GDT: Preseason Week 3: Bears at Colts

[dll2000]

27 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Hub said he was told in an emergency that Whitehair would play LT.

Bars should be made ready as well if their is a long term Leno injury.

Bars I think could be a real asset a year removed from ACL and a year of NFL practice experience.  

I think he could be a serviceable to good starter in this league in time.  Perhaps more.  

[dll2000]

If Massie goes down I think it’s whoever is next up if Leno goes down (for season) I think they shuffle deck and Whitehair goes to LT.  

[WindyCity]

-Lets start with the most obvious and important result of last night. Eddie Piniero going 5/5 with a crushed 58 yarder was the single biggest thing to happen in that game and a star QB retired at halftime. I wanted Nagy to send him out again from 56, but I started to realize that this needed to be a launching pad for Piniero and a miss would have soured it. He looked like a guy who should be kicking week 1 for the Bears. It was also nice to see a high volume of kicks and not this splitting kicks that left each guy with 1 or 2 and a harder evaluation.

 

-I am not going to throw stones at Chase Daniel. He is playing in a high school offense with a horrendous abomination of an OL and he is out there just trying to survive.

 

-I am also not sure how you keep Ryan Nall off the team. He continues to produce, he can play FB and TE in a pinch, and he looks good in short yardage and has some big play ability. I know Whyte is fast, but the Bears have the best kick returner in the league in Patterson and I think Nall will be better covering kicks, which was an issue for the Bears last season.

 

-I keep waiting for Bradley Sowell to show me something because I think he is making the team, but I continue to not be impressed with much of anything that he does.

 

-Ian Bunting continues to catch the ball really well. I think he ends up on the PR to work on his blocking, but the guy has some seriously soft hands and made a beautiful adjustment to the ball on the Bray big gain.

 

-Jesper Holstad, has my attention. Another very solid catcher of the football.

 

-Cornelius Lucas is really bad.

 

-T.J Clemmings is not much better.

 

-Alex Bars is a keeper and had some nice moments at LT. I am going to rewatch and give more thorough impressions tomorrow.

 

 

 

-Kylie Fitts is bad. I know he had a sack when the OT did not get out of his stance, but my god the rest of the time he is getting owned.

 

-Isaiah Irving needs to start being more decisive in his pass rushes. He has a decent burst, but it is like he doesn't want to commit to one more or the other and sort of gets caught in the middle.

 

-James Vaughters probably needs to make the team. He is the only backup OLB that has shown any consistent pass rush. He gets off the ball hard and actually seems to have a plan for getting to the QB. He played special teams for the Stampeders in the CFL [8 tackles] which makes it seem like a natural fit as the 5 rusher.

 

-Adbullah Anderson might knock Bullard off the team. He brings a ton of energy and is actually an okay interior pass rusher. 

 

-I am not sure what Bullard really does well. From time to time he makes a decent run stop and then goes invisible for the rest of the quarter. I do not see the quick first step and penetrating ability I was expecting.

 

-I think Nick Williams will make the team again. He appears to be the best backup NT option and he has the power to play early downs.

 

-Kwit is a guy I want to cut, but then he makes a bunch of plays. I think we know he is not a long term starter or an impact guy, but he plays the run well, blitzs well, and can play special teams and call the defense.

 

-If the Bears keep Iggy because he is a draft pick and cut Josh Woods I think that would be idiotic. Woods looks like a LB and has the same speed and athletic ability as Iggy. Iggy has the instincts of a rock. He looks lost most of the time and outside of a super nice blitz I thought he as abused in the screen game.

 

-Duke Shelley looks like a good pick.

 

-Deon Bush has come alive, I would not be shocked if HHCD gets nicked up that Bush does not take his job.

 

-Was hoping to see more out of Kevin Tolliver in the games. Not that he has been bad, but I was hoping he would look better than the backups like a 1.5 instead of a number 2.

[soulman]

Mark me down as another who feels the solution if Leno is injured will come from either Bars or Whitehair.

If Bars can't handle it you play him at LG where he's been backing Cody anyway and slide Whitehair out.

We have to protect that blindside and using those two even if it means a flip for Whitehair causes minimal disruption compared to other possibilities.  It's either that or pray a vet LT falls in our lap.....or a unicorn which is probably more likely than a competent LT.

[Sugashane]

7 hours ago, soulman said:

Be that as it may I'll still take Daniel over Bray once the starters are playing.

I would too, definitely. I'm just saying he is being overrated a bit on here.

