wackywabbit Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: IMO, Lamar did well in the system he was in last year and put in a very good position to have some success as a rookie QB. He had a great defense with a very limited/college friendly transition into the NFL offense, a lot of double TE sets, causing personnel match-up issues in the running game as well as play-action passing game. That said, I don't care WHO the QB is, running the ball as much as he did last year is COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE in the NFL. Sustainability is overrated. The NFL is a year to year league. You are NOT going to get an answer about how sustainable a guy is within a season. It's just something you can indefinitely say regardless of what transpires. Tom Brady playing well past 35 has been unsustainable for several years now and its still considered unsustainable in his 40s for good reason, but its missing the point. Its actually quite an assumption that any QB is going to be good and healthy 10 years from now. The Ravens have him cheap and under contract for 4 years. Pivoting is always an option down the road. All we are going to get an answer to is if he plays well enough to help the team this year. Like sure the Browns string of losing seasons has certainly been unsustainable for many years now. But, the relevant question is if it going to happen this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 hours ago, VanS said: I had Lamar rated as the 2nd best QB in the 2018 draft. I thought he would be a superstar QB that would light the league on fire. I would love to agree with this guy so that I'm proven right. But if I'm being honest with myself, I'm having some buyers remorse about Lamar going into Year 2. That's where I'm at. And no I didn't have him as the 2nd best QB like you did, but I saw him as a fringe top 10 pick based purely on potential. But after seeing just how God awful some of the throws he made last year, I can't in good conscience keep my opinion that he would be a potential stud. And I'm a Browns fan but I don't discriminate based on that. I thought the Ravens and the Steelers had great drafts this past April. Calling out Lamar Jackson for not being able to throw is calling a spade a spade. I could care less about what analytics tell us. Football success isn't measured through random formulas some guy made up in his basement. The ugly throws that Lamar Jackson made last year made me want to give up on him. Truth be told, I was rooting for Lamar. I watched his first start with hope that he would rip it up and give us the kinds of highlights that nobody else before him had. But that's just not gonna happen. It's a bit harsh to say, "he sucks," but he's certainly not ever going to be a good passing QB if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Sustainability is overrated. NOT if you're asking a QB to run the ball 15 times a game AND NOT if someone can't/doesn't evolve. Ask Robert Griffin, Derek Anderson, Rick Mirer, and others who couldn't evolve their games. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: The NFL is a year to year league. I agree. And year to year, a QB especially had better EVOLVE/progress. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: You are NOT going to get an answer about how sustainable a guy is within a season. That's literally what I said. 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: That said, I don't care WHO the QB is, running the ball as much as he did last year is COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE in the NFL. Also, CONTEXT matters. I said that it's not sustainable in terms of longevity. There's a historical precedent here for QB's who run the ball THAT much. If Cam Newton, who is WAY bigger/stronger than Lamar can't do it, neither can Lamar. See: Vick, RGIII, Cunningham, Steve Young (early years), etc. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: It's just something you can indefinitely say regardless of what transpires. Tom Brady playing well past 35 has been unsustainable for several years now and its still considered unsustainable in his 40s for good reason, but its missing the point. Running the ball 15 times a game isn't sustainable. Quit taking my words/quote, which I was kind enough to post again for you, out of context. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Its actually quite an assumption that any QB is going to be good and healthy 10 years from now. It's not an assumption to say that he WON'T be healthy 10 years from now IF HE RUNS THE BALL 15 TIMES A GAME! To argue otherwise is asinine. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: The Ravens have him cheap and under contract for 4 years. Pivoting is always an option down the road. I 100% agree. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: All we are going to get an answer to is if he plays well enough to help the team this year. Most likely, yes. That said, if he shows great improvement throwing the ball consistently, especially from the pocket, some of those questions may start to get answered. Over 20 games of a sample size is a lot better/more of an indicator than 6. 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Like sure the Browns string of losing seasons has certainly been unsustainable for many years now. But, the relevant question is if it going to happen this year 4th time you took my quote out of context. