Vince Williams' time with Steelers over?

[3rivers]

7 hours ago, Chieferific said:

FWIW: Bush is the NFL Network's prediction for DPOY. 

I thought it was rookie DPOY? Isn't Donald the one that is expected to walk away with DPOY? Only an injury would affect that unless someone really has a historic season.

[VigilantZombie]

2 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Agreed, but you can only go by what you see now. Don't get me wrong. It's not like Burns has been great this Pre-Season. He's still a "bust". But he is playing better then Sutton. If it came down to the 2 of them...Burns must stay.  

That I agree with

[Steeler Hitman]

8 hours ago, Chieferific said:

FWIW: Bush is the NFL Network's prediction for DPOY. 

That is pretty lofty. I don't know that a rookie has ever been DPOY.  Maybe **** Butkis? If there are any stats guru's who know the answer, please clarify.  I would think that they meant Defensive Rookie of the Year (DROY).  Yeah I think that Aaron Donald and a lot of other vets will have a say in that as well.

[VigilantZombie]

I can see Bush achieving it though if he is the player in our defense I think he will be.

I don't think Bush would habe subverted at the level that he is going to with the Steelers on any other team tbh.

[Big Snack]

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

That is pretty lofty. I don't know that a rookie has ever been DPOY.  Maybe **** Butkis? If there are any stats guru's who know the answer, please clarify.  I would think that they meant Defensive Rookie of the Year (DROY).  Yeah I think that Aaron Donald and a lot of other vets will have a say in that as well.

Lawrence Taylor is the only rookie to win DPOY

[Chieferific]

5 hours ago, 3rivers said:

I thought it was rookie DPOY? Isn't Donald the one that is expected to walk away with DPOY? Only an injury would affect that unless someone really has a historic season.

Yes. Correct. That's what I meant. My bad. DPOY would be amazing but I'd be happy with DROY. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Chieferific

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, Big Snack said:

Lawrence Taylor is the only rookie to win DPOY

Thanks Big Snack!   That would be pretty "elite" company to match.  LT is the greatest modern era OLB in the game and an absolute "game changer!" If young Mr. Bush could be even half of that we would be in great shape. I would settle for DROTY and would absolutely lose it if he was that great because he would be better than just good.

I was a fan of this selection.  I am hoping that he can do for us what Ray Lewis did for the Ravens. (That's a very lofty expectation). I am not saying that he will be the next "great MLB/ILB, but hoping that with the changes in the game, he can become great at what he is good at and what this defense needs from him.  That is not necessarily to be Jack Lambert, Mike Singletary, Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis in our defense, but to be a quick/fast flowing ILB who can disrupt and cover.  Many make comparisons to Shazier, but I don't see that as much.

I will say that Bush reminds me more of Ray Lewis when he came out of college.  Both are similar in size and playing style.  What made Ray Lewis great was his passion for the game, leadership, football IQ, study and work ethics and he was a pretty bad dude.  He was not the most physically gifted, but man did he play the game hard. I hope that Bush can create his own legacy and reputation. 

[3rivers]

21 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Yes. Correct. That's what I meant. My bad. DPOY would be amazing but I'd be happy with DROY. 

all I am hoping for is that he is a solid starter from day 1, what else can a fan ask for anyways. I don't expect Shazier.2 either, and I am tired of people hoping that.  LT DPOY as a rook, only LT could do that. I thought Jevon Kearse had a good rookie campaign 

[VigilantZombie]

There is 0 chance a healthy Devin Bush isnt starting Day 1. VW will only start if we start out in base formation imo

[3rivers]

On 2019-08-29 at 6:49 PM, wwhickok said:

There is 0 chance a healthy Devin Bush isnt starting Day 1. VW will only start if we start out in base formation imo

so where does Baron play? Maybe the Baron and Bush additions also will have the team playing more Hybrid or Nickel type D? 

[VigilantZombie]

Just now, 3rivers said:

so where does Baron play? Maybe the Baron and Bush additions also will have the team playing more Hybrid or Nickel type D? 

I think Baron plays opposite Bush in sub package / on-base play. They're gonna use Bush and Baron to cover the RBs and TEs in the middle of the field and use Bush to rush the QB while Baron drops into coverage. In obvious run situations imo VW will be in there to help Bush

[3rivers]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

I think Baron plays opposite Bush in sub package / on-base play. They're gonna use Bush and Baron to cover the RBs and TEs in the middle of the field and use Bush to rush the QB while Baron drops into coverage. In obvious run situations imo VW will be in there to help Bush

this all sound like a good approach but how do you know when the team is going to run? After about 80 years and several rule changes , NFL coaches decided to pass on  much more often including on first down. There was a time when run defenders would stay out there on 1st and 2nd down, but the game is different now. Maybe once the game is under control, then let williams play , and "preserve" the starters? 

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, 3rivers said:

this all sound like a good approach but how do you know when the team is going to run? After about 80 years and several rule changes , NFL coaches decided to pass on  much more often including on first down. There was a time when run defenders would stay out there on 1st and 2nd down, but the game is different now. Maybe once the game is under control, then let williams play , and "preserve" the starters? 

I mean you dont really know. It's a guessing game. It's going to come down to Keith Butler doing a good job at analyzing the opposing personnel and putting the right guys out there based on what you believe they're going to do. You're not always going to guess right, but in situations where a team would normally run, that's where I see VW getting most of his experience.

[3rivers]

On 2019-08-28 at 7:33 PM, Steeler Hitman said:

I will say that Bush reminds me more of Ray Lewis when he came out of college.  Both are similar in size and playing style.  What made Ray Lewis great was his passion for the game, leadership, football IQ, study and work ethics and he was a pretty bad dude.  He was not the most physically gifted, but man did he play the game hard. I hope that Bush can create his own legacy and reputation. 

despite what no ravens say about Lewis,  what you said I agree with. I don't expect Bush to be Shazier.2 or Lewis , but in his own way just be a legit solid starter. His speed should help as long as his angles and tackling are good too. I really hope he is a good tackler, I just can't stand bad tackling, a reason I don't care for the game that much anymore. Baron is said to be a solid tackler and a hitter, so maybe that brings attitude to the defense which is also needed.  There are characters in that campfire pic from the ravens game that are to blame for this D's lack of attitude

[VigilantZombie]

Also, I dont know that beyond Bush I consider has having specific ILB starters. It's going to come down to specific situations on who plays. VW can play in limited coverage, he just isnt someone who should be covering WRs. So offenses cant just assume our defensive plan just because VW is on the field. However I do believe Ulysses Gilbert is the successor to VW/Baron. He has shown a quality ability to get after the ball carrier and make plays. He is fast, it's not going to happen this year but imo ultimately our LB Corps is going to be designed to eliminate an offenses ability to succeed in the middle of the field with RBs and TEs. Something that is long overdue.