 

6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t see either of those as a real option tbh. The interior of our OL Whitehair-Daniels-Long is an absolute asset I don’t think they’d mess with at all. Besides neither Long or Whitehair has played tackle in years. What makes you so sure they'd be any better than Bars was yesterday? I wouldn’t want to weaken two positions. Especially when you can help an inexperienced OT out with TE and RB help, move the pocket, etc. 

They are assets on the interior of the OL, but not near as much as Tru is an asset as the QB. The drop off for the team with one of them kicking out and a younger guy going in is MUCH lower than what we have when Daniel goes in regardless of who gets moved around.

We have seen Long play at an acceptable level as a RT with no real practice until right before week 1, he played OT in college at a good level. Whitehair played LT as well and was stellar at it. Bars was an OT for 1 year and then was kicked inside. Between college and the pros both have more experience and are much better overall athletes than Bars is. I see no reason at all to think he would be better. If so then why wouldn't he have made a case for the spot over Coward, Lucas, and Clemmings? Honestly his play against 3rd stringers isn't instilling any confidence he can step in and do the job immediately at OT. I mean if we are dead set on having Shaheen/Sowell chip and double each pass play then fine, start Bars in that instance. He seems strong enough at the POA and isn't a clumsy oaf by any means, but you can help OGs just as easily with RB chips, OC help when they don't have a NT directly over, RB chips, moving pockets, etc.

 

I like the kid a lot, and hope he is Long's heir. But I don't see him as an OT this year. Maybe in a year or two of work there sure, but he isn't near the athlete (especially coming back from his injury) to jump out there against the NFL elites. Even with TE help that is a bad look this year IMO.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Sugashane

[AZBearsFan]

5 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Hub said he was told in an emergency that Whitehair would play LT.

Fair enough. To me an emergency means two OT injuries in the same game though, not that he’s the primary backup. 

[AZBearsFan]

38 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I would too, definitely. I'm just saying he is being overrated a bit on here.

 

They are assets on the interior of the OL, but not near as much as Tru is an asset as the QB. The drop off for the team with one of them kicking out and a younger guy going in is MUCH lower than what we have when Daniel goes in regardless of who gets moved around.

We have seen Long play at an acceptable level as a RT with no real practice until right before week 1, he played OT in college at a good level. Whitehair played LT as well and was stellar at it. Bars was an OT for 1 year and then was kicked inside. Between college and the pros both have more experience and are much better overall athletes than Bars is. I see no reason at all to think he would be better. If so then why wouldn't he have made a case for the spot over Coward, Lucas, and Clemmings? Honestly his play against 3rd stringers isn't instilling any confidence he can step in and do the job immediately at OT. I mean if we are dead set on having Shaheen/Sowell chip and double each pass play then fine, start Bars in that instance. He seems strong enough at the POA and isn't a clumsy oaf by any means, but you can help OGs just as easily with RB chips, OC help when they don't have a NT directly over, RB chips, moving pockets, etc.

 

I like the kid a lot, and hope he is Long's heir. But I don't see him as an OT this year. Maybe in a year or two of work there sure, but he isn't near the athlete (especially coming back from his injury) to jump out there against the NFL elites. Even with TE help that is a bad look this year IMO.

Assuming Coward were not available, can he really be worse than Clemmings or Lucas have been? At least Bars looked solid against the 2/3 string for the Colts. Clemmings and Lucas have been atrocious against the same guys. I’m not trying to suggest it’s ideal or should even be a Plan A that should stop us from scouring the market for other options - I’m merely suggesting that he’s not the worst option. Bars didn’t look out of place in the least yesterday. Not great, and certainly against reserves, but capable. When you’re talking about a depth player and especially a rookie one capable isn’t a terrible spot to be in. Capable is something we don’t have with Clemmings or Lucas, and may not have in Coward either. How many teams if one of their starting OT goes down have a swing they’re comfortable saying they’ll have minimal drop off? Pretty short list IMO. Bars is very possibly destined to be a future RG for us but in the meantime he showed enough there yesterday to at least get some run at OT in the preseason to see if he could be the guy who kicks out to OT as needed in 2020 and beyond too. If he’s capable or better there he could be the guy who replaces Massie in 2 years too. This would seemingly be the time to find out what he can and cannot do. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

8 hours ago, soulman said:

Be that as it may I'll still take Daniel over Bray once the starters are playing.

I would too, definitely. I'm just saying he is being overrated a bit on here.

