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53 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

The 1st Question is the question of all questions, and it really changes things tremendously when it comes to how the rankings of Tackles look in my mind.

It also changes what our draft strategy should be as certain top prospects won't make the next level impact given the zone-blocking requirements imo.

Stefanski being hired and the pending zone-blocking scheme has caused a ton of fun and heated arguments between family and friends specifically about things that relate to the zone scheme.

I spent a lot of time this past weekend talking over with friends and family about the desired zone-blocking play traits and blocking instincts that are desirable in college football prospect, as well as how to project those traits to the pros.

I couldn't answer a lot of questions regarding what zone-blocking requires in terms of play traits, how to best identify zone-blocking acumen, and evaluations especially when it came to scheme fits, and I got destroyed in a few debates. I also got destroyed when talking about Tristan Wirfs so glowingly and got called out for particular game evaluations causing me to go back and watch things with a different lens.

I've since set out to try to base my assessments on firmer ground and evidence. I feel like I'm close to that point now.

As a result, my thoughts have completely changed on a lot of prospects when it comes to scheme fit considerations. And scheme-fit considerations for OLineman matter tremendously and more so than at most other positions.

------------------------------

The following are my Zone-Blocking OT and OG rankings (..Different from my general OT and OG rankings):

***Zone-Blocking Play Traits and Ability Offensive Tackle Rankings***:

The Perfect Fit Targets:

1.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama, 2.) Robert Hunt, RT Louisiana-Lafayette, 3.) Jack Driscoll, RT Auburn, 4.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

The Overall Zone Blocking Tackle Rankings:

1.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama

2.) Robert Hunt, RT Louisiana-Lafayette

3.) Jack Driscoll, RT Auburn

4.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

5.) Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

6.) Austin Jackson, LT USC

7.) Prince Tega-Wanogho, LT Auburn

8.) Mekhi Becton, OT Louisville

9.) Terrance Steele, RT Texas Tech

10.) Josh Jones, RT Houston

---------

***Zone-Blocking Play Traits and Ability Offensive Guard Rankings***::

The Perfect Fit Targets:

1.) Netane Muti, OG/OT/OC Fresno St., 2.) Solomon Kindley, OG Georgia, 3.) Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon, 4.) Tristan Wirfs, OG Iowa, 5.) Daishawn Dixon, OG San Diego State, 6.) John Simpson, OG Clemson

The Overall Zone Blocking Guard Rankings:

1.) Netane Muti, OG/OT/OC Fresno St.

2.) Solomon Kindley, OG Georgia

3.) Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon

4.) Tristan Wirfs, OG Iowa

5.) Daishawn Dixon, OG San Diego State

6.) John Simpson, OG Clemson

7.) Ben Bredeson, OG Michigan

8.) Gage Cervenka, RG Clemson

9.) Bryce Meeker, OG-Convert Iowa State

10.) Zack Johnson, OG North Dakota St.

-------------------------

So does this now set us up for the ol' trade-down? Many of your top guys will be there in the second and third rounds, maybe even fourth for some. If Wills is there at 10 would you be fine trading down if we got a future first from a rudderless team like the Raiders?

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28 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

The others would be so pi**ed if they read this.

fify

.. I took the shortcut route and thought 6.5 games could tell me the whole story ...

... smdh

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48 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

So does this now set us up for the ol' trade-down? Many of your top guys will be there in the second and third rounds, maybe even fourth for some. If Wills is there at 10 would you be fine trading down if we got a future first from a rudderless team like the Raiders?

See Below:

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

-------------------------

What the Browns Draft Strategy Should Be Now in order of priority and value maximization:

1.) Consider trading up for Jedrick Wills depending on the cost.

2.) If Jedrick Wills, Andrew Thomas, or Jeffrey Okudah are there at 10, select them with a smile.

3.)Trade down multiple times (3 times even) to the 20 to 32 range (maybe even out of the 1st depending on how the board falls--- I know that sounds insane but seriously) accrue multiple high draft pick assets present and future. Target Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina, Robert Hunt, RT Louisiana-Lafayette, Jack Driscoll, RT Auburn., Cole Kmet, TE Notre Dame, or one of the other Premier WRs. Only accept such trades if in totality they principally net additional 2nd round pick(s) in 2020 plus, other 2020 Draft Assets, a 1st round pick(s) in 2021, and a 2nd/3rd round pick(s) in 2021.

