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soulman

Ryan Pace optimistic about Bears' salary cap space

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30 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

My fear is the extend him based on how they feel and not what we are seeing on the field.

They love the kid. They love his leadership, make up, skills, but you have to pay his production and those 2 things may not line up.

Well then you don't.

To be honest I'm far more about his W/L record, his ability to win in the 4th Q as he almost did against Philly, and playoff success than I am about his stat sheet.  Winning big is what we should be paying for or otherwise we end up no better off than we did under Rex or Cutler and a good team stalls out.

If you take a really good look at some of Cutler's numbers vs Elway's and Favre's as far as TD %, Int %, Completion %, etc. they aren't all that different but those guys won Super Bowls and Cutler didn't.  Other QBs have had better stats than Brady but he has the rings, five or 'em.  That's what we need to pay for IMHO.

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1 minute ago, soulman said:

Well then you don't.

To be honest I'm far more about his W/L record, his ability to win in the 4th Q as he almost did against Philly, and playoff success than I am about his stat sheet.  Winning big is what we should be paying for or otherwise we end up no better off than we did under Rex or Cutler and a good team stalls out.

If you take a really good look at some of Cutler's numbers vs Elway's and Favre's as far as TD %, Int %, Completion %, etc. they aren't all that different but those guys won Super Bowls and Cutler didn't.  Other QBs have had better stats than Brady but he has the rings, five or 'em.  That's what we need to pay for IMHO.

Statistically Cutler was about even with Elway. I saw some stats the other day. It was crazy

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5 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Statistically Cutler was about even with Elway. I saw some stats the other day. It was crazy

Yeah, he was and under Shanahan in Denver had Shanny not been fired Jay's career may have been much different since Shanny saw in him his next Elway whereas he was never allowed to be that in Chicago nor given the tools to be that either.

So ol' Horse Face become a HOF'er and for most of his career Jay was the butt of many jokes.  But I will tell you this.  As decent human beings go Elway isn't even on the same planet as Cutler.  Jay got a bad rap from the Denver media day one only because he was called the next Elway and at that time people still prayed to St. John of the Comeback every Sunday.  Now many know better.

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54 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I do not think anyone is arguing he is a top QB or a flawless QB.

 

The argument is whether he is worth keeping and he is. You chances of replacing him with a better player are pretty small.

In this sub-forum, no. In others, he absolutely is being touted as one.

 

I'm not saying they should replace him, but simply that he is overrated ATM.

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2 hours ago, soulman said:

Yeah, he was and under Shanahan in Denver had Shanny not been fired Jay's career may have been much different since Shanny saw in him his next Elway whereas he was never allowed to be that in Chicago nor given the tools to be that either.

So ol' Horse Face become a HOF'er and for most of his career Jay was the butt of many jokes.  But I will tell you this.  As decent human beings go Elway isn't even on the same planet as Cutler.  Jay got a bad rap from the Denver media day one only because he was called the next Elway and at that time people still prayed to St. John of the Comeback every Sunday.  Now many know better.

His second season as a starter he produced a ton of yards and put up a significant amount of points, but like with the first year with Trestman there was a dumpster-fire defense they had to compensate for. If they had left Shanahan and just invested in their defense, getting a real RB in there as their situation was a mess, while locking down some of their stud players DEN may have had another Super Bowl and been in the running for the next several years. He literally carried that offense. They handed the keys to a very young, arrogant, immature McDaniels and he set the franchise back years. Not that I minded lol.

 

John Elway is a jackass, but his son Jack is worse from what I have read. Another guy guilty of DV and pulling a woman's hair. He may be Elway's biggest failure.

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

John Elway is a jackass,

LOL.....that would be one way of putting it.  I can think of a few more.  xD

His hero status is beginning to collapse around him as now he struggles to find a QB to lead the offense when he has a winning defense.

We take heat from the media for drafting Trubisky yet he drafts Paxton Lynch and "crickets"? 9_9

This is just one reason why most of what the NFL media writes or says on air goes in one ear and out the other with me.

Most dislike the Bears intensely but wait.  If they piece together another team like the '85 Bears then watch how many jump on their bandwagon claiming they knew they were that good all along and history repeats itself.  Screw 'em.

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

We take heat from the media for drafting Trubisky yet he drafts Paxton Lynch and "crickets"? 9_9

 

Of course. Elway didn't get swindled by the 49ers, Pace did. lol

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18 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Of course. Elway didn't get swindled by the 49ers, Pace did. lol

LOLOL....yeah we took a real hosin' on that one eh?

Solomon who? 

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Given all the new players the Packers have on defense, I could see Nagy and Helfrich dialing up a lot of pre-snap motion and odd personnel packages to try to cause communication issues.

I'm guessing the Bears rely heavily on trips/bunch looks with Patterson and Gabriel getting a lot of snaps.