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Hockey5djh said: He's tall. Has the strongest arm maybe ever. Has excellent athleticism. Is tough as nails and can absorb punishment. Has zero around him in Buffalo or in college. Allen makes some bad decisions, but the whole, "he can't throw accurately" thing is way overblown. He's a deep shot QB that won't pepper defenses underneath to preserve his completion percentage. Of course guys that take deep shots aren't gonna be as accurate. And Josh Allen was pretty darn good for the Bills last year. Lamar was good for the Ravens too, but unlike Lamar, Allen doesn't seem mechanically broken. Allen needs to improve his mental processing speed. Lamar needs to improve from a fundamental standpoint way more than Allen does. Maybe both bust. Maybe both become great. But their on-field struggles are not coming from an identical issue. I am a big Josh Allen fan and I think he's going to be a star in this league in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: We already have enough Lamar Jackson sucks threads. That’s not even a real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: That’s not even a real thing. Every thread that has Lamar Jackson's name in it turns into a "Lamar Jackson Sucks" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said: Every thread that has Lamar Jackson's name in it turns into a "Lamar Jackson Sucks" thread. If the shoe fits.... 😂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 hours ago, Jeezla said: way too ugly to ever be a good QB I think he's hot. So what if he looks like he was beaten with a shovel for the first 13 years of his life? Plus, having eyes that far apart allows him to see the edge pressure better. Plus, who doesn't like a weak chin and and acne scars? ...I feel bad now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, iknowcool said: No way. Almost everyone agreed Wilson was underdrafted because of his height and the Seahawks were the most popular Super Bowl pick going into 2013 because of Wilson, along with a bunch of other reasons. Not that the top 100 isn't garbage, but he was voted the #22 player after his 2nd season. He may have had a group of detractors, like almost any successful athlete, but it definitely did not take him 4-5 years to gain respect. Really? During those first few years people said Wilson was overrated because of his defense and run game. It wasn't until Marshawn left and Wilson became literally the entire offense that people started actually recognizing him for the player he always was. 10 hours ago, NYJets4716 said: Jackson had 6 TD passes, hes a runner not a thrower. Now, as for Lamar Jackson, look here we already have one person making a conclusion on Lamar Jackson based off of his rookie year and deciding that Lamar is not a passer. Man, isn't that just weird? Edited August 21, 2019 by AFlaccoSeagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 31 minutes ago, MWil23 said: NOT if you're asking a QB to run the ball 15 times a game AND NOT if someone can't/doesn't evolve. Ask Robert Griffin, Derek Anderson, Rick Mirer, and others who couldn't evolve their games. I agree. And year to year, a QB especially had better EVOLVE/progress. That's literally what I said. Also, CONTEXT matters. I said that it's not sustainable in terms of longevity. There's a historical precedent here for QB's who run the ball THAT much. If Cam Newton, who is WAY bigger/stronger than Lamar can't do it, neither can Lamar. See: Vick, RGIII, Cunningham, Steve Young (early years), etc. Running the ball 15 times a game isn't sustainable. Quit taking my words/quote, which I was kind enough to post again for you, out of context. It's not an assumption to say that he WON'T be healthy 10 years from now IF HE RUNS THE BALL 15 TIMES A GAME! To argue otherwise is asinine. I 100% agree. Most likely, yes. That said, if he shows great improvement throwing the ball consistently, especially from the pocket, some of those questions may start to get answered. Over 20 games of a sample size is a lot better/more of an indicator than 6. 4th time you took my quote out of context. LOL. Fair enough. I skimmed what you said and focused on the all caps words. That said, if Lamar manages to lead us to double digit wins again, I'm not going to care how or if it was sustainable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If the shoe fits.... 😂 It doesn't though, that's the funny part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: It doesn't though, that's the funny part. I’m just busting balls. I’m personally not a fan of his style of play, but he’s all of 22 and entering his second year. He’s by no means a finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 You can go too far to either end of the 'manalytics' vs analytics spectrum for football. Warren is the extreme of the analytics side. I don't think the arbitrary cutoffs and cherry-picked numbers he picked for this article are relevant for predicting the overall success of Lamar Jackson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 LaMar Jackson has shown me nothing so far to suggest that he can be a good NFL passer long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Danger said: LaMar Jackson has shown me nothing so far to suggest that he can be a good NFL passer long term. Nothing after 6 games of his rookie year playing in a system installed on a bye week in a year he wasn't supposed to play? Well, lock it up folks. He's peaked. Nowhere to go but downhill from last year. Edited August 21, 2019 by AFlaccoSeagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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