4.) If none of Wills, Thomas, or Okudah are on the board, trade down 3 to 7 spots and see if Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown, AJ Epenesa, or give a hard look to one of the Premier impact WRs. Only make the trade if the such a trade includes present and future draft capital. If so, select one of them and accept the trade.

 

Edited by Mind Character

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2 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Actually he is.

He played more CB than anything last year at Clemson. And he's not great vs the run. He's a cover and chase guy all day. Base SS and nickel LB.

I’ll bet you big money he doesn’t ever play S in the NFL. 

The dude is a linebacker. Call him a “nickel corner” if you want, but he is an outside linebacker. 

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5 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Actually he is.

He played more CB than anything last year at Clemson. And he's not great vs the run. He's a cover and chase guy all day. Base SS and nickel LB.

Which is it ? He’s going to start at corner safety or linebacker???

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3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I’ll bet you big money he doesn’t ever play S in the NFL. 

The dude is a linebacker. Call him a “nickel corner” if you want, but he is an outside linebacker. 

This.

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3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

See Below:

 

👇🏼

Wirfs is a zone blocking right tackle.

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2020 Browns Zone-Blocking, Value-Maximization Draft Strategy 1st Round & Beyond Mock if Wills, Thomas, & Okudah are off the Board:

1.) Bengals -- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington -- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

3.) Dolphins (Via Lions) -- Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama

4.) Giants -- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

5.) Lions (Via Dolphins) -- Jeffrey Okudah, CB Ohio State

6.) Chargers -- Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

7.) Panthers -- Jedrick Wills Jr, RT Alabama

8.) Cardinals -- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

9.) Jaguars --  Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) Jaguars (Via Browns) -- Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

11.) Jets -- Mekhi Becton, OT Lousiville

12.) Raiders -- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa 

13.) Colts -- Derrick Brown, NT Colts   

14.) Tampa Bay -- Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama

15.) Broncos -- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

16.) Atlanta -- Trevon Diggs, CB Alabama                                                                   

17.) Dallas -- Xavier Mckinney, FS/SS Alabama

18.) Dolphins (Via Steelers) -- Tristan Wirfs, OG/OT Iowa                                                                 

19.) Raiders (Via Bears) -- Ashtyn Davis, FS California

20.) Vikings (Via Browns; Via Jaguars) -- Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina

21.) Eagles -- Justin Jefferson, WR LSU

22.) Buffalo -- Jaylon Johnson, CB Utah

23.) New England -- Netane Muti, OG/OT/OC Fresno St.    

24.) New Orleans -- Laviska Shenault, WR Colordao

25.) Browns ( Via Vikings) -- Jalen Reagor, WR TCU (WR Selection Not Ideal; Tremendous Underutilzed Pro-Bowl Talent; Value is Just too Amazing to Pass On)

26.) Dolphins (Via Texans) -- Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

27.) Seattle -- Bryce Hall, CB Virginia

28.) Ravens -- Jordan Elliot, DT Missouri

29.) Titans -- Julian Okwara, DE/OLB Notre Dame 

30.) Packers -- Tee Higgins, WR Clemson                                                          

31.) Kansas City -- Yetur Gross-Matos, DE Penn State

32.)  49ers -- Jauan Jennings, WR Tennessee 

--------------------

Browns Trades Summary:

1.) Trade from 10th to 20th via Jaguars. Receive -- 2020: 2 Round Pick (42) & 4th Round Pick (116) & 2021: 2nd Round Pick & 4th Round Pick

2.) Trade from 20th to 25th via Vikings. Receive -- 2020: 4th Round Pick & 2021: 5th Round Pick

------------------

Browns Full Value-Maximization "My Guys" Draft:

1(25). Jalen Reagor, WR TCU

2(41). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Robert Hunt, ZB-OT Louisiana-Lafayette

2(42). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Jack Driscoll, ZB-RT Auburn

3. Antoine Winfield Jr., FS/SS Minnesota

3. Zach Baun, Hybrid-LB Wisconsin

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Ross Blacklock, DT TCU

4. Troy Dye, Hybrid-LB Oregon // Malik Harrison, Hybrid-LB Ohio State

6. Joe Reed, WR Virginia

7. Daishawn Dixon, OG San Diego St.

7. Josiah Deguara, TE San Diego State

Need Positions not able to be filled via draft due to value maximization (DE; OG) -- Those Position Groups aren't deep in the draft which points to the need to address those needs before the draft.

