 2019, the Chargers could be in trouble. Despite losing Tyrell Williams, Rivers still has a good group of pass-catchers to work with. Keenan Allen is their number one receiver, and Mike Williams made strides in his second season; 83.7 percent of his catches went for first downs — tops in the NFL. Their running backs are effective receivers too, and tight end Hunter Henry returns from injury.

 

Edited by Xenos
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Take a look at Cry Me a Rivers 2010

66% completions 4710 yards 30 TDs 13 picks 101.5 rating and every single yard was useless.

  • He was closer to LVP than MVP
  • He had a great defense. 
  • He had a running game of Tolbert/Matthews/Sproles that put up 1670 yards at 4.3 per carry and 18 TDs.

The ignorant will point to this season as a big reason he should be in the hall of fame with those yards, TDs, and rating.

 

Poor baby had the 2/1 offense and the 10/1 defense  (points/yards) and a kicker who was 23/28 (22/24 inside 50) and 40/40 and yes bad kick coverage teams.

  • This perennial loser dropped five games by one score. He had 8 TDs 4 picks and 6 fumbles in those games.
  • His 2 big losses were to 4-12 Cincy and part of getting swept by 8-8 Oakland.
    • The Raiders were 6-8 against the rest of the NFL but 2-0 vs Rivers.
    • The 35-27 game was sealed by a 68 yard scoop and score on a Rivers fumble.
  • The expected wins of that Chargers team was 10.9 but Rivers choked them to 9-7 and no playoffs. (Chiefs went 10-6)
  • I guess that was all on Norv Turner right?

In 2011 they started 4-1 and then lost 6 in a row on the way to 8-8.

  • Rivers had 13 TDs and 14 picks with 5 fumbles in those 8 losses.
  • I'd blame Norv here too. 

 

Guys like Ben and Brady are not just great because of the playoffs. They are also great because they win the big games to get to the playoffs as well.

Rivers is apparently just a stat compiling loser who gets much worse the closer you look.

He ONLY has 11 playoff games because he fails to get playoff talent to the playoffs or he underachieves in the playoffs with those teams.

  • Unless he gets Lamar Jackson, Andy Dalton, Vince Young ,or the king of 9 separate one-and-dones.

Even the 2008 team that was 8-8 and won a playoff game did not really overachieve by doing so. They had an expected wins of 10.2.

 

4 of his 14 career playoff touchdowns were garbage time 4th quarter scores when trailing by more that 16 points.

He has 5 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins. Trent Dilfer has 4 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins. Jake Delhomme has 6 in his 5.

 

This has been a lot of fun. I had no idea how truly awful this guy was until I started really digging.

Edited by SkippyX
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7 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Take a look at Cry Me a Rivers 2010

66% completions 4710 yards 30 TDs 13 picks 101.5 rating and every single yard was useless.

  • He was closer to LVP than MVP
  • He had a great defense. 
  • He had a running game of Tolbert/Matthews/Sproles that put up 1670 yards at 4.3 per carry and 18 TDs.

The ignorant will point to this season as a big reason he should be in the hall of fame with those yards, TDs, and rating.

 

Poor baby had the 2/1 offense and the 10/1 defense  (points/yards) and a kicker who was 23/28 (22/24 inside 50) and 40/40 and yes bad kick coverage teams.

  • This perennial loser dropped five games by one score. He had 8 TDs 4 picks and 6 fumbles in those games.
  • His 2 big losses were to 4-12 Cincy and part of getting swept by 8-8 Oakland.
    • The Raiders were 6-8 against the rest of the NFL but 2-0 vs Rivers.
    • The 35-27 game was sealed by a 68 yard scoop and score on a Rivers fumble.
  • The expected wins of that Chargers team was 10.9 but Rivers choked them to 9-7 and no playoffs. (Chiefs went 10-6)
  • I guess that was all on Norv Turner right?

In 2011 they started 4-1 and then lost 6 in a row on the way to 8-8.

  • Rivers had 13 TDs and 14 picks with 5 fumbles in those 8 losses.
  • I'd blame Norv here too. 

 

Guys like Ben and Brady are not just great because of the playoffs. They are also great because they win the big games to get to the playoffs as well.

