2019 Baltimore Ravens Roster Tracker

[Danand]

53 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Ask Chuck Clark about it. If not for Jefferson's injury, what would've been his fate with the team? Give him Tim William's personality/off field history- how long would he have lasted?

Chuck was a player the Coaches love. His skill set wasn't specialized like Tim's, he's pretty well rounded and certainly versatile. Plus he didn't have ZDS, Suggs, Judon, or Bowser in front of him- He had Tony F'n Jefferson starting in place of him. His situation and standing with the coaches/team was endlessly better than Tim's, and the obstacle in front of him(Jefferson) was legit trash. Yet he sat or saw limited time come game day. 

If people can wrap their head around Chuck Clark not finding the field, I'm sure grasping the Tim Williams situation shouldn't be too hard. It's unfortunate how it all worked out, but that's just how the NFL goes. There will be another "Tim Williams" situation for us in the future, same as every other club.

I mean right now people are speculating on whether or not Lamar accidentally filmed Marquise rolling a post Patriots game celebration blunt on IG live lol. There's always fun around the corner.

Chuck Clark played on every special team, he was used as a rotational player at a position where we rotate less than at outside linebacker as the SS typically play every snap on defense. When injuries happened last year he saw extended time starting two games. Chuck Clark as far as I know was never called out for not playing to his assignment. It has also been specified that he puts in extended time to watch film and other players come to him so they know what to do.

Tim Williams on the other hand was called out by coaches several times, he was called out for not playing to his assignment. He couldn't find playing time despite his abilities.

I would say, that if I have a player who doesn't do what he is supposed to in meetings, in the film room, in practice and in games he flashes but also tend to "make business decisions" and is a general headache, then how can all that not factor in?

Ofc he is held back behind veterans if the coaching staff feel they can't trust him.

[DreamKid]

32 minutes ago, Danand said:

Chuck Clark played on every special team, he was used as a rotational player at a position where we rotate less than at outside linebacker as the SS typically play every snap on defense. When injuries happened last year he saw extended time starting two games. Chuck Clark as far as I know was never called out for not playing to his assignment. It has also been specified that he puts in extended time to watch film and other players come to him so they know what to do.

Tim Williams on the other hand was called out by coaches several times, he was called out for not playing to his assignment. He couldn't find playing time despite his abilities.

I would say, that if I have a player who doesn't do what he is supposed to in meetings, in the film room, in practice and in games he flashes but also tend to "make business decisions" and is a general headache, then how can all that not factor in?

Ofc he is held back behind veterans if the coaching staff feel they can't trust him.

Exactly. Chuck Clark checked every positive you could think of and still didn't start over a terrible player. So why try and frame Tim Williams not starting or seeing a major role as some grand indictment of his overall talent? Which many have tried to do. Both players had roles of Harbaugh's choosing and neither designation was a cap or omnipotent ruling on their ability. Sometimes players don't find themselves in the role their talent dictates, it's that simple. Harbaugh not playing or limiting a players' snaps is never going to be = to a universal fact of them not being able to provide impact.

Again, I don't know why this topic is so controversial.

The only issue I've ever had is people denying or trying to change the reality of Tim Williams or other players in order to establish a more comfortable/pleasing narrative. Especially when they apply reasoning that isn't consistent when other players are brought up. 

Yes, Tim Williams can be a talented pass rusher- but still not force Harbaugh's hand in playing him.

Yes, Chuck Clark can be a far superior player to Tony Jefferson- but still not force Harbaugh's hand in playing him.

Yes, Harbaugh can commit personnel or strategic errors as we see them- and still be a great coach.

All you can do is hope similar situations work out better in the future. And in fact I think this year Harbaugh has shown a lot of growth in his approach to cultivating Rookies/Young Players. In the past I think he might've defaulted to guys like James Hurst and Chris Moore, but instead we're seeing guys like Bozeman and Boykin receive opportunities. He's even trying to let Ferguson eat(Unfortunately he's really struggling- but still).

