Soggust Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: The Matt Cassel argument is a failed football IQ test. The team that Brady had went 18-1 Cassel with that same team lost 500% more games and won 44.5% less games. The team Matt Cassel had went 11-5. Brady with that same team went 10-6 (10-7 if we are including playoffs like you are with 18-1) the following year. 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: Brady's WAR over those 2 years was 7 per season. This makes him the greatest player in the history of human sports. WAR isn't a football stat right? So presumably you are just saying his win above replacement (Cassel) was 7 games? If so, just offhand - Elway went 15-2 in 1998. He was replaced by Griese in 1999 who went 4-9. And that's purely sticking to football and ignoring the most obvious issue that wins are a team statistic. Brady certainly has an argument for being the greatest football player of all time and in the discussion of all time sports greats. But "this" stat is not the reason. 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: This is true because Cassel was a real replacement level QB. Kizers, Painters, and 39 year old Kerry Collins types are far worse than replacement level. Lol stop. It was his first year starting since high school and he would go on to have, other than 2008 with the Pats, exactly one decent season in his entire career (where he was a game manager for the #1 rushing team in the NFL). 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: Brady had 50 TDs and a 117.2 rating. He led the league in EVERYTHING except low interception% (his 1.4 was 3rd behind 0.9 and 1.2) Cassel had 21 TDs (42% of Brady) and an 89.4 rating. He was 10th in TDs and rating. He had a lower TD% than Seneca Wallace, Tyler Thigpen and Shaun Hill. Brady's TD to INT was 9.5 to 1. Cassel's was 1.91 to 1. Agree, but remember you are comparing probably the GOAT QB's best season (and one of the best 3 seasons of all time) to a trash QB's first year as a starter. 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: The 2007 Patriots were a helmet catch from perfection. The 2008 Patriots did not make the playoffs. You are not clever when you are bringing up Matt Cassel. You are WORSHIPING BRADY when you bring up Cassel. The 2008 Patriots missed the playoffs with an 11-5 record. They were first in the AFC East with a 10-6 record the following year. The fact that they "did not make the playoffs" was incredibly contextual and ignoring that makes you look super biased. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look - Your overarching point that Tom Brady is OBVIOUSLY not a "product of the system" or whatever is absolutely true. He is probably the GOAT QB. I agree with your premise as a whole. I think Cassel's success was much more of a compliment to Belichick being the GOAT HC than a knock on Brady. But I feel like your argument here is way extreme and you are clearly cherry picking certain things while ignoring other obvious logic. Edited September 2, 2019 by Soggust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchFalcon Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 30-8-2019 at 8:15 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I must have confused myself. They play @CAR not @Miami. Yeah that's gonna be their ONE cold game, but I mean still one freaking game in cold weather for Ryan this year lol Oh boo hoo Matty Ice is a dome babby. Dude has outdueled "superior" QB's in the snow for half his career. He played at Boston College before he entered the NFL. The only true dome baby is Drew Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Wentz, Brees, Rodgers, Mahommes, Watson, Goff, Mayfield, or Rivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 13 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: Huge difference here. Montana, Brady and Rodgers are 3 of the best QB's to ever play the game and Wentz is not. They are so naturally gifted at the QB position that the offensive schemes built around them wouldn't make TOO much of a difference. You could throw them on every team and they would succeed. And Mahomes has Ried, yes, but he was not just a "good" QB either.....he broke records! A QB does not do what Mahomes did last year just because of coaching. Did Reid play a part in his development, absolutely. No doubt about it. Reid is QB guru and the best there is in the NFL. But to say a single coach is responsible for doing what Mahomes did would be ridiculous. And yes, I have been saying for years that Alex Smith's success had more due with Reid than Smith--just like almost everyone else did and for good reasons. Now if Wentz(or any other player) has the type of year that Mahommes had then I'll eat my words and put it all on Wentz. But if he wins MVP just because he has routine good year on a winning team in the same system that Nick freaking FOles had success in, then hell no. It's easy to throw the ball to wide open receivers. No they wouldn't. Brady, Rodgers and Montana have never proved they could succeed without their head coaches. Well Montana kinda did to a lower extent. But Brady and Rodgers have not. Their success is tied to their head coaches. Rodgers will have a chance this year. Brady, likely never will. The system is the head coaches. Until a QB can prove they can succeed without their head coach, in different circumstances, under chaos structurally they will always be connected to having less impact on their success. Brady wouldnt have 1/10 the success he has now with bad coaches and no one can prove otherwise. (I get the counter to that is i cant prove he wouldn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I also remember Wentz being the clear favorite before injury for MVP. Even going back and looking at some articles and odds, it looks like it was close (which honestly i dont remember being the case). I remember early on Alex, Brady and Wentz were the favorites and then Wentz pulling away. Then he got injured and Bradys play started dwindling and it almost felt like he won by default by season end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, DutchFalcon said: Oh boo hoo Matty Ice is a dome babby. Dude has outdueled "superior" QB's in the snow for half his career. He played at Boston College before he entered the NFL. The only true dome baby is Drew Brees. I'm sorry, but have you paid attention to Matt Ryan's stats indoors vs. outdoors? They're still pretty damn bad. And as for the Falcons in general, your W/L splits indoors vs. outdoors is much worse than the Saints are: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-falcons-only-play-3-outdoor-games-in-2019/ar-BBW4rKL