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Pastor Dillon

2019 Depth Chart

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Howard has a chance to play this week. As I’ve said, I’d hold him out. He should be 100% post bye week. Not reason to risk an injury. 
 

looks like post bye week we will be back to around 100% 

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Something is clear up with Coutee, Hes been a healthy scratch for 2 weeks, active without playing, meanwhile guys like Steven Mitchell are out there ending drives. what in the world? Is he hurt and we have so many injuries we have to have a hurt guy active or is he in BOBs dog house?

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On 11/3/2019 at 4:02 PM, Pastor Dillon said:

Something is clear up with Coutee, Hes been a healthy scratch for 2 weeks, active without playing, meanwhile guys like Steven Mitchell are out there ending drives. what in the world? Is he hurt and we have so many injuries we have to have a hurt guy active or is he in BOBs dog house?

I think it's as simple as this. I don't know if it was the drop vs the Colts that led to the Leonard INT, or something before that - but Coutee is on the outs. I actually thought he'd be packaged up in some sort of trade.

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20 hours ago, ET80 said:

I think it's as simple as this. I don't know if it was the drop vs the Colts that led to the Leonard INT, or something before that - but Coutee is on the outs. I actually thought he'd be packaged up in some sort of trade.

So dumb. He’s way better than Mitchell and Carter. 

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22 minutes ago, jch1911 said:

 

Heard some really bad things about him - I get he's a former 1st, but he's been on a steady decline out in TB.

Maybe a change of scenery helps? Looks like it's working for Conley so far.

Roby/Conley/Johnson/Hargreaves is probably the most athletic CB room we've ever had; They might lack football IQ or instincts, but these guys can turn and burn with very fast guys if needed.

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56 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Heard some really bad things about him - I get he's a former 1st, but he's been on a steady decline out in TB.

Maybe a change of scenery helps? Looks like it's working for Conley so far.

Roby/Conley/Johnson/Hargreaves is probably the most athletic CB room we've ever had; They might lack football IQ or instincts, but these guys can turn and burn with very fast guys if needed.

 

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57 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Heard some really bad things about him - I get he's a former 1st, but he's been on a steady decline out in TB.

Maybe a change of scenery helps? Looks like it's working for Conley so far.

Roby/Conley/Johnson/Hargreaves is probably the most athletic CB room we've ever had; They might lack football IQ or instincts, but these guys can turn and burn with very fast guys if needed.

I was kinda thinking we should do this but never thought we would. I think Hargreaves problems have been lack of work ethic and he’s been in the dog house. I think a chance to win will help him a lot. 
 

honestly our CB position is the only thing holding us back from being a legit contender. 

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For what it’s worth Hargreaves has a 47.7 rating from pff

johnson has a 35.2

conley has a 59.9

Roby has a 67.1

Crossen has a 42.5

JJoe has a 61.8

so based on that Hargreaves is actually an upgrade for us at depth but comes in rated our 4th best. I suspect crossen doesn’t see anymore action on D and we run 5 deep at CB 

just for arguments sake 

Kareem Jackson 84.9

AJ bouye 69.4

Greedy Williams(who should be a Texan) 67.5

denzel Ward 66.8

 

in PFF ratings, if you can get your corners 65-75 then you have decent play. Above that is pretty elite. Below that is average or worse. 

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While I was on record loving the Conley trade, I'm not so high on the Hargreaves.  The rationale is similar in banking on the change of scenery and that the player was being used poorly in his system.  Hargreaves fits the Conley model as a man to man cover guy, being used in a zone system. The dude has obvious physical gifts, but like almost everyone in the Bucs laughable 2016 draft, he was badly overdrafted based on Florida homer hype (same draft they picked Aguayo). Like Conley, Hargreaves is a pretty piss poor tackler, but in Hargreaves case it seems to be a case of apathy.  Dude was a "playmaker" at Florida, but he seems to be cut out of the Brent Grimes / Asante Samuel mode where he's more concerned about getting on Sportscenter than operating within a scheme and making the run of the mill plays a defense needs.  The effort on the Isabella catch was pathetic and it seemed like he didn't want to be in his highlight reel so he just gave up.  Arians was right to cut him as unlike Samuel and Grimes, he doesn't make the plays to justify diva CB behavior. 

What concerns me most is that he's got that $9 million injury guarantee for next year. I hope we did plenty of due diligence as a guy who clearly takes plays off on the field to hurt his team seems capable of taking a season off to collect a paycheck.  Our secondary is a minefield where CBs are known to be lost 2 snaps into their seasons with us, better yet 2 months. The dude is always hurt and seemingly pretty soft so there has to be some concerns about getting right back into a Kevin Johnson situation.  I'm also concerned that while we clearly needed speedy man to man guys with Roby and Joseph hurt, in ditching BBC we seem to be swinging a bit far in the other direction as there is a need for zone, slot, and tackling abilities when you get down to #4 and #5 CBs.  Unlike Crossen, he doesn't play special teams and devoting 12 players to the secondary seems a bit extreme when we only have 6 d-linemen in a JJ Watt-less Dline. Sure, it's a pretty low risk move since we've got cap to burn, but there is a reason we're the only team that put a claim in on him and it's the risk of taking a 1st round cap hit on a player who hasn't seemed real interested in doing what it takes to be a professional football player.  Hopefully, he sees it for what it is, a chance to get a late season "prove it" opportunity to rehab his image before getting cut in the offseason, as he's not worth $9 million, but I just worry about adding an attitude/character component into a defense that is getting by on effort over talent right now.

