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WEEK 1 @ OAK TOWN


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5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To be fair, the James injury was a complete fluke play

I understand that James didn't have the cleanest bill of health in Miami though. I understand you have to invest in free agency I just think it's a rarity offensive lineman with James' injury history live up to a second contract.  I do realize hindsight is 20/20 though. 

 

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22 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I understand that James didn't have the cleanest bill of health in Miami though. I understand you have to invest in free agency I just think it's a rarity offensive lineman with James' injury history live up to a second contract.  I do realize hindsight is 20/20 though. 

 

He played his entire rookie year, then missed half of 2016 with a toe injury,  then pulled his hammy in early Nov 2017, so got IR'd in a lost season (no point to bring him back for 2-3 meaningless games).  Played 15 games last year.   Given the meat grinder that RT is, and especially on a bad OL where they're under siege playing from behind, it's not a history that screams risk, especially since the injuries weren't of the chronic, likely-to-reoccur type.  The injury happened with a guy leg-whipping into his knee.  That's just bad luck.   It sucks, but that's football. 

I can get on Elway for a lot of things, but it's hard to kill him on either signing, TBH.  James is in his peak years, and Callahan came at a discount, and is much cheaper for 3 years because of the lack of full-season stats.   The other part - we're no longer a prime destination.  So I'm happy that Elway is going for FA's with a future - the 1-year retreads do nothing for our future.   These guys at least have a real shot of being key contributors when it matters for us.  Hard for me to get on Elway for the signings, that's all hindsight.

Edited by Broncofan
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As far as trading Miller/Harris, I don’t think it’s a drastic thought process, if you could get a large haul.  Denver, to me, appears so far away from competing that by the time they do both Miller and Harris will be on the decline.  Moving them for picks/younger assets could speed up that process as Denver seems to me to be in a mini rebuild considering the lack of talent throughout the roster.  If Denver could get a deal for Miller similar to what Oakland got for Mack, that’d be a no brainer, IMO.  

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FWIW, looks like our 4th WR spot is open for competition....

Patrick's a gamer who plays hard and helps on ST's..but as a WR, he's JAG.   Probably a little early, but I wouldn't mind seeing some snaps for Diontae Spencer, and see what his speed and YAC ability could do.  He's not refined enough (and certainly not big enough lol) to be a separator on his own, if he was, he'd already have been in a WR competition on other teams, but drawing up screens, jet sweeps, wonder if he can bring a MUCH needed speed element to our game.   And the obligatory deep ball play - it was just disgusting watching the dink and dunk O - the only big play we hit was on busted coverage, and it's easy to just key on #10 & #14.    He's probably no better than Isiaih McKenzie skill set type, but even if you get that without the boneheaded blunders and some surehandedness, well, that can be used (I mean, BUF got a half season of use out of McKenzie).

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11 minutes ago, germ-x said:

As far as trading Miller/Harris, I don’t think it’s a drastic thought process, if you could get a large haul.  Denver, to me, appears so far away from competing that by the time they do both Miller and Harris will be on the decline.  Moving them for picks/younger assets could speed up that process as Denver seems to me to be in a mini rebuild considering the lack of talent throughout the roster.  If Denver could get a deal for Miller similar to what Oakland got for Mack, that’d be a no brainer, IMO.  

Frankly, it's a no-brainer for Harris, because he's not staying.   The BEST we can hope for is end of 3rd 2021 pick and that's only if CHJ hits the jackpot and is a top 8 FA.   And if we spend big $ in FA, we negate the gain.   So the obvious fit is a day 2 2020 pick.   Then we're in business.

For Von, we'd need something like a Mack return for sure.   A guaranteed 1st, and frankly, none of this 1st-for-2nd pick swap that CHI fleeced OAK with.   On a bad team, that's just a 10-20 spot drop.     Next offseason, the price starts to drop, but right now, Von's still a top 5 D player, and the price shouldn't be discounted given how much of a premium position EDGE is.  There at least 3-4 teams that see themselves as contenders who could really use EDGE help.  

I would also agree with @broncos67 's statement that our pass rush shouldn't get killed for not getting to Carr - Gruden dialed up quick hitters to negate the pass rush for sure.  It's what OAK does consistently.  But we let the quick hitters go uncontested.  Waller & the other TE had 6-7 yard cushions, and the EDGE's / ILB's fell for their chip block feint EVERY time.   And when it was 3rd and medium/long, we gave HUGE cushions....and then OAK got free yards.   I mean, the clinching play was a great example.  Yes, the T came out to get Yiadom, but that's where you have to press him and offer S help, then Yiadom doesn't let the T get to him before S help can arrive.    It's not the lack of pass rush that really irks me - it's that we didn't adjust to what OAK was doing to counter us.  We made it so damn easy.   That's why I really give a big C/D grade to the coaching, plus the awful clock management in the 1H, and that crazy gadget play calling when we were pounding the ball down their throat in the 3Q when they were gassed.  

Edited by Broncofan
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@Broncofan you're right about the risk and the recurring of the injuries with James I can't kill the signing.  I guess I'm just sick of the half measures this franchise is going to rebuild. 

I like what Miami is doing for the long haul especially if they believe they have the coaching, i like the way Sashi set the foundation to rebuild in Cleveland. 

