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Whitehair officially gets extension


beardown3231

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34 minutes ago, soulman said:

And what we've gone through as well until more recently.

On the whole there are not a whole lot of NFL ready OL coming out of college.  I feel we got very lucky with both Whitehair and Daniels.

The Bears are one of I think 6-7 teams in the NFL that will be starting the same 5 guys from last season.

Continuity is huge.

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16 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

The Bears are one of I think 6-7 teams in the NFL that will be starting the same 5 guys from last season.

Continuity is huge.

Yep and I give Pace huge plaudits for that by recognizing cohesion can overcome a lot.  Just by playing together both Leno and Massie have improved a lot from where they were two years ago and Pace wrapped both up early just as he's now done with Whitehair.

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5 hours ago, soulman said:

OK, so your opinion is different than my opinion.  Eventually we'll know who was more correct.

But lemme ask you this.  He's paying an OG $10.5 mil per year with $27 mil gtd.  What makes you think he wouldn't pay an Edge Rusher $15 mil?

Idk. Until Floyd shows he can really be reliable off the edge and actually stay healthy he is just an off ball LB with durability concerns, he's terrible as a true EDGE. He is talented in that role though, and if DT isn't in the long term plans I'd have no problems seeing him kick inside to add a better EDGE rusher opposite of Mack. 

 

But if I'd be paying any off ball LB that kind of money it's going to be Roquan. He's the guy who looks like the elite talent. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Idk. Until Floyd shows he can really be reliable off the edge and actually stay healthy he is just an off ball LB with durability concerns, he's terrible as a true EDGE. He is talented in that role though, and if DT isn't in the long term plans I'd have no problems seeing him kick inside to add a better EDGE rusher opposite of Mack. 

 

But if I'd be paying any off ball LB that kind of money it's going to be Roquan. He's the guy who looks like the elite talent. 

 

 

That $15 mil was based on beardown's estimate of his cost IF he exploded as an Edge Rusher in 2019.

Personally I don't think that will happen.  I can see better numbers but not mid teen kinda stuff even if Pagano does make a full time rusher out of him.

I see him more continuing as role player with incredible enough speed and athleticism to cause disruption and create pressure along with some sacks.

I also don't see him costing us $15 mil per year but I'll hold on any other thoughts I might have on that 'til it's for certain we're negotiating with him.

What I don't see happening right now is a trade.

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

That $15 mil was based on beardown's estimate of his cost IF he exploded as an Edge Rusher in 2019.

Personally I don't think that will happen.  I can see better numbers but not mid teen kinda stuff even if Pagano does make a full time rusher out of him.

I see him more continuing as role player with incredible enough speed and athleticism to cause disruption and create pressure along with some sacks.

I also don't see him costing us $15 mil per year but I'll hold on any other thoughts I might have on that 'til it's for certain we're negotiating with him.

What I don't see happening right now is a trade.

Ah, I missed that post.

 

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I don't believe a trade would happen either, but I also doubted Pace would swing the Mack trade too. If he does something it won't surprise me too much. Part of me thinks he won't just because of the trade up to get Floyd. Admitting you're wrong would be hard, especially when he showed last year he can still be a damn good player in a different role. Fangio will probably love hiving the athleticism and speed he offers. I mean think of this, out of the Bears' four starting LBs, Trevathan is actually the slowest.

 

That's freaking crazy.

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6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I don't believe a trade would happen either, but I also doubted Pace would swing the Mack trade too. If he does something it won't surprise me too much. Part of me thinks he won't just because of the trade up to get Floyd. Admitting you're wrong would be hard, especially when he showed last year he can still be a damn good player in a different role. Fangio will probably love hiving the athleticism and speed he offers. I mean think of this, out of the Bears' four starting LBs, Trevathan is actually the slowest.

 

That's freaking crazy.

Because we will have other younger players to extend it's entirely possible Trevathan and a few others will have to go or be content with much lower paychecks.  Positions like OLB and FS will out rank ILB in this defense especially now that we have Smith as one of them.

Guys like Iggy and Woods certainly have as much speed and athletic ability as Trevathan has but lack the experience and possibly his instincts.  They could get better or we may find other players who are even better we just don't know who right now is all.

I agree that it's likely Pace would have at least some emotional attachment to Floyd and if Floyd succeeds at an even higher level IMHO that would only make his attachment even stronger.  Even though Floyd has endured injuries and has missed many games so far we've also discovered that it hasn't been easy to replace him.  He's an athletic "freak" who can do a lot in anyone's defense as Fangio learned.

On top of all that simply because Floyd is not a dominant edge rusher, or at least hasn't been so far, IMHO that will diminish his trade value so believing we'd get a nice haul for him if we traded him may be far more imaginary than real.  Much like Mack he was a top ten pick and just as Oakland learned with Mack we're not gonna get anywhere near that much in value to replace him.