Edited by Mind Character

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1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

2020 Browns Zone-Blocking, Value-Maximization Draft Strategy 1st Round & Beyond Mock if Wills, Thomas, & Okudah are off the Board:

1.) Bengals -- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington -- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

3.) Dolphins (Via Lions) -- Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama

4.) Giants -- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

5.) Lions (Via Dolphins) -- Jeffrey Okudah, CB Ohio State

6.) Chargers -- Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

7.) Panthers -- Jedrick Wills Jr, RT Alabama

8.) Cardinals -- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

9.) Jaguars --  Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) Jaguars (Via Browns) -- Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

11.) Jets -- Mekhi Becton, OT Lousiville

12.) Raiders -- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa 

13.) Colts -- Derrick Brown, NT Colts   

14.) Tampa Bay -- Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama

15.) Broncos -- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

16.) Atlanta -- Trevon Diggs, CB Alabama                                                                   

17.) Dallas -- Xavier Mckinney, FS/SS Alabama

18.) Dolphins (Via Steelers) -- Tristan Wirfs, OG/OT Iowa                                                                 

19.) Raiders (Via Bears) -- Ashtyn Davis, FS California

20.) Vikings (Via Browns; Via Jaguars) -- Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina

21.) Eagles -- Justin Jefferson, WR LSU

22.) Buffalo -- Jaylon Johnson, CB Utah

23.) New England -- Netane Muti, OG/OT/OC Fresno St.    

24.) New Orleans -- Tee Higgins, WR Clemson

25.) Browns ( Via Vikings) -- Jalen Reagor, WR TCU (WR Selection Not Ideal; Tremendous Underutilzed Pro-Bowl Talent; Value is Just too Amazing to Pass On)

26.) Dolphins (Via Texans) -- Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

27.) Seattle -- Bryce Hall, CB Virginia

28.) Ravens -- Jordan Elliot, DT Missouri

29.) Titans -- Julian Okwara, DE/OLB Notre Dame 

30.) Packers -- Tee Higgins, WR Clemson                                                          

31.) Kansas City -- Laviska Shenault, WR Colordao

32.)  49ers -- Jauan Jennings, WR Tennessee 

--------------------

Browns Trades Summary:

1.) Trade from 10th to 20th via Jaguars. Receive -- 2020: 2 Round Pick (42) & 4th Round Pick (116) & 2021: 2nd Round Pick & 4th Round Pick

2.) Trade from 20th to 25th via Vikings. Receive -- 2020: 4th Round Pick & 2021: 5th Round Pick

------------------

Browns Full Value-Maximization "My Guys" Draft:

1(25). Jalen Reagor, WR TCU

2(41). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Robert Hunt, ZB-OT Louisiana-Lafayette

2(42). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Jack Driscoll, ZB-RT Auburn

3. Antoine Winfield Jr., FS/SS Minnesota

3. Zach Baun, Hybrid-LB Wisconsin

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Ross Blacklock, DT TCU

4. Troy Dye, Hybrid-LB Oregon // Malik Harrison, Hybrid-LB Ohio State

6. Joe Reed, WR Virginia

7. Daishawn Dixon, OG San Diego St.

7. Josiah Deguara, TE San Diego State

Need Positions not able to be filled via draft due to value maximization (DE; OG) -- Those Position Groups aren't deep in the draft which points to the need to address those needs before the draft.

Would put us taking a WR in round one as a 1% chance, for all the reasons you and others have listed, even though Raegor would be solid value there and should be a top deep threat, but wilder things have happened. The real question is, do you believe he is Tyreke Hill-talented? If he is prime Desean Jackson, that would still be disappointing ITO for who we already have at WR, the crazy-deep talent pool there, our needs on both lines--offensive being priority for all need positions--and also for the fact that we had pick 10 to start.

And you have your zone blocking list put together and all, but even if we run zone most of the time, is it really worth passing on both Wirf's and Bekton? Bekton is absolutely gigantic and moves well. You don't think he could work at right tackle in a ZBS? And you have him going a pick later. You don't think Wirfs would be any better than the guys you have in the second round?

It looks like we would be taking some big risks by waiting til the middle of the second round and having both of our guys there. What if another zone blocking team loves them and one or both are gone before our two picks in the second? Runs on offensive linemen are pretty common.