[M.10.E]

Tim Williams f'ing sucks.

Edited November 6, 2019 by M.10.E

[DreamKid]

4 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Tim Williams f'ing sucks.

Wow....

[M.10.E]

2 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Wow....

Am I wrong? Where's your other buddy Correa at?

This coaching staff has no problems playing: Josh Bynes, LJ Fort, Averett, Canady, Jihad Ward, Ricard (DT), but they have it out 3rd round pick Tim Williams and whoever you else think.

Edited November 6, 2019 by M.10.E

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, M.10.E said:

Am I wrong?

Uh, yea. Unless pass rush wins against All-Pro Tackles don't rate for you. Honestly, I'm tired of hand holding on this issue. If you don't like Tim Williams fine, but don't pretend like there aren't fans that have actually monitored his pass rush snaps over the years. Thankfully, guys like Crawford will rip from the 22 occasionally and you get great informative videos like this. 

 

4 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Am I wrong? Where's your other buddy Correa at?

I'm guessing with the Titans. God knows what you're referencing though. What, me thinking KC was better at EDGE than ILB? lol. Yea that was real hot takey....

I put more effort into player/team scouting/research than is probably reasonable for a fan with legit 0 control over the team. I do it because I find it fun, and I can't accept being ignorant about a team I care so much about. Thus there's no avenue I don't explore in trying to analyze this team, from All-22 on down.

So sorry if my takes differ from what you want to be the case, but my process is never going to change. And I assure you my opinions are backed up with as much research as possible.

I also never know in these situations what people think my motivation would be for purposely deluding myself over what kind of player X is? What do I gain from that? lol. 

[DreamKid]

On the subject of polarizing players. Who would be down to take a flier on Reuben Foster? His Rookie deal is ending soon, and I don't see many teams taking a chance. Reuniting him with Marlon would be sick, and we could use another body at ILB. He can play Mike or Will, but would fit really nice in Peanut's current role. Who could be gone for bigger $$$ coming up.

 

[DreamKid]

Booo. That sucks, De'Lance was a great back pocket HB for us. Decent STer too. Wish him luck down there, he'll need it.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

We also signed DeAnthony Thomas today. I'm a big fan of pure speed guys being signed to be returners for us

[Danand]

I just don't get the infatuation with Tim Williams. In my opinion, this is one of those situations where people were so high on him as a draft prospect, that him failing has to be because of something outside of his control - for example coaching staffs who prefer veterans although Tim Williams is the better player.

Tim Williams had a few splash plays, one of them against Joe Thomas, but that was it. I can't see how his few plays is so much more important than everything else.

With regard to Reuben Foster, I think I have to pass. He has showed poor judgement too many times to be a reliable player for us. Ofc, there is a chance he has matured - but when he so far has shown to make the same bad decisions over and over again - mostly related to his on and off girlfriend, I have my doubts he will change much. Great great talent though if he can stay healthy

[berlin calling]

55 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We also signed DeAnthony Thomas today. I'm a big fan of pure speed guys being signed to be returners for us

i don't know with DAT he seems to have serious issues w/ ball security. 

 

[DreamKid]

7 hours ago, Danand said:

I just don't get the infatuation with Tim Williams. In my opinion, this is one of those situations where people were so high on him as a draft prospect, that him failing has to be because of something outside of his control - for example coaching staffs who prefer veterans although Tim Williams is the better player.

That's projecting weird intent onto a lot of people. Every popular figure in the Ravens analyst community has noted Tim Williams' natural rush ability and called for him to see more time. From Ken McKusick to Edgar. And the veteran stuff isn't a conversation limited to Tim Williams. Never has been. Tim is the only player where all this push back magic has to be activated lol. I could come in here and talk about how a gang of random players look good on tape or have more to offer and there would be no issue . 

7 hours ago, Danand said:

Tim Williams had a few splash plays, one of them against Joe Thomas, but that was it. I can't see how his few plays is so much more important than everything else.

