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TheVillain112

TNF: Chiefs vs. Patriots (Opening Day!!!)

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110 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Patriots
      62
    • Chiefs
      48


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44 minutes ago, ztoa said:

@Revel, imagine a boxer faced Mike Tyson.

If the boxer was a middle weight boxer, Tyson would be the most formidable opponent. Tyson might knocked him out within 30 seconds, (the stats you talk about).

Now if the boxer was also a heavy weight boxer, between Tyson and Ali, who would be more formidable?

Aaron Rodgers is like Mike Tyson. When a boxer couldn't defend Tyson's right hook, he would have no chance. But if a boxer was strong enough and skillful enough that he can defend good, Tyson will have little chance to win.

The skills proved by your stats means little against good defense in playoff.

 

We don't need to venture into the realm of imagination, let along another sport, to talk football.

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7 hours ago, Revel8 said:

 

I completely agree that Brady makes his OLine look better than it actually is, but he still needs a better OLine to operate effectively than Rodgers does, which Belichick has provided on average.  Without it, he gets rattled and starts making more errant passes than normal.

You mean the line that can't hold 3 seconds?

Are you asking if Brady is GOD? No, he is not.

With Rodgers line, Brady could have won with WR from streets. because opponents have to drop 7 to 8 to cover, and Brady still gets rid of balls faster than Rodgers.

Quote

We don't need to venture into the realm of imagination, let along another sport, to talk football.

Exactly, like "Marino could have won 5 SB with Don Shula", like a your favorite QB can do anything because of superior stats.

Yes, Rodgers is better than Brady on "I will do what I love to do, regardless". You think that way is better, be my guest. Rodgers will never be able to play like Peyton and brady, because he is average at reading defense.

If a QB is good at reading defense, he should be able to make his 2nd and third WR better sometimes, you should see some changes of his plays. You are not saying that opponents put on same defensive scheme all the time, are you?

BTW, Pats offense is too complicated for Rodgers, OK? don't question why, because that sounds like you believe  all other coaches and QB are morons.

Edited by ztoa

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You just check what Brady did in 2002 and 2005, Without running games, with bad defense, with WR from streets, Brady's offense scored like 380 pts, OK?

Rodgers scored 368 in 2015    beause loss of Jordy Nelson, you put Rodgers in 2002 and 2005 Pats, he won't win even 7 games.

Understand who carried the team now? you want to imagine? imagine Rodgers  in 2015 without Jordy and without great O-line.

Your stats? when Brady played high flying offense, his offense scored lot more than Rodgers, OK?

Then he switched back to his old system in 2014, his offense consistently score 450, much better than Rodgers offense. OK?

Dont imagine excuses, that wil be like Rodgers doesn't want #1 or #2 seed.

Let me say it directly :

Quote

Rodgers doesn't force the balls out of pockets, unless the pass is safe, even when he has to score.

Plus his big WR Packers GM bought for him. Get a clue why he always had good QBR, even in lousy games?

Edited by ztoa

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44 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

Holy crap. 

...more impressive is that Brady didn't start that season, when Bledsoe went 0-2 (including the game he didn't finish). So in 17 seasons as a starter Brady has literally NEVER been 2 games under .500.

That's bonkers.

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According to some fans who "understand" football, Belichick was struck by lightening at 11:59 PM on sept, 23rd 2001, and came up with a miracle idea of how to run offense.

So he started communicating with Brady through 5th dimension or quantum particles (as he didn't talk to Brady on side line in general), and told brady what to do.

Don't understand how a fan,  even with 3rd degree educations, would believe such alien theory, for years.

What is even more unbelievable is that Belichick abandoned the system he created and switched to a new system in 2007 that struggled in playoff. 

Edited by ztoa

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Brady's been a better player than Rodgers the last two years. And they were like 1A and 1B the year before that when Rodgers won MVP. 

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6 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Brady's been a better player than Rodgers the last two years. And they were like 1A and 1B the year before that when Rodgers won MVP. 

If Brady was no doubt "better" last year, than Rodgers' edge in 2014 is just as large.

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4 hours ago, bucsfan333 said:

Holy crap. 

Very good chance of that happening this weekend. Brees and Saints are tough as hell at home.

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41 minutes ago, Jetzger said:

If Brady was no doubt "better" last year, than Rodgers' edge in 2014 is just as large.

Agreed. Rodgers was stellar for all of 2014 while Brady was off and on. Vice versa for last season.

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18 hours ago, childofpudding said:

Agreed. Rodgers was stellar for all of 2014 while Brady was off and on. Vice versa for last season.

Not according to folks in the QB ranking thread (NFL Comparisons). Yawn.

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3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Not according to folks in the QB ranking thread (NFL Comparisons). Yawn.

From what I saw, there was one guy in that thread arguing that Rodgers had a better year last year. It's OK. He probably has short-term memory regarding how Rodgers looked earlier in the season.

I have no problem with anyone projecting Rodgers over Brady for 2017. Rodgers finished hot last season and projecting him over Brady for this season is fine.

Edited by childofpudding

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On 9/14/2017 at 5:37 AM, ztoa said:

You mean the line that can't hold 3 seconds?