Overall the draft looks nice if this is how it went. It'd be nice to get that 2021 first rounder somehow but maybe won't happen this year.

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i think man crush is turning into Wills from Bama

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3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

2020 Browns Zone-Blocking, Value-Maximization Draft Strategy 1st Round & Beyond Mock if Wills, Thomas, & Okudah are off the Board:

1.) Bengals -- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington -- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

3.) Dolphins (Via Lions) -- Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama

4.) Giants -- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

5.) Lions (Via Dolphins) -- Jeffrey Okudah, CB Ohio State

6.) Chargers -- Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

7.) Panthers -- Jedrick Wills Jr, RT Alabama

8.) Cardinals -- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

9.) Jaguars --  Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) Jaguars (Via Browns) -- Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

11.) Jets -- Mekhi Becton, OT Lousiville

12.) Raiders -- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa 

13.) Colts -- Derrick Brown, NT Colts   

14.) Tampa Bay -- Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama

15.) Broncos -- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

16.) Atlanta -- Trevon Diggs, CB Alabama                                                                   

17.) Dallas -- Xavier Mckinney, FS/SS Alabama

18.) Dolphins (Via Steelers) -- Tristan Wirfs, OG/OT Iowa                                                                 

19.) Raiders (Via Bears) -- Ashtyn Davis, FS California

20.) Vikings (Via Browns; Via Jaguars) -- Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina

21.) Eagles -- Justin Jefferson, WR LSU

22.) Buffalo -- Jaylon Johnson, CB Utah

23.) New England -- Netane Muti, OG/OT/OC Fresno St.    

24.) New Orleans -- Tee Higgins, WR Clemson

25.) Browns ( Via Vikings) -- Jalen Reagor, WR TCU (WR Selection Not Ideal; Tremendous Underutilzed Pro-Bowl Talent; Value is Just too Amazing to Pass On)

26.) Dolphins (Via Texans) -- Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

27.) Seattle -- Bryce Hall, CB Virginia

28.) Ravens -- Jordan Elliot, DT Missouri

29.) Titans -- Julian Okwara, DE/OLB Notre Dame 

30.) Packers -- Tee Higgins, WR Clemson                                                          

31.) Kansas City -- Laviska Shenault, WR Colordao

32.)  49ers -- Jauan Jennings, WR Tennessee 

--------------------

Browns Trades Summary:

1.) Trade from 10th to 20th via Jaguars. Receive -- 2020: 2 Round Pick (42) & 4th Round Pick (116) & 2021: 2nd Round Pick & 4th Round Pick

2.) Trade from 20th to 25th via Vikings. Receive -- 2020: 4th Round Pick & 2021: 5th Round Pick

------------------

Browns Full Value-Maximization "My Guys" Draft:

1(25). Jalen Reagor, WR TCU

2(41). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Robert Hunt, ZB-OT Louisiana-Lafayette

2(42). (Trade Up in the 2nd if We Must to get him) Jack Driscoll, ZB-RT Auburn

3. Antoine Winfield Jr., FS/SS Minnesota

3. Zach Baun, Hybrid-LB Wisconsin

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

4. (Trade Up Some if We Must to get him) Ross Blacklock, DT TCU

4. Troy Dye, Hybrid-LB Oregon // Malik Harrison, Hybrid-LB Ohio State

6. Joe Reed, WR Virginia

7. Daishawn Dixon, OG San Diego St.

7. Josiah Deguara, TE San Diego State

Need Positions not able to be filled via draft due to value maximization (DE; OG) -- Those Position Groups aren't deep in the draft which points to the need to address those needs before the draft.

Man can we draft Tee Higgins too? If the Saints and Packers can draft him we can too ;)

I think if that WR is the #1 player on their board go for it. Though I wouldn’t be shocked if they made that move to get to 25 they wouldn’t make another one for someone who wants Fromm in the late first for the extra year deal.

If we traded back with the Vikings I think I’d try to maximize value for this year. I wouldn’t go after 4th and 5th round picks for next year.  This gives you flexibility with the picks this year to move around in the third. 
 

 

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- If Meckhi Becton comes in at a good looking 345, he is going to skyrocket after the combine 

- I really, really like Alohi Gilman, whenever I watched ND, he always made big instinctual plays and has loads of leadership 

- Like it or not (I love it) Javon Kinlaw will be an option at 10

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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Kinlaw getting a lot of love at the senior bowl.  Seems like the kind of kid you want on your team and easy to root for.

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