I remember the beatdown this team faced with Orton and Brandon Lloyd against  the raiders it was like 59 to 10.Iron did sharpen iron. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

For Von, we'd need something like a Mack return for sure.   A guaranteed 1st, and frankly, none of this 1st-for-2nd pick swap that CHI fleeced OAK with.   On a bad team, that's just a 10-20 spot drop.     Next offseason, the price starts to drop, but right now, Von's still a top 5 D player, and the price shouldn't be discounted given how much of a premium position EDGE is.  There at least 3-4 teams that see themselves as contenders who could really use EDGE help. 

How does salary work regarding trades? Dead money is the money we already paid von for the next two years that we can't get back? If that's the case he'd still be under contract for 10 mill a year next two years so you are limiting your # of teams to trade with.

I'd take on more money to increase trade haul if possible. Assuming there's not too many guys warranting extensions.

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

I fully understand Fangio had some mismanagement in his 1st game as an HC and Scangerello was terrible on a lot of levels.

I don’t think the issues with this team will be because of coaching, however.  In terms of coaches this is arguably the best staff Elway has put together.  Fangio is an exceptional defensive mind and LB coach. Donatell is an accomplished DB coach at multiple stops.  Munchak is one of the 2-3 best OL coaches in the game.  While this is Scangerellos 1st NFL OC gig he is thought of as an up and comer who knows how to coach QBs.  Kollar has been terrific with Denver’s DL for years.  There are also a lot of interesting guys like Renaldo Hill and what not.

IMO, this is actually a very good staff with many of them having a track recorded of being high quality NFL coaches.  

That brings me to the point, this team lacks talent.  I think this staff will coach guys up and we will see improvements from players throughout the year.  At the end of the day though, based off of what I saw last night, the lack of talent on this roster is more concerning than the coaching staff and that’s on Elway.

Well put germ-x!

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5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

How does salary work regarding trades? Dead money is the money we already paid von for the next two years that we can't get back? If that's the case he'd still be under contract for 10 mill a year next two years so you are limiting your # of teams to trade with.

I'd take on more money to increase trade haul if possible. Assuming there's not too many guys warranting extensions.

We've already paid out the dead money.   Von is paid 17M this year, 18M for 2020 & 2021.   We paid out 7.75M in dead money & roster bonuses already for 2019.    The rest that's left of the dead $ is the 3.4M of the original bonus for the final accrued year in 2020, and the 9.5M from last year's very foolhardy restructure for 2020-21.    

So we'd have to take on an extra 13M to trade Von - and save on whatever salary we haven't paid from the 17M (we've already paid 1/16 of that).    Basically, the money works on our end.  We could convert more 2019 $ to a signing bonus, and take that on - Flacco's extension will allow that.  I don't think it needs to come to that - a lot of suitors have cap space to make it work and they can do Flacco-like restructures.  Obviously if it sweetens the return, then sure.   

I think the trade talk with Von though is extremely premature.  He's signed at very clear market rates (17.5 & 18M x 2 is the number to keep in mind, THAT is what a team trading for him is getting, the dead money is what Elway pushed back, a team isn't taking that on).    But yeah, if we get an offer that's enticing, no reason not to listen.  

Harris on the other hand, MUST be moved by the trade deadline if we're dead in the water.  The sooner the better, as the impact will be greater, and the pick return higher.  I doubt Elway is worrying about that....for now.  But we get our doors blown off by CHI at home, then yeah, the FO should be ready to take calls.

 

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

I fully understand Fangio had some mismanagement in his 1st game as an HC and Scangerello was terrible on a lot of levels.

I don’t think the issues with this team will be because of coaching, however.  In terms of coaches this is arguably the best staff Elway has put together.  Fangio is an exceptional defensive mind and LB coach. Donatell is an accomplished DB coach at multiple stops.  Munchak is one of the 2-3 best OL coaches in the game.  While this is Scangerellos 1st NFL OC gig he is thought of as an up and comer who knows how to coach QBs.  Kollar has been terrific with Denver’s DL for years.  There are also a lot of interesting guys like Renaldo Hill and what not.

IMO, this is actually a very good staff with many of them having a track recorded of being high quality NFL coaches.  

That brings me to the point, this team lacks talent.  I think this staff will coach guys up and we will see improvements from players throughout the year.  At the end of the day though, based off of what I saw last night, the lack of talent on this roster is more concerning than the coaching staff and that’s on Elway.

You're spot on here, which is why I was surprised how badly we got outcoached. I know we're not working with a full cupboard, but we had a good defense & rushing attack last year with a similar roster. I think we'll have a better idea where we are, facing a top defense & shaky QB next week.

Edited by Joe_is_the_best
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8 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

This organization had 38 draft picks between 2013 and 2017. Only one turned out to be a good NFL starter, and we let him sign with the Panthers this offseason while our offensive line continues to be a mess. 

38 draft picks and there's not one difference maker on this team to show for it. 

WOW.

Incredible stat.

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James out at least a couple of weeks.  That indicates MCL.   That’s best case other than a bruise.   Likely 2-4 weeks and interior OL almost always lower end.  The RT spot a little iffier.   But Mack vs. RT  going to be ugly.  

Meanwhile Patrick to IR.   River Cracraft likely returns.  

 

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19 hours ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

Does Ellis evaluate and draft talent? Elway has proven he can't do that, and I don't believe in the devil you know vs. devil you don't argument. Unless Elway can convince the Colts to trade us the rights to Andrew Luck, we're going to be in the basement of the NFL for the next 4-5 years. I have zero faith in his ability to evaluate and draft talent. He's hit lightning in a bottle with a few late round picks, but his 2nd-5th round evaluations and draft history would be enough to show a GM not named Elway the door. 

Has Ellis demonstrated he can hire good football people? 

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