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Cmon now. You guys are getting way out of hand with the Cutler/Elway comparisons. Put the glasses down fellas. Elway was twice the QB Cutler was. Elway was a top 3-5 QB in his time and Cutler was a below average starter for the majority of his career. 

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5 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Cmon now. You guys are getting way out of hand with the Cutler/Elway comparisons. Put the glasses down fellas. Elway was twice the QB Cutler was. Elway was a top 3-5 QB in his time and Cutler was a below average starter for the majority of his career. 

Based on their records and ultimate success yes but based on key stats and measurables they're actually very similar.

Shanahan saw Cutler as another potential Elway when he drafted him but was fired before that plan ever came to pass.

Face it, Elway could also be very undisciplined and erratic at times and he also took a lot of risks because of his arm.  He also played for far better teams but typically got beat in the big games under a more conservative Dan Reeves.  I watched them all. :(

When Shanny took over he opened up the offense with trips WRs and an All Pro TE, got Elway some decent RBs and a great OL, let Elway be Elway, and bingo.....back to back Super Bowl wins.  I watched those too. :D

My point would be that if you put Cutler on those same teams his career would look much different.  That's all.

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Look at this 4 year Tyler Higbee contract extension that says the Rams can afford to pay top 10 TE money to a guy with 24 and 25 career catches the last 2 years on the same team that’s paying Jared Goff and Aaron Donald like we pay Mack and probably will pay Mitch and and tell me how the salary cap is ever going to be a legitimate concern. It’s a complete myth. And while we’re at it, I don’t think we should hear that Trey Burton is overpaid anymore either. 

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1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

Look at this 4 year Tyler Higbee contract extension that says the Rams can afford to pay top 10 TE money to a guy with 24 and 25 career catches the last 2 years on the same team that’s paying Jared Goff and Aaron Donald like we pay Mack and probably will pay Mitch and and tell me how the salary cap is ever going to be a legitimate concern. It’s a complete myth. And while we’re at it, I don’t think we should hear that Trey Burton is overpaid anymore either. 

The Rams aren't exactly conservative in their team-building approach and they've made some obviously short-sighted moves over the past 2 seasons. Even Rams fans are confused about Higbee's new deal.

I would not point to that contract as any indication that QB contracts don't complicate the salary cap problem.

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2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

The Rams aren't exactly conservative in their team-building approach and they've made some obviously short-sighted moves over the past 2 seasons. Even Rams fans are confused about Higbee's new deal.

I would not point to that contract as any indication that QB contracts don't complicate the salary cap problem.

My point is that even as a team with huge money already on the books at several positions they’ve been able to kick some potential financial problems down the road to a time that will fall beyond their championship window. We are incredibly well set up to do the same even if Mitch gets Wentz money. 

THIS is the window, with a young team across the board mostly in or entering their prime. Who cares if the Bears have to MAYBE (depending on the next CBA) take a year in 2025 or so where they pay the piper financially for going for it from 2019-2023 in their prime championship window? There’s probably a sub- .500 season at the end of the rainbow with this defense even if Mitch becomes elite. If eating bad cap for a year in a year when we won’t contend a half dozen or so years from now is the price to pay for our best shot at winning the Super Bowl for the next several seasons then by God do that. Depending on the next CBA that financial catch up season may never even be a thing. Look at what the Rams and Dallas are doing financially - they clearly are taking this approach. The Saints have been kicking huge Brees money down the road for years. 

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13 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

My point is that even as a team with huge money already on the books at several positions they’ve been able to kick some potential financial problems down the road to a time that will fall beyond their championship window. We are incredibly well set up to do the same even if Mitch gets Wentz money. 

THIS is the window, with a young team across the board mostly in or entering their prime. Who cares if the Bears have to MAYBE (depending on the next CBA) take a year in 2025 or so where they pay the piper financially for going for it from 2019-2023 in their prime championship window? There’s probably a sub- .500 season at the end of the rainbow with this defense even if Mitch becomes elite. If eating bad cap for a year in a year when we won’t contend a half dozen or so years from now is the price to pay for our best shot at winning the Super Bowl for the next several seasons then by God do that. Depending on the next CBA that financial catch up season may never even be a thing. Look at what the Rams and Dallas are doing financially - they clearly are taking this approach. The Saints have been kicking huge Brees money down the road for years. 

They just signed Goff to his extension. They won't have to pay the piper for a few more years.

Nobody is worried about year 1 in a post-extension franchise. The concern is over the years that follow. If Mitch is more Joe Flacco than Russell Wilson, the Bears will end up in a situation where they bleed talent off the roster and have to draft perfectly just to stay competitive. We've seen this happen with even elite QBs like Brees where the Saints only came back into the title picture after several great draft classes. Since giving Wilson his deal, the Seahawks have been a consistent playoff team with little chance at a title. Mitch hasn't even shown he can play at that level yet. The thought of paying him at that level should scare Bears fans if he continues to play like he did last season.

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