I will never say never but as it stands I see a much greater probability that Pace will look to extend Floyd to get out from under his $13.2 mil 5th year option salary than I do any possibility that he won't be extended or that he'll be traded.  But again, we have to see how well he performs in 2019 before we can say anything for certain.  All else is just personal opinion and speculation.

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11 hours ago, soulman said:

Because we will have other younger players to extend it's entirely possible Trevathan and a few others will have to go or be content with much lower paychecks.  Positions like OLB and FS will out rank ILB in this defense especially now that we have Smith as one of them.

Guys like Iggy and Woods certainly have as much speed and athletic ability as Trevathan has but lack the experience and possibly his instincts.  They could get better or we may find other players who are even better we just don't know who right now is all.

I agree that it's likely Pace would have at least some emotional attachment to Floyd and if Floyd succeeds at an even higher level IMHO that would only make his attachment even stronger.  Even though Floyd has endured injuries and has missed many games so far we've also discovered that it hasn't been easy to replace him.  He's an athletic "freak" who can do a lot in anyone's defense as Fangio learned.

On top of all that simply because Floyd is not a dominant edge rusher, or at least hasn't been so far, IMHO that will diminish his trade value so believing we'd get a nice haul for him if we traded him may be far more imaginary than real.  Much like Mack he was a top ten pick and just as Oakland learned with Mack we're not gonna get anywhere near that much in value to replace him.

I will never say never but as it stands I see a much greater probability that Pace will look to extend Floyd to get out from under his $13.2 mil 5th year option salary than I do any possibility that he won't be extended or that he'll be traded.  But again, we have to see how well he performs in 2019 before we can say anything for certain.  All else is just personal opinion and speculation.

It’s a cost benefit analysis for after the season to be sure, but if you can reasonably replace Floyd’s production with a draft pick or even 2 draft picks in 2020 then trading his $13M could allow you to potentially address the rest of the potential future roster holes in some way without compromising your ability to extend Jackson or Mitch, both of whom will be higher than Floyd on the priority list.  The long term viability of the core as a whole is more important than any one player, especially when that player is your 2nd best player at his position and not an elite player.

Nobody wants to move Floyd after 2019 but it may be what’s best for the team. Floyd could blow up this year and be a key cog in us winning a Super Bowl, and then moving him at peak value next offseason could be key in us winning a 2nd one. 

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21 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

The long term viability of the core as a whole is more important than any one player, especially when that player is your 2nd best player at his position and not an elite player.

Nobody wants to move Floyd after 2019 but it may be what’s best for the team. Floyd could blow up this year and be a key cog in us winning a Super Bowl, and then moving him at peak value next offseason could be key in us winning a 2nd one. 

Agreed on both counts but right now it's just a whole lot of speculation I'm not willing to make or even seriously consider.  We just aren't "there" yet as far as Floyd is concerned.

But, this year may write his story so that by next March we will have a much better idea of where he stands.

If Pace plans to shop him that will begin to happen in earnest around the time of the Combine where he can get feelers for his trade value just as he did with Howard.  You can bet the media will also jump on any rumor about a trade so there will be talk in the wind.

We can talk all we want about his "peak value" but we honestly have no idea what that is in draft pick or player booty.  It could be far less than we imagine if only because anyone who trades for him will have to negotiate a new deal as well.

And on the flip side, if he does explode with 15 sacks, 10 TFL, a couple of picks and fumbles caused and a mountain of pressure why would we trade him vs cutting a new deal.  The though that he may bring "peak value" is somewhat based on this.  So if someone else is willing to give up top value for him why wouldn't we want to keep him?

Let's just see what reality brings.

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

And on the flip side, if he does explode with 15 sacks, 10 TFL, a couple of picks and fumbles caused and a mountain of pressure why would we trade him vs cutting a new deal.  The though that he may bring "peak value" is somewhat based on this.  So if someone else is willing to give up top value for him why wouldn't we want to keep him?

Let's just see what reality brings.

Agree on the last part. As to the former, if he goes off like that there’s almost zero chance we can afford to keep him at the top edge rusher market rate (~$20M AAV) with Mack also getting $26M against the cap the next few years and a presumptive Mitch extension unless a new labor agreement is reached and the cap goes up 10-15%. Again, nobody wants to move him. For every mega contract you have you have to have that many more key contributors on reasonable deals, and we’ll already have Mack and probably Mitch by then on HUGE deals. To me, moving Floyd and replacing him with draft picks is essentially a wash financially with making Jackson the league’s highest paid safety next offseason and that makes a ton of sense just from an financial standpoint. It’s not the only option, but I think it may be the most realistic one. Time will tell. 

Let’s table it for now though because it’s all hypotheticals anyway. It’s week 1 and Packer week for God’s sake! 

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