No.  I mean the good to great lines Brady has had most of his career.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 5:37 AM, ztoa said:

 

Are you asking if Brady is GOD? No, he is not.

I didn't ask anything.  In fact, what you're responding to wasn't even addressed to you.  What was addressed to you, you completely ignored.  Here it is again:

 

Response #1:

A good OLine isn't a requirement for Rodgers like it is for Brady.  When the pocket collapses, he escapes and creates time for his receivers to get open.  

You're severely underrating Rodgers, severely overrating Brady, or both.  Rodgers has historically outperformed Brady statistically in the playoffs.

Playoff Stat—–Rodgers—Brady
QB Rating———–99.4——–89.0
Completion %-—63.5%——62.7%
PPG———---——28.75———26.7
YPA—————---—7.5———–6.9
TD %————---—-6.0%——–4.8%
INT %———---——1.7%——–2.3%

Rodgers also runs for many more yards, first downs, and TDs as well.  In fact, Rodgers did this against better quality defenses on average too.

 


Brady's playoff defenses have never once given up 40 or more points.  Rodgers' playoff defenses have already done that 3 times, in half the number of games games.  Brady's average defense has been ranked 7.6th in the NFL.  Rodgers' average defense has been ranked 14.6th.  This is one reason why Brady's D has never once given up 40 in a playoff game, while it's happened to Rodgers 3 times already.

 

Here's a graph which demonstrates this defensive disparity between the 2 QBs.  All rectangles in green are top 10 scoring Ds.  All rectangles in white are not.

v2drogkacobz.png

 

 

Response #2:

Considering the fact that playoff offenses under Rodgers score over 2 points per game more than offenses under Brady, of course a Rodgers offense can score enough to win. 

The reason that the Packers lose more playoff games than the Patriots, despite scoring more points than the Patriots, is because they don't have near-constant top 10 scoring defenses like the Patriots do.

It has nothing to do with the quality of Rodgers' playoff play, which is quite stellar, and statistically better than Brady's.

 

Rodgers didn't have a lousey game vs the Falcons either.   He was the Packers' entire offense.  He had no running game, his offensive line got so injured that they had to put a DT in at Guard, and 3 of his top 4 WRs were so injured that they wouldn't have even been playing in the game if the Super Bowl was on the line. 

Yet Rodgers still put up 333 yards and 3 TDs.  In fact, Rodgers led his team in rushing too (again), which is something Brady isn't even capable of.  Rodgers had a good game, the Packers D on the other hand didn't, giving up 44 points.  You know, more points than Brady's playoff defenses have ever given up in his entire career.

In fact, if you go to ESPN's website regarding that game, the first video analysis you'll see is titled "Injuries finally caught up to the Packers".  Perhaps there's a reason for that.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 5:37 AM, ztoa said:

With Rodgers line, Brady could have won with WR from streets. because opponents have to drop 7 to 8 to cover, and Brady still gets rid of balls faster than Rodgers.

Rodgers has had a better line about twice in his entire career, largely due to injury.  I agree completely that Brady generally gets rid of the ball faster than Rodgers.  He has to.  He has no other choice.  On the other hand, Rodgers does have that choice...due to his mobility, speed, and pocket presence.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 5:37 AM, ztoa said:

Exactly, like "Marino could have won 5 SB with Don Shula", like a your favorite QB can do anything because of superior stats.

 

The only person talking about Marino, boxing, etc is you.  As demonstrated above, you ignored 2 full responses debunking your claims.

 

Quote

Yes, Rodgers is better than Brady on "I will do what I love to do, regardless". You think that way is better, be my guest. Rodgers will never be able to play like Peyton and brady, because he is average at reading defense.

The QB who pays attention to so much that he knows exactly when the opposing defense has 12 men on field is average at reading defense, right.  You're venturing into the realm of imagination again. 

In fact, it was only this year that Brady and the Patriots adopted Rodgers' strategy, which they fittingly named "Green Bay".

 

Quote

If a QB is good at reading defense, he should be able to make his 2nd and third WR better sometimes, you should see some changes of his plays. You are not saying that opponents put on same defensive scheme all the time, are you?

 

Rodgers makes all his WRs better.  As does Brady.  It's probably the most fundamental requirement of being a great QB.

And get out of here asking questions like that, lol.

 

Quote

BTW, Pats offense is too complicated for Rodgers, OK? don't question why, because that sounds like you believe  all other coaches and QB are morons.

Oh the irony.  It's all too complicated for Rodgers now is it?  He's too much of a moron, is he?  What did we say about imagination again?

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On 9/14/2017 at 7:20 AM, ChazStandard said:

...more impressive is that Brady didn't start that season, when Bledsoe went 0-2 (including the game he didn't finish). So in 17 seasons as a starter Brady has literally NEVER been 2 games under .500.

That's bonkers.

Ever since Belichick rebuilt the Patriots and started Brady they've gone 14-6 without him.  That's a .700 record without Brady.  That's bonkers.

It's been an extremely well-built, well-coached team. 

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15 of those were in 2008. Matt Cassell went 10-5. That leaves a total of five games. 4-1 is a nice record starting a backup, but hardly head turning.

J

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