Rivers is apparently just a stat compiling loser who gets much worse the closer you look.

He ONLY has 11 playoff games because he fails to get playoff talent to the playoffs or he underachieves in the playoffs with those teams.

  • Unless he gets Lamar Jackson, Andy Dalton, Vince Young ,or the king of 9 separate one-and-dones.

Even the 2008 team that was 8-8 and won a playoff game did not really overachieve by doing so. They had an expected wins of 10.2.

 

4 of his 14 career playoff touchdowns were garbage time 4th quarter scores when trailing by more that 16 points.

He has 5 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins. Trent Dilfer has 4 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins.

 

This has been a lot of fun. I had no idea how truly awful this guy was until I started really digging.

I think all you've proven is that you really don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for trying though. The bolded part in particular shows how much you miss the point.

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This really needs its own post:

TD passes in playoff wins

  • Dilfer  4 in 5
  • Rivers 5 in 5
  • Delhomme 6 in 5
  • Eli 15 in 8
  • Foles 8 in 4
  • Roethlisberger 16 in 13
  • Warner 24 in 9
  • Kelly 12 in 9
  • Montana 36 in 16
  • Brady 58 in 30
  • Goff 1 in 2
  • Plunkett 9 in 8
  • Dak 1 in 1
  • Collins 7 in 3
  • Testaverde 2 in 2
  • Cunningham 6 in 3
  • McNabb 15 in 9
  • Luck 9 in 4
  • Wilson 9 in 7
  • Rodgers 21 in 9
  • Hostetler 6 in 4
  • Peyton 25 in 14
  • Favre 25 in 13
  • Aikman 19 in 11

 

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25 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I think all you've proven is that you really don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for trying though. The bolded part in particular shows how much you miss the point.

He did just enough to make sure his team would not make the playoffs.

 

WARNING: THIS IS JUST AN ANALOGY

Its the same way that Brees throwing for 510 and 2 TDs against the Bengals at home in 2006 was not a good game.

2  picks into the end zone and a pick 6 resulted in a 31-16 loss, but hey look at the shiny stats!

*Brees is fantastic and a Hall of Fame player but he was the LVP of that game even though the 510 pushed him to the passing yards title that year.

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1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Here are the tenants of the loser:

  • winning is overrated
  • winning in the playoffs is overrated
  • playing well in the playoffs is overrated
  • my player is great and all failures are due to coaching / defense / injuries / cheating / conspiracy / bad luck
  • we prefer 5 or 6 extra regular seasons of mediocrity over winning league MVPs and Super Bowls
  • Jim Plunkett > Brady because he is perfect in Super Bowls
  • My player is unfortunate because he lost coach x who was fired for not winning a playoff game at 14-2 because my player was awful... but no blame goes to my player

 

Rivers over Warner Logic: 

  • 0 Super Bowls > 3 Super Bowls
  • 0 Rings > 1 Ring
  • 0 MVPS > 3 MVPs
  • 5-6 > 9-4
  • 84.2 > 102.8 

The Rams were a joke franchise that went 4-12 before Warner took over. (0 playoff wins in 10 years before Warner)

  • They turned back into a joke franchise when he left (1 playoff win in 10 years after Warner)
  • He may as well have arrived from Krypton the way he played in 1999

The Cardinals were a joke franchise before Warner took over (1 playoff win in 10 years before Warner)

  • They turned back into a joke franchise when he left (1 playoff win in 10 years following Warner)
    • Aaron Rodgers went 28-42 for 423 yards 4 TDs and a pick for a 121.4 rating scoring 45 points in a playoff game and he lost to Warner
    • Warner went 29-33 for 379 yards 5 TDs and no picks for a 154.1 rating to force OT when 27-33 probably means a loss.

 

Warner played in 3 Super Bowls and had the 1st, 2nd and 3rd most passing yards in a Super Bowl until Brady and Foles put up their 2016 and 2017 great games.

  • He was MVP of XXXIV
  • He brought his team back from 17-3 in the 4th quarter of XXXVI including making it 17-17 with 1:30 to play
  • He gave his team a 23-20 lead in XLIII with 2:37 to play

 

What exactly did your guy do in the playoffs?