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I guess the paradox I keep falling into to is trying to reconcile William O'Brien GM moves with the Clowney situation which requires assigning value to the Head Coach O'Brien butthurt calculus.  It's incomprehensible how Clowney holding out after not getting a long-term deal which is practically S.O.P. for a star looking at a $100m deal that doesn't want to get hurt in offseason or preseason activities warranted shipping him off for table scraps, a 3rd rounder, and a $7 million parachute, while a guy like Hargreaves is brought in after clear evidence he is mailing it in during another wasted season with the Bucs and a $9 million parachute if he gets hurt.  The worst that can be said about Clowney is that he might not have Watt's motor or closing ability, but unlike Watt, he's been on the field most of the past 4 seasons and unlike Hargreaves, Conley, or Mingo, actually played like a 1st round star and pro bowler even if the production with the hugely overrated sack stat wasn't elite.  At worst, Clowney holds out the season, get's tagged again within the window where teams can sign him long-term and we get reasonable 1st and 2nd round return on him.   More likely, he suits up after a bit of a slow start and impacts a few games until Watt gets hurt and takes over his spot with Mercilus excelling in his. You will never convince me that this wasn't about not wanting Clowney in KC who would give us reasonable draft pick comp during the window where they could sign him, then miscalculating leverage with Clowney not wanting to go to Miami or Washington (which he was absolutely right to refuse) and the BO'b not wanting to go thru another Duane Brown type standoff/distraction that we'd likely lose anyway (Gruden would have gotten what he could for Trent Williams if he had the power to save his butt and Marrone knew he had to risk ditching Ramsey or lose his locker room after another sideline meltdown against us).

So there we get to the paradox.  Would I have traded a final year of Clowney for two 1st round corners on rookie deals and two depth OLBs.  YEP!  Would I rather have Tunsil than Clowney long-term. YEP!  Do I miss Rankin, Davenport, Bademosi, or Kalil. Nope!  Would I rather have Tunsil, Duke, Hyde, and Stills on this roster than trying to find and develop a franchise LT, dual threat run game, and passing threat outside Nuk in the first 3 rounds NEXT year while potentially sacrificing this season and our future with Watson permanently due to injury.   HELL YES!  (not having that 1st rounder in 2021 might hurt a bit, but only if we fail to lock up our assets long-term or use our cap windfall to help make that the 32nd overall pick.) Adding the conditional 3rd instead of straight up 4th with Duke was probably a rookie GM mistake since he's so durable, but I'll view Warring as our 3rd next year after getting Fells for nothing and we did get a 4th thrown in on the Tunsil/Stills deal which will only be a few picks after the 3rd we gave up. I don't necessarily like that O'Brien had the power to sellout our future to make a run this season, but if we're able to take down the Ravens this week and not play down to the Colts or Titans you can't argue that we aren't well positioned to at least have even odds with the ascending Ravens/Chiefs and descending Pats/Steelers the next few seasons.  I still think we are a horribly run franchise that was saved by a divine accident in drafting Deshaun Watson and tried our best to even screw that up with Grigson level malpractice on the o-line and secondary, but the AFC is blessed with laughable dysfunction beyond the 3 or 4 of us that are somewhat stable at the top (for God's sake, Buffalo and Oakland are staring at playoff births in this wasteland).

William O'Brien the GM would have had know idea that's where it would go, but that's where we stand.  I think Conley has a great shot of sticking around long-term and Martin still has some upside to be mined. Mingo is a waste of space and Hargreaves might be, but given how Roby and Conley have responded and restored their reputations, Hargreaves has only himself to blame if he doesn't seize the opportunity.  We can't turn back time and get Watt or Clowney back, and the reality is that our pass rush is going to be a problem.  However, we could have buried our heads in the sand like Quinn has in Atlanta and gotten torched, or we could try to turn the secondary into a strength with easily the most physically talented and most scheme appropriate group we've ever had and it ain't close.  I still don't think we're advancing farther than a round in the playoffs without a pass rush, but I didn't see us even making it without an o-line, run game, or secondary either and we've largely fixed all 3 on the fly.  The Clowney situation is a sunk cost that like the Duane Brown situation will never make rationale sense, but the reality is that we aren't the only team with "human" situations like this that have to be dealt with (see the Steelers with Bell/Brown, Jags w/Ramsey and even Pats with Gronk/Gordon/Edelman/Bennett Brothers).   

Edited by Apollo Stallion

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23 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Dylan Cole torn ACL

This is a significant loss. He looked good at ILB, but he was probably our best ST body. 

Given the precarious depth we have at CB, the slack needs to be picked up by Peter Kalambayi or Barkevious Mingo - at least until Bradley Roby is back and we can put someone like Keion Crossen as a full time ST body.

I'm also at a point to where I think Cole might be off my list of guys I can rely on - he can't stay healthy. Incredibly talented, but dude is made of glass. I know @Apollo Stallion likes to ring this bell, but his body composition (muscles on top of muscles, looks more like HHH than Brian Urlacher) given his history of soft tissue and "bone density" type injuries... Is it possible he took S/C coach Brian Cushing's advice in more than one way?

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Looking ahead, we have to resign Roby, Mercilius and Reader this off season but we have 77 million in space. we need to give Tunsil his big deal now. One more off season until Watson gets paid. 

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