He may be if based solely on his physical skills.  He's kind of the antithesis of Mitch.  He's not very mobile and he has a very average arm at best although he's been fairly accurate with it at times.

dll2000 is right.  If we lose Mitch this season would be chalked up as just another learning experience.  Best we might expect out of either Daniel or Bray is a .500 record if that.  We can't win every game with defense if we can't score at least 20 points per game.

But as it stands it looks like it's gonna be #1-Mitch, #2-Daniel, and #3 Bray again this year so let's hope Mitch stays healthy.

[soulman]

37 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Assuming Coward were not available, can he really be worse than Clemmings or Lucas have been? At least Bars looked solid against the 2/3 string for the Colts. Clemmings and Lucas have been atrocious against the same guys. I’m not trying to suggest it’s ideal or should even be a Plan A that should stop us from scouring the market for other options - I’m merely suggesting that he’s not the worst option. Bars didn’t look out of place in the least yesterday. Not great, and certainly against reserves, but capable. When you’re talking about a depth player and especially a rookie one capable isn’t a terrible spot to be in. Capable is something we don’t have with Clemmings or Lucas, and may not have in Coward either. How many teams if one of their starting OT goes down have a swing they’re comfortable saying they’ll have minimal drop off? Pretty short list IMO. Bars is very possibly destined to be a future RG for us but in the meantime he showed enough there yesterday to at least get some run at OT in the preseason to see if he could be the guy who kicks out to OT as needed in 2020 and beyond too. If he’s capable or better there he could be the guy who replaces Massie in 2 years too. This would seemingly be the time to find out what he can and cannot do. 

What bothers me a bit is how Coward seems to have regressed a little so far.

I though he looked fairly impressive last preseason for a converted DL so what happened?

He's probably more of a project than we realized but in HH at least we have the right project manager.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

Assuming Coward were not available, can he really be worse than Clemmings or Lucas have been? At least Bars looked solid against the 2/3 string for the Colts. Clemmings and Lucas have been atrocious against the same guys. I’m not trying to suggest it’s ideal or should even be a Plan A that should stop us from scouring the market for other options - I’m merely suggesting that he’s not the worst option. Bars didn’t look out of place in the least yesterday. Not great, and certainly against reserves, but capable. When you’re talking about a depth player and especially a rookie one capable isn’t a terrible spot to be in. Capable is something we don’t have with Clemmings or Lucas, and may not have in Coward either. How many teams if one of their starting OT goes down have a swing they’re comfortable saying they’ll have minimal drop off? Pretty short list IMO. Bars is very possibly destined to be a future RG for us but in the meantime he showed enough there yesterday to at least get some run at OT in the preseason to see if he could be the guy who kicks out to OT as needed in 2020 and beyond too. If he’s capable or better there he could be the guy who replaces Massie in 2 years too. This would seemingly be the time to find out what he can and cannot do. 

I'd be fine with him getting an extended look at tackle next game. Honestly I hope he ends up being the tackle at some point then proving me wrong. Getting Coward as the RG kid the future and Bars as the RT of the future without even spending a pick would be  an amazing  feather in Pace's hat. He has a mean streak that I haven't really seen at right tackle since Long and Mills were there. I'm just saying coming back from that injury to a position he has little experience in makes me very nervous, especially after we have seen several horrible tackles in the beating our quarterbacks have taken. If he is the best for the spot then by all means put him in there. It is an option that absolutely should be looked at.

 

I just want the best option possible there, not just the best option we have at the moment. There is room for a good signing if one becomes available. I believe there will be a more proven commodity available even if we have to overpay a bit. Some veteran will likely be cut due to  there  play being  less than what their cap is costing and hopefully he will want to chase a ring. But if bars has the technique that allows him to overplay his athletic limitations then by all means don't look back.

[dll2000]

8 hours ago, soulman said:

Mark me down as another who feels the solution if Leno is injured will come from either Bars or Whitehair.

If Bars can't handle it you play him at LG where he's been backing Cody anyway and slide Whitehair out.

We have to protect that blindside and using those two even if it means a flip for Whitehair causes minimal disruption compared to other possibilities.  It's either that or pray a vet LT falls in our lap.....or a unicorn which is probably more likely than a competent LT.

Actually right now Bars is probably behind Larson at G and a presumably recovered Coward at RT (as bad as he has looked).  He is 2-3  players away from going in.

He got overpowered a bit by Jihad Ward who was best player /athlete he went against. 