Also, feel free to compare their indoor/outdoor splits: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/splits/ https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00/splits/ There's nothing wrong with saying Matt Ryan is a great indoors QB and it should increase his MVP chances. Not sure why you got all defensive about a simple fact that actually benefits your QB...it'd be like telling me the Ravens are going to face the 32nd-ranked Run Defenses in 13/16 games this year. I'd be freaking psyched about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolmesPriest Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I may be a bit biased, but I will go with Patrick Mahomes Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Soggust said: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look - Your overarching point that Tom Brady is OBVIOUSLY not a "product of the system" or whatever is absolutely true. He is probably the GOAT QB. I agree with your premise as a whole. I think Cassel's success was much more of a compliment to Belichick being the GOAT HC than a knock on Brady. But I feel like your argument here is way extreme and you are clearly cherry picking certain things while ignoring other obvious logic. My point is that anyone who is comparing NE 2007 to NE 2008 and thinks the results are close is a fool or has a lame agenda. They do it with glee as if they are really sticking it to that phony, Tom Brady! You would pay Brady 50 million a year after that year. You would let Cassel walk. Cassel had 3 years to prepare for that year 1 as a starter. He was a pro bowl QB in KC 2 years later. He was not a great QB he was replacement level. Any hatred of the Patriots and Brady does not change reality. This argument is in no way extreme. It is extreme to think that a 16-0 season which has only been done once kinda also resembles an 11-5 season. 5 games worse than 11-5 is 6-10. Are 6-10 seasons kinda like 11-5 seasons? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I'm sorry, but have you paid attention to Matt Ryan's stats indoors vs. outdoors? They're still pretty damn bad. Matt Ryan is a 91.6 rated passer outdoors. Peyton was a 94.0 rated passer outdoors. Brees is 91.2 Stafford is 86.6 Luck was 85.0 Warner was 84.4 Eli is 82.7 Moon was a 75.6 Joe Montana was also 91.6 rated outdoors Everyone on this list played better in domes / retro-roof buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, SkippyX said: My point is that anyone who is comparing NE 2007 to NE 2008 and thinks the results are close is a fool or has a lame agenda. They do it with glee as if they are really sticking it to that phony, Tom Brady! You would pay Brady 50 million a year after that year. You would let Cassel walk. Cassel had 3 years to prepare for that year 1 as a starter. He was a pro bowl QB in KC 2 years later. He was not a great QB he was replacement level. Any hatred of the Patriots and Brady does not change reality. This argument is in no way extreme. It is extreme to think that a 16-0 season which has only been done once kinda also resembles an 11-5 season. 5 games worse than 11-5 is 6-10. Are 6-10 seasons kinda like 11-5 seasons? But the guy you were quoting didn’t say anything about 2007 (which was obviously an outlier year and not the norm, even for Brady). His point was that NE won 10 (actually 11) games after Brady went down with a guy who hadn’t started a game since high school. Again, literally no one is saying that a 16-0 season is the same as an 11 win season. The argument is that an 11 win season with a trash QB is an example of why Belichick is the GOAT HC. Doesn’t mean Brady isn’t still the GOAT QB, but he has had help (as ALL GOATs have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Matt Ryan is a 91.6 rated passer outdoors. Peyton was a 94.0 rated passer outdoors. Brees is 91.2 Stafford is 86.6 Luck was 85.0 Warner was 84.4 Eli is 82.7 Moon was a 75.6 Joe Montana was also 91.6 rated outdoors Everyone on this list played better in domes / retro-roof buildings. yes, which is why I said that Matt Ryan playing in 13 dome games this year bodes well for his MVP chances but all Falcons fans heard was "MATT RYAN SUCKS OUTDOORS AND IS A TERRIBLE QB!" get over yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) Belichick was 41-57 as a head coach before Mo Lewis. Of course he is a GoaT (the man has led teams/Ds to 12 of the last 34 Super Bowls since taking over the Giants D.) Belichick is 19-19 as a head coach in New England without Tom Brady. He is 237-70 with Brady. Cherry picking 16 games in 2008 (which don't mean what you think they mean) or 2 games with Jimmy G is meaningless blather. Edited September 2, 2019 by SkippyX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: yes, which is why I said that Matt Ryan playing in 13 dome games this year bodes well for his MVP chances but all Falcons fans heard was "MATT RYAN SUCKS OUTDOORS AND IS A TERRIBLE QB!" get over yourselves. Its amazing when people get so bent out of shape when someone points a mirror up at reality. Pro Tip: You may also want to stop using phrases like pretty damn bad if you only have the noblest of intentions. Edited September 2, 2019 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 10:52 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Matt Ryan plays all but two games in a dome this year, and the two outdoors games are @Miami and @SF - both warm environments. He's got all the pieces aligned to win MVP this year. 21 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Its amazing when people get so bent out of shape when someone points a mirror up at reality. Pro Tip: You may also want to stop using phrases like pretty damn bad if you only have the noblest of intentions. Don't forget where all the salty Atlanta fans started their arguments from. You're right, "pretty damn bad" was an over-exaggeration, though. I've never seen people get so upset when someone says their QB might win MVP this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Don't forget where all the salty Atlanta fans started their arguments from. You're right, "pretty damn bad" was an over-exaggeration, though. I've never seen people get so upset when someone says their QB might win MVP this year. I am not a Falcons fan. (Eagles) I saw your premise and researched it. (I like sports research especially when I am in hurry up and wait mode for the season) Then I replied with my findings. I will admit to a level of snarkiness in highlighting your own words in my reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.