 

When you cant counter an argument, throw a hissy fit. Fam you tried making an argument that Norv Turner is a good coach or even avg. Then you went on to make excuses, blame everyone for his failures on multiple teams. When the entire league says he isnt as evidence by him not getting a single look as HC like 7 years after his last HC gig. He hasnt been able to hold a OC jobs for long either since. That take is nearly impossible to comeback from.

Rivers has had 3 bad playoff games. 1 was his 1st year and 1 was on a torn ACL. Excuses, or actual facts that dictate the variables we are measuring. Since when did situational circumstances become excuses.

He had 4 avg playoff games and 5 good playoff games. To measure qbs by 2 or 3 games, regardless how "big" they are is 1, lazy af, 2 disingenuous and near sighted. 

Rivers has 5 seasons... PLURAL seasons with 100 passer ratings, only 4 other qbs have that (min 400 attempts) 

 

People can poopoo probowls, but players and coaches vote for them and only 11 qbs in NFL history have made 8 or more. These are them.  All in the HO or will be. If Rivers doesnt, it will be unprecedented. Keep trying to sell Rivers as JAG. You had the audacity to say he was the 20th best of his generation. Stop fam, this aint it

 

 

Player From
1 Peyton Manning 1998
2 Tom Brady 2000
3 Drew Brees 2001
4 Brett Favre* 1991
5 Dan Marino* 1983
6 Fran Tarkenton* 1961
7 John Elway* 1983
8 Warren Moon* 1984
9 Philip Rivers 2004
10 Joe Montana* 1979
11 Bob Griese* 1967

 

 

 

  Games Passing Misc
Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Pick6 TD% Int% Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A ANY/A Y/G W L T 4QC GWD Yrs PB
AP1 AV
1 Peyton Manning 1998 2015 1-1 TOT NFL 266 265 6125 9380 65.30 71940 539 251 27 5.7 2.68 96.5 303 1953 7.67 7.61 7.17 270.5 186 79 0 43 54 17 14 7 271
2 Tom Brady 2000 2018 6-199 NWE NFL 269 267 6004 9375 64.04 70514 517 171 13 5.5 1.82 97.6 473 2944 7.52 7.80 7.13 262.1 207 60 0 35 44 19 14 3 269
3 Drew Brees 2001 2018 2-32 TOT NFL 264 263 6586 9783 67.32 74437 520 233 27 5.3 2.38 97.7 395 2813 7.61 7.60 7.03 282.0 155 108 0 34 48 18 12 1 256
4 Brett Favre* 1991 2010 2-33 TOT NFL 302 298 6300 10169 61.95 71838 508 336 32 5 3.30 86.0 525 3487 7.06 6.58 5.93 237.9 186 112 0 28 43 20 11 3 255
5 Dan Marino* 1983 1999 1-27 MIA NFL 242 240 4967 8358 59.43 61361 420 252 28 5 3.02 86.4 270 1930 7.34 6.99 6.55 253.6 147 93 0 33 47 17 9 3 216
6 Fran Tarkenton* 1961 1978 3-29, 5-34AFL TOT NFL 246 239 3686 6467 57.00 47003 342 266 12 5.3 4.11 80.4 274 2337 7.27 6.47 5.26 191.1 124 109 6 29 33 18 9 1 236
7 John Elway* 1983 1998 1-1 DEN NFL 234 231 4123 7250 56.87 51475 300 226 18 4.1 3.12 79.9 516 3785 7.10 6.52 5.60 220.0 148 82 1 31 40 16 9 0 203
8 Warren Moon* 1984 2000   TOT NFL 208 203 3988 6823 58.45 49325 291 233 16 4.3 3.41 80.9 458 3415 7.23 6.55 5.66 237.1 102 101 0 25 35 17 9 0 166
9 Philip Rivers 2004 2018 1-4 SDG NFL 212 208 4518 7000 64.54 54656 374 178 23 5.3 2.54 95.6 411 2492 7.81 7.73 6.97 257.8 118 90 0 26 30 15 8 0 191
10 Joe Montana* 1979 1994 3-82 TOT NFL 192 164 3409 5391 63.24 40551 273 139 6 5.1 2.58 92.3 313 2095 7.52 7.37 6.60 211.2 117 47 0 26 28 15 8 3 164
11 Bob Griese* 1967 1980 1-4 MIA TOT 161 151 1926 3429 56.17 25092 192 172 11 5.6 5.02 77.1 267 2318 7.32 6.18 5.05 155.9 92 56 3 15 19 14 8 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Rivers 2016 pro bowl is my favorite.