But he looks like a good upside player.   Bottom line is any one of our OL go down , especially an OT, and we will have a significant drop off. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by dll2000

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, WindyCity said:

-Lets start with the most obvious and important result of last night. Eddie Piniero going 5/5 with a crushed 58 yarder was the single biggest thing to happen in that game and a star QB retired at halftime. I wanted Nagy to send him out again from 56, but I started to realize that this needed to be a launching pad for Piniero and a miss would have soured it. He looked like a guy who should be kicking week 1 for the Bears. It was also nice to see a high volume of kicks and not this splitting kicks that left each guy with 1 or 2 and a harder evaluation.

Agreed.

 

-I am not going to throw stones at Chase Daniel. He is playing in a high school offense with a horrendous abomination of an OL and he is out there just trying to survive.

Yes, but he was watching rush instead of looking downfield and clearly lacked athletic ability to avoid and make a play which is really concerning.

 

-I am also not sure how you keep Ryan Nall off the team. He continues to produce, he can play FB and TE in a pinch, and he looks good in short yardage and has some big play ability. I know Whyte is fast, but the Bears have the best kick returner in the league in Patterson and I think Nall will be better covering kicks, which was an issue for the Bears last season.

I like Nall and Whyte, but I think both are just redundant depth so I don't really care which is on 53 if either.  I think it comes down to do you need a cover player or a returner on special teams in a particular week.  

 

-I keep waiting for Bradley Sowell to show me something because I think he is making the team, but I continue to not be impressed with much of anything that he does.

Pretty useless right now, but they knew he would be a project and are desperate for an blocking Y.  It is what it is at this point.  

-Ian Bunting continues to catch the ball really well. I think he ends up on the PR to work on his blocking, but the guy has some seriously soft hands and made a beautiful adjustment to the ball on the Bray big gain.

He has potential.  

 

-Jesper Holstad, has my attention. Another very solid catcher of the football.

Sad for a lot of guys that can't get reps because our back up OTs and QBs have performed so poorly.  

 

-Cornelius Lucas is really bad.

See above.

 

-T.J Clemmings is not much better.

See above.

 

-Alex Bars is a keeper and had some nice moments at LT. I am going to rewatch and give more thorough impressions tomorrow.

I watched him.  I put my real time thoughts above.  His 2nd series at OT was his best.   Not sure if he goes right back to practicing guard or they start giving him practice reps at OT.

 

 

-Kylie Fitts is bad. I know he had a sack when the OT did not get out of his stance, but my god the rest of the time he is getting owned.

Cut him.  

 

-Isaiah Irving needs to start being more decisive in his pass rushes. He has a decent burst, but it is like he doesn't want to commit to one more or the other and sort of gets caught in the middle.

Average player at best.  

 

-James Vaughters probably needs to make the team. He is the only backup OLB that has shown any consistent pass rush. He gets off the ball hard and actually seems to have a plan for getting to the QB. He played special teams for the Stampeders in the CFL [8 tackles] which makes it seem like a natural fit as the 5 rusher.

Lacks physical gifts, but he is making plays that can't be ignored.  

 

-Adbullah Anderson might knock Bullard off the team. He brings a ton of energy and is actually an okay interior pass rusher. 

Not sure if Anderson makes it, probably PS, but Bullard is a cut in my mind.  He has been awful.  

 

-I am not sure what Bullard really does well. From time to time he makes a decent run stop and then goes invisible for the rest of the quarter. I do not see the quick first step and penetrating ability I was expecting.

Awful, like I just said.  

 

-I think Nick Williams will make the team again. He appears to be the best backup NT option and he has the power to play early downs.

It would be a travesty of justice if Nick Williams doesn't make it and Bullard does.  I would have to seriously question Pace and Nagy judgement on that one.  

 

-Kwit is a guy I want to cut, but then he makes a bunch of plays. I think we know he is not a long term starter or an impact guy, but he plays the run well, blitzs well, and can play special teams and call the defense.

I have been banging the drum to cut him, but nobody else is playing better so right now I want to keep him.  

 

-If the Bears keep Iggy because he is a draft pick and cut Josh Woods I think that would be idiotic. Woods looks like a LB and has the same speed and athletic ability as Iggy. Iggy has the instincts of a rock. He looks lost most of the time and outside of a super nice blitz I thought he as abused in the screen game.

I would like to be able to evaluate a Woods with a big bodied block eater in front of him more.   He clearly can't take on blocks (got pancaked on TD run), but he has coverage and movement skills you need.  