That's just admitting you're unfamiliar with his work as a player. Whether it was beating HOFer Joe Thomas for his first ever pressure/QBH in '17, beating Pro Bowler Alejandro Villanueva for a Sack in '18, or beating All-Pro Mitchell Schwartz for a pressure/near Sack in '19. He has big name rush wins from every year, coupled with strong overall pressure rates. When he's been given the opportunity he creates. Even this year. Where it looked like he didn't have the same juice for whatever reason, he still put down multi pressure games and has been inches away from multiple Sacks. It's a no debate fact that he holds value as a rusher.

Look Dan, I think you're off on this one. That's all I can say. We rarely disagree on players, but clearly on this one we do. TBH, I don't even like being in the position of defending him. He isn't a Raven and I don't really like him as person. If not for depth purposes or Ferguson really struggling, I wouldn't have even cared that we cut him. And if people want to shade his ability that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's just going to be one that sticks out for people who have actually done the work.

8 hours ago, Danand said:

With regard to Reuben Foster, I think I have to pass. He has showed poor judgement too many times to be a reliable player for us. Ofc, there is a chance he has matured - but when he so far has shown to make the same bad decisions over and over again - mostly related to his on and off girlfriend, I have my doubts he will change much. Great great talent though if he can stay healthy

Yea the girlfriend situation is rough. I believe he's been cleared of wrong doing, but it's clear his judgement in staying with her is beyond awful. I know he's close with guys like Marlon and Averret, plus you have the Ozzie connection. We did roll the dice on Rolando McClain too, another troubled Bama LB. Seems like we'd be one of the few teams to consider him. 

He's a ferocious player with fire similar to that of our past LBs. If we're looking to put that Ravens edge back into the defense, he'd be a player to start with. Give him a 1 year prove it deal and see how it works out. I'm sure we'll resign guys like Bynes and McPhee too, in order to keep that LB room strong.

[Danand]

It sounds like a cliché, but it would be a very Ravens move to let Peanut go, harvest the comp pick, sign Reuben Foster and play him at will in Peanuts role (with bigger upside) and basically replenish our LB core with a cheaper option and no one would notice.

Don't think we will come to an agreement on Tim Williams. I recognize his playmaking ability - and based on that, I put my faith in the coaching staff, that there must be solid reasons they let him go. 

[DreamKid]

8 minutes ago, Danand said:

Don't think we will come to an agreement on Tim Williams. I recognize his playmaking ability - and based on that, I put my faith in the coaching staff, that there must be solid reasons they let him go.

Yup, fair enough.

8 minutes ago, Danand said:

It sounds like a cliché, but it would be a very Ravens move to let Peanut go, harvest the comp pick, sign Reuben Foster and play him at will in Peanuts role (with bigger upside) and basically replenish our LB core with a cheaper option and no one would notice.

Resign Josh Bynes to a bargain deal. He can manage the Mike spot on early downs. Let Chucky keep the green dot, he can slide down with Earl and Deshon on the back end. Reuben could step seamlessly into Peanut's role. It's literally perfect for him. He's a violent down hill player. Let him 'See ball, get ball'. And then you still have young back ups like Otaro Alaka(Who could be Bynes' long term replacement) and Chris Board who will continue to develop. And finally if they find a nice mid to late round(or undrafted ) off ball LB they like- pull the trigger. 

I do worry that infrequently resigning homegrown players could send the wrong message to the locker room. With Marlon and Ronnie due top of the market deals though, I think we'll make the message quite clear. 'Ball out, and you'll get $$$'. We should see extensions given out to guys like Clark & Ricard coming up too. 

[Danand]

It will be interesting to see how DeCosta's ambition to tie up homegrown players earlier will play out. He did sign Tavon Young and Nick Boyle early. The clear cut resigns imo are Stanley, Andrews, Zeus, Humphrey and ofc Lamar (all baring injuries). Those are the top contracts for the foreseeable future I think we should lock up before they reach free agency

I also like the idea we play Elliot deep. He has a seamless transition in his technique from backpeddling to cut up field to find the football.