He led the league in picks and the team was 5-11.

He was 19th in passer rating behind 1-11 Kaepernick and 7-8 Tyrod Taylor

Buy your tickets to Canton!

 

 

 

 

He was also 5th in yds and 4th in td passes and was qb of the 9th best scoring offense in the league, 4th best in the AFC. We can go and look at MVP seasons or probowl or all pro seasons for all qbs and say whether they deserved it or not. Only 11 in history with 8 or more. 

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13 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Take a look at Cry Me a Rivers 2010

66% completions 4710 yards 30 TDs 13 picks 101.5 rating and every single yard was useless.

  • He was closer to LVP than MVP
  • He had a great defense. 
  • He had a running game of Tolbert/Matthews/Sproles that put up 1670 yards at 4.3 per carry and 18 TDs.

The ignorant will point to this season as a big reason he should be in the hall of fame with those yards, TDs, and rating.

 

Poor baby had the 2/1 offense and the 10/1 defense  (points/yards) and a kicker who was 23/28 (22/24 inside 50) and 40/40 and yes bad kick coverage teams.

  • This perennial loser dropped five games by one score. He had 8 TDs 4 picks and 6 fumbles in those games.
  • His 2 big losses were to 4-12 Cincy and part of getting swept by 8-8 Oakland.
    • The Raiders were 6-8 against the rest of the NFL but 2-0 vs Rivers.
    • The 35-27 game was sealed by a 68 yard scoop and score on a Rivers fumble.
  • The expected wins of that Chargers team was 10.9 but Rivers choked them to 9-7 and no playoffs. (Chiefs went 10-6)
  • I guess that was all on Norv Turner right?

In 2011 they started 4-1 and then lost 6 in a row on the way to 8-8.

  • Rivers had 13 TDs and 14 picks with 5 fumbles in those 8 losses.
  • I'd blame Norv here too. 

 

Guys like Ben and Brady are not just great because of the playoffs. They are also great because they win the big games to get to the playoffs as well.

Rivers is apparently just a stat compiling loser who gets much worse the closer you look.

He ONLY has 11 playoff games because he fails to get playoff talent to the playoffs or he underachieves in the playoffs with those teams.

  • Unless he gets Lamar Jackson, Andy Dalton, Vince Young ,or the king of 9 separate one-and-dones.

Even the 2008 team that was 8-8 and won a playoff game did not really overachieve by doing so. They had an expected wins of 10.2.

 

4 of his 14 career playoff touchdowns were garbage time 4th quarter scores when trailing by more that 16 points.

He has 5 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins. Trent Dilfer has 4 TD passes in his 5 playoff wins. Jake Delhomme has 6 in his 5.

 

This has been a lot of fun. I had no idea how truly awful this guy was until I started really digging.

This just proves how little you really know. Anyone who actually watched football would tell you 2010 Chargers ST was one of the worst units ever and literally cost Chargers 3 games.

Your ability to analyze data to create stories is pretty awful. I never really read your post before. I assumed they were credible because you put them in a pretty format and posted stats. But if they are like this in content, glad i didnt read them.

Qb had great numbers, offense was tops in the league, STs was all time bad and had multiple game losing plays, including to NE. But somehow the narrative you came up with is its on Rivers. This topic got ya flustered and now you are just desperately flailing. Not a good look

 

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7 hours ago, Starless said:



Timely

Special team is also important.The Chargers were also at -6 in turnovers differential which was hard to overcome ... The Chargers had won only 2 games against a team with a winning record too (Against the Colts and the Chiefs with Brodie Croyle).

The 1991 49ers were the best team ever (since 1990) to not make the playoffs ... For the Chargers, even the 2005 Chargers were a much better team who missed the playoffs.The 2005 Chargers had played against 11 teams that had a winning record and they had several weird losses.I think this team was better than every team in the NFC in 2005 including the Seahawks who had a very soft schedule

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