College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

[malibuspeedrace]

Every successful coach also had to be a first time HC...

 

[BleedTheClock]

28 minutes ago, malibuspeedrace said:

Every successful coach also had to be a first time HC...

Yup. I don't DQ coaches until I see them in action.

However, I don't think this hire made a lot of logical sense. We are in win-now mode with the way our roster is constructed. I would have went with a safe bet, because a safe coach wins 10 games last year. It's scary to think we will have another wild card as our HC

[BleedTheClock]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/shaquille-quarterman/2s6P8BXW1J

[Mind Character]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Odd pass pro numbers for Wirfs considering he’s a guard who was playing tackle.

6 hours ago, MWil23 said:

What's interesting to me is what I've said all along, pure grades aside.

 

If we used that PFF charting to Draft a Tackle this is what the draft board should look like:

1.) Tristan Wirfs

2.) Andrew Thomas

3.) Josh Jones

4.) Jedrick Wills Jr.

5.) Mekhi Becton

---------

So, why don't we just use that chart as the end all be all for who's the best Tackle to select? It's clear in those numbers who the clear choice should be, isn't it? The run blocking analytics have Josh Jones even higher. So, the numbers must prove Josh Jones is better, right?

We should take Josh Jones at 10 over Wills and definitely over Mekhi Becton according to those numbers.

Expert scouts and personnel guys have access to that same data and even more parsed and refined analytic analysis, but by overwhelming consensus none would have Josh Jones over Jedrick Wills or Mekhi Becton and few would see Josh Jones and Andrew Thomas as close.

Are they just wrong? What factors are they looking at? Is there context missing in those numbers (i.e., Level of Competition, Plays that look like down-grades to a coder but actually aren't, Plays that look like up-grades to a coder but are actually should be down-graded plays, how the player looks while blocking, what the snap wins and what the losses look like, offensive scheme, etc)?

So, what does it all mean?

Ultimately, Numbers are a tool of understanding real life phenomenon.

Numbers/Analytics can lie, but the Tape doesn't.

Ultimately, all that matters is the context of play; the numbers in context as tool of understanding, but ultimately it's the traditional football scouting analysis that should inform the numbers/analytics and thus should have more weight in understanding what's real and what's not.

If you think those numbers are justification for why Wirfs is not a Guard prospect but all Tackle, then you're missing everything to begin with.

What's more interesting/odd to me is how every year someone pulls up a PFF grade chart as the gold standard that overrides traditional football scouting analysis instead of viewing such charting as being subject to more important contextual factors, as well as the data/event coders tape watching decisions.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Mind Character

[Horseunit]

38 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

If we used that PFF charting to Draft a Tackle this is what the draft board should look like:

1.) Tristan Wirfs

2.) Andrew Thomas

3.) Josh Jones

4.) Jedrick Wills Jr.

5.) Mekhi Becton

---------

So, why don't we just use that chart as the end all be all for who's the best Tackle to select? It's clear in those numbers who the clear choice should be, isn't it? The run blocking analytics have Josh Jones even higher. So, the numbers must prove Josh Jones is better, right?

We should take Josh Jones at 10 over Wills and definitely over Mekhi Becton according to those numbers.

Expert scouts and personnel guys have access to that same data and even more parsed and refined analytic analysis, but by overwhelming consensus none would have Josh Jones over Jedrick Wills or Mekhi Becton and few would see Josh Jones and Andrew Thomas as close.

Are they just wrong? What factors are they looking at? Is there context missing in those numbers (i.e., Level of Competition, Plays that look like down-grades to a coder but actually aren't, Plays that look like up-grades to a coder but are actually should be down-graded plays, how the player looks while blocking, what the snap wins and what the losses look like, offensive scheme, etc)?

So, what does it all mean?

Ultimately, Numbers are a tool of understanding real life phenomenon.

Numbers/Analytics can lie, but the Tape doesn't.

Ultimately, all that matters is the context of play; the numbers in context as tool of understanding, but ultimately it's the traditional football scouting analysis that should inform the numbers/analytics and thus should have more weight in understanding what's real and what's not.

If you think those numbers are justification for why Wirfs is not a Guard prospect but all Tackle, then you're missing everything to begin with.

What's more interesting/odd to me is how every year someone pulls up a PFF grade chart as the gold standard that overrides traditional football scouting analysis instead of viewing such charting as being subject to more important contextual factors, as well as the data/event coders tape watching decisions.

