candyman93 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: My first clue that Dorsey was a dumbass is when he said he was gonna get “real football players” in here. It’s not like they were drafting workout warriors or trying to revolutionize anything. I ******* hated that quote. I’ve never heard a professional in the NFL at any level say something like that (obviously players talk). He’s just lucky we didn’t have guys like Nick already on the team. However, is Myles and Larry not football players? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I ******* hated that quote. I’ve never heard a professional in the NFL at any level say something like that (obviously players talk). He’s just lucky we didn’t have guys like Nick already on the team. However, is Myles and Larry not football players? Or Tretter, or Bitonio, or Kirksey, or Schobert.... Right or wrong, in this case wrong, just a dumb statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: To be fair, he SUCKED this year. He sucks in zone and sucks at tackling. His pursuit also sucks. That said, we took a great man/press man prospect and asked him to play zone and then make tackles on hitch/slants/out patterns. Greedy Williams sucked? He missed some crucial tackles, but he was far from "bad." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Greedy Williams sucked? He missed some crucial tackles, but he was far from "bad." 12 Games, 2 passes defended, 0 INT Subpar year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Greedy Williams sucked? He missed some crucial tackles, but he was far from "bad." Yeah, for a second-round rookie who missed some time AND was playing in a scheme that didn't suit his strengths, I'd say Greedy was pretty solid last year. He played well enough to make me think he has the potential to be a good starter for years to come. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, MWil23 said: 12 Games, 2 passes defended, 0 INT Subpar year. Judging CB’s off of stats is a slippery slope. You would have thought Asomugah and Revis were trash during their lockdown days. I’m not saying Greedy was lockdown, but ball production for a DB is dependent on the QB screwing up and making a poor decision. I never look at stats for DBs. Largely irrelevant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Judging CB’s off of stats is a slippery slope. You would have thought Asomugah and Revis were trash during their lockdown days. I’m not saying Greedy was lockdown, but ball production for a DB is dependent on the QB screwing up and making a poor decision. I never look at stats for DBs. Largely irrelevant. Yeah. If you're going to judge a CB based on stats, I'd say things like CMP%, yards per completion/target, etc. are a better metric. Even those aren't perfect, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Judging CB’s off of stats is a slippery slope. You would have thought Asomugah and Revis were trash during their lockdown days. I’m not saying Greedy was lockdown, but ball production for a DB is dependent on the QB screwing up and making a poor decision. I never look at stats for DBs. Largely irrelevant. I think stats can be helpful, provided they match they eyeball test. I thought Greedy was pretty mediocre, and the stats back that up. He didn’t tackle particularly well (was never his MO), didn’t create turnovers, blanket receivers, etc. He was just a dude out there. That said, the scheme didn’t play to his strengths, he dealt with injuries early and just turned 22. He’s still a baby and has plenty of time to improve. Edited January 29, 2020 by LETSGOBROWNIES 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Judging CB’s off of stats is a slippery slope. You would have thought Asomugah and Revis were trash during their lockdown days. I’m not saying Greedy was lockdown, but ball production for a DB is dependent on the QB screwing up and making a poor decision. I never look at stats for DBs. Largely irrelevant. To be fair, he was thrown at A LOT based upon scheme, which I'm assuming was a given presupposition of this, since we ran Cover 3/4 almost exclusively and have spoken ad nauseum about this...throw in almost 50 tackles, and that implies being thrown at A LOT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, MWil23 said: To be fair, he was thrown at A LOT based upon scheme, which I'm assuming was a given presupposition of this, since we ran Cover 3/4 almost exclusively and have spoken ad nauseum about this...throw in almost 50 tackles, and that implies being thrown at A LOT. The point is, he was better than most rookie CB's that are asked to start in a crap defensive scheme. He's going to be a stud for us in the hands of a good DC. I don't like that he missed so many tackles, but he should never be asked to be that kind of player. Scheme forced him to make several tackles. A lack of safety presence in the alleys forced our CB's to make tackles. Us playing with 2 linebackers 99% of the time forced our CB's to be real edge setters in the defense. Playing zone forces the ball underneath and made our CB's have to tackle in space. Wilkes was a horrendous coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 48 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: The point is, he was better than most rookie CB's that are asked to start in a crap defensive scheme. I think we are relatively on the same page here. What I'm saying is that he was AWFUL in the scheme that we had for him. I'm not blaming him for that. We took a 22 year old Pro Bowl rookie in Ward and put him in it and he was mediocre there too. It's absurd. 48 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: He's going to be a stud for us in the hands of a good DC. I'm not sure if he will ever be a "stud", but I think that he will be solid and do very well in man/press man. I don't see a willing tackler/physical presence there, so that's a weakness in his game that I believe will always be there. 48 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I don't like that he missed so many tackles, but he should never be asked to be that kind of player. 100% agree. 48 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Scheme forced him to make several tackles. A lack of safety presence in the alleys forced our CB's to make tackles. Us playing with 2 linebackers 99% of the time forced our CB's to be real edge setters in the defense. Playing zone forces the ball underneath and made our CB's have to tackle in space. 100% agree. 48 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Wilkes was a horrendous coach. Wilkes is low key my least favorite Browns coordinator/position coach since Maurice Carthon was our OC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I don't agree that he's not a willing tackler. He missed on some tackles, but I remember him laying a few good hits last year. It almost seemed like he was trying to dispel the idea that he's an unwilling tackler. But it's totally possible that I'm forgetting moments where he didn't put much of an effort to tackle, but that's been a common theme for our defense for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, DawgX said: I don't agree that he's not a willing tackler. He missed on some tackles, but I remember him laying a few good hits last year. It almost seemed like he was trying to dispel the idea that he's an unwilling tackler. But it's totally possible that I'm forgetting moments where he didn't put much of an effort to tackle, but that's been a common theme for our defense for years now. He didn’t seem unwilling per se, just not good at it. Not a huge deal imo if he’s a lock down corner. Deion didn’t get into the HOF by tackling dudes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 hours ago, MWil23 said: 12 Games, 2 passes defended, 0 INT Subpar year. Receivers had a very low completion percentage against him IIRC. Mostly because of pass interference probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, DawgX said: I don't agree that he's not a willing tackler. He missed on some tackles, but I remember him laying a few good hits last year. It almost seemed like he was trying to dispel the idea that he's an unwilling tackler. But it's totally possible that I'm forgetting moments where he didn't put much of an effort to tackle, but that's been a common theme for our defense for years now. All I can remember is his tackle on Conner in the game they won against the Steelers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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