 

-Duke Shelley looks like a good pick.

I think he was a steal.   Kid is hungry and tenacious.  I thought he would take Skrine's spot, but he hasn't been good enough to make that claim.  

 

-Deon Bush has come alive, I would not be shocked if HHCD gets nicked up that Bush does not take his job.

I think Deon made a huge jump last year from scrub to player and has continued that this year.  

 

-Was hoping to see more out of Kevin Tolliver in the games. Not that he has been bad, but I was hoping he would look better than the backups like a 1.5 instead of a number 2.

I think he is has been battling an injury and is just now getting somewhat healthy.  Not 100% sure on that though.  

 

 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Actually right now Bars is probably behind Larson at G and a presumably recovered Coward at RT (as bad as he has looked).  He is 2-3  players away from going in.

He got overpowered a bit by Jihad Ward who was best player /athlete he went against. 

But he looks like a good upside player.   Bottom line is any one of our OL go down , especially an OT, and we will have a significant drop off. 

I'm just going off the depth chart which as him as the #2 LG.  Larsen is the #2 RG and #2 OC.  Coward is #2 RT and of late I would not want him as a starter at either OT spot.

In a pinch it may be more likely we'd kick Whitehair out to LT based on his having played LT for two years in college and provided he can handle it Bars plays LG or possibly Larsen if Bars fails.

But any extended injury to any OL is gonna leave us weakened all along the OL.  We simply don't have experienced depth.

[dll2000]

 

[soulman]

Could Alex Bars solve the Bears' growing tackle problem?

JJ Stankevitz,NBC Sports Chicago Sun, Aug 25 9:16 AM MDT

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/could-alex-bars-solve-bears-151618138.html

INDIANAPOLIS - Three years ago, Harry Hiestand needed Alex Bars to play tackle. The then-Notre Dame offensive line coach had a hole to fill after Ronnie Stanley left for the NFL, and with Mike McGlinchey locked in to one starting gig, Hiestand hoped his former four-star recruit could succeed as a right tackle. 

"I think for what we need for our team, he definitely needs to play tackle," Hiestand said at the time. "We need another guy that can play tackle so he's being pushed in that role right now. … But he's a very good guard, too. He's a very flexible guy."

The point of bringing up this quote from an old media availability at the Guglielmino Athletics Complex in South Bend is this: Hiestand, now the Bears' offensive line coach, needed Bars to play tackle Saturday night against the Indianapolis Colts

With four-year NFL veteran T.J. Clemmings carted to the locker room with a right leg injury late in the second quarter of Saturday's game at Lucas Oil Stadium, and with second-year tackle Rashaad Coward already out with an elbow injury, the Bears suddenly had a red-line need at tackle. Cornelius Lucas, a five-year veteran, was badly beat numerous times in the first half, which didn't feel like an anomaly based on his prior preseason performance. Bradley Sowell, the team's backup swing tackle for the last two seasons, was moved to tight end this spring, and shed plenty of weight to make that transition.  

So the Bears called on Bars, who last played tackle in 2016 with Notre Dame, to play left tackle for two quarters. The result was notably positive. 

"I thought he did a great job," Nagy said. "I was happy for him. You never know what you're going to get, but he does have experience playing at Notre Dame there at that position. You could see that come out, which was good."

Bars had already made a strong push to make the Bears' roster over the last month as a guard, the position he played at Notre Dame following that 2016 season before a torn ACL and MCL ended his 2018 season prematurely - and knocked him from being a mid-round draft prospect to undrafted free agent. Showing the Bears he can play tackle should only help his case to survive the cut.

Still, two quarters of playing tackle against mostly third-stringers won't necessarily lead the Bears to trust Bars in a similar spot when the games matter in the regular season. 

The good news for the Bears is starting left tackle Charles Leno Jr. has proven to be one of the team's most durable players over the last few years - he played every offensive snap in 2016 and 2017, and only didn't in 2018 because Nagy removed most of his team's starters during a relatively meaningless Week 17 game against the Minnesota Vikings. Right tackle Bobby Massie played all 16 games for the Bears in 2018, though he did miss a single game in both 2016 and 2017. 

But the Bears' depth behind Leno and Massie feels like a problem. Bars, at the least, offered a glimmer of hope Saturday night that he could be the solution to it. 

"When you got some of your linemen on the sideline coming up to you that aren't playing telling you man, he's really doing well," Nagy said, "you know he stands out."