@Mind Character you are a wise man keep helpin' people see the light.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

41 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

If we used that PFF charting to Draft a Tackle this is what the draft board should look like:

1.) Tristan Wirfs

2.) Andrew Thomas

3.) Josh Jones

4.) Jedrick Wills Jr.

5.) Mekhi Becton

---------

So, why don't we just use that chart as the end all be all for who's the best Tackle to select? It's clear in those numbers who the clear choice should be, isn't it? The run blocking analytics have Josh Jones even higher. So, the numbers must prove Josh Jones is better, right?

We should take Josh Jones at 10 over Wills and definitely over Mekhi Becton according to those numbers.

Expert scouts and personnel guys have access to that same data and even more parsed and refined analytic analysis, but by overwhelming consensus none would have Josh Jones over Jedrick Wills or Mekhi Becton and few would see Josh Jones and Andrew Thomas as close.

Are they just wrong? What factors are they looking at? Is there context missing in those numbers (i.e., Level of Competition, Plays that look like down-grades to a coder but actually aren't, Plays that look like up-grades to a coder but are actually should be down-graded plays, how the player looks while blocking, what the snap wins and what the losses look like, offensive scheme, etc)?

So, what does it all mean?

Ultimately, Numbers are a tool of understanding real life phenomenon.

Numbers/Analytics can lie, but the Tape doesn't.

Ultimately, all that matters is the context of play; the numbers in context as tool of understanding, but ultimately it's the traditional football scouting analysis that should inform the numbers/analytics and thus should have more weight in understanding what's real and what's not.

If you think those numbers are justification for why Wirfs is not a Guard prospect but all Tackle, then you're missing everything to begin with.

What's more interesting/odd to me is how every year someone pulls up a PFF grade chart as the gold standard that overrides traditional football scouting analysis instead of viewing such charting as being subject to more important contextual factors, as well as the data/event coders tape watching decisions.

It’s simply too easy 😂 

[pnies20]

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/shaquille-quarterman/2s6P8BXW1J

I’ve always been a fan. He just needs to learn to cover.

[Horseunit]

@Mind Character is this your other identity? https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/04/05/cleveland-browns-must-draft-jedrick-wills-jr/

 

 

[Mind Character]

2 minutes ago, Horseunit said:

@Mind Character is this your other identity? https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/04/05/cleveland-browns-must-draft-jedrick-wills-jr/

Lol.

No, but we who wear the cloth and believers of "Wills is OT1 No Matter What" are many.

We are united by common cause and must spread the news as charlatanism and illusioned thought are a rising scourge tide sweeping away many in these internet nfl draftnik lands out to sea where they will be lost forever and never return to the sanity of solid draft prospect evaluation again.

 

[candyman93]

34 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Lol.

No, but we who wear the cloth and believers of "Wills is OT1 No Matter What" are many.

We are united by common cause and must spread the news as charlatanism and illusioned thought are a rising scourge tide sweeping away many in these internet nfl draftnik lands out to sea where they will be lost forever and never return to the sanity of solid draft prospect evaluation again.

 

.....

 

Is this your shortest post ever?
 

You’re slipping charlatan.

[sdrawkcab321]

I’ve been watching film. I’m not high on becton at all. I don’t see it with him. Maybe a project guy you draft in the 2nd and put him on the right side. But I’m not impressed. I’m also not that impressed with Thomas. He’s ok and would be a good starter but I don’t think he’s all pro level. None of these guys are that great. This class is deep at tackle but I don’t think there’s any elite talent there. 

[Horseunit]

Two names that interest me in drafting strictly from the fact that from all accounts I'm hearing they live, breathe, eat, and sleep football are Jerry Jeudy and Marlon Davidson.  

[candyman93]

The more I’ve thought about it, I don’t think we draft a WR. I like a lot of guys though.
 

The UDFA pool would be a great place to look for a guy who slips through.

[brownie man]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108489/article/daniel-jeremiah-2020-nfl-mock-draft-30-packers-pick-a-qb

 

Daniel Jeremiah Mock

Browns draft Isaiah Simmons 🤤 

[candyman93]

3 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

I’ve been watching film. I’m not high on becton at all. I don’t see it with him. Maybe a project guy you draft in the 2nd and put him on the right side. But I’m not impressed. I’m also not that impressed with Thomas. He’s ok and would be a good starter but I don’t think he’s all pro level. None of these guys are that great. This class is deep at tackle but I don’t think there’s any elite talent there. 

It’s why I want Trent Williams. I love Andrew Thomas though.

 

My dream scenario is trading for Trent and drafting Wirfs for RG. I think Wirfs is a HOF OG.

Edited April 8, 2020 by candyman93