jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, RuskieTitan said: Show me the Super Bowl splits. We will when the Titans win one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Matts, you have to cherry pick "stretches" for this argument to have legs. If we look at 2018, Goff and Wentz were better. If we look at 2017, Goff and Wentz were better. If we look at 2017 and 2018, Goff and Wentz were significantly better. Your argument hinges on Dak's rookie year or eliminating 3 of Dak's starts in 2018. That's without even going to the eye test. Frankly, it's easy to see that Goff and Wentz have left Dak in the dust since Dak's far superior rookie year. But even if you want to dismiss the eye test, the stats reflect that observation. There was a stretch Dak played terrible. It started at the end of '17 and carried over to '18. Due to that Dak looks mediocre comparatively when viewing by year. My point is, outside of that one 10 game stretch of consecutive games: Dak was equal or better the first 25 games. Dak has been equal or better the past ~15 games. Again - the 10 game stretch Dak was awful. Our WRs were awful. Our OL was awful. Zeke was pedestrian. Our coaching was awful (we fired 2 OL coaches in that period). Everything was awful. Outside of those 10 games, Dak has been equal to or better than Goff and Wentz for the other 40 games. Which is interesting, because Goff and Wentz barely have 40 games played total. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you know Dak has the most 100+ QB rated games in their first 3 years... In NFL history? Edited September 4, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 hours ago, ChazStandard said: People over-react to big games. Yes, Goff was poor in the Superbowl, but he's only 24 and playing in his first ever Superbowl, going up against BB with two weeks to plan. Bill has made better, older and more experienced QBs look foolish. It's what he does. Goff has the tools to be elite, and it won't surprise me if at the end of the day he's the best QB from his class. Yeah, it's pretty silly. How many times did Belichick embarrass Peyton Manning in the playoffs before Manning finally beat him? 7 hours ago, swede700 said: I'll admit, no I haven't. But, in the games I have watched, I haven't been all that impressed. That even includes that offensive explosion against the Vikings last season. He was good that game, but I wouldn't say that he wowed me in the least. He wasn't all that much improved from the game the season before when the Vikings dominated him. As far as Mahomes, I'm in a wait and see mode on him too to a certain extent, but he showed far more in 1 year starting than I've seen from Goff in 3. Rex Grossman was only 2 years older than Goff and in his first full year starting and made a Super Bowl too. Let's not crown Goff as a superstar. For all we know, he could just be Kirk Cousins re-incarnate. And this is coming from a Vikings fan. Kirk's a decent QB, but he ain't a top-tier QB. I'll put aside the absolutely nuts claim about the Vikings game. You undermine your own argument when you invoke Rex Grossman. Let's compare the years where Rex Grossman and Jared Goff QBed their respective teams to the Super Bowl: Grossman 262/480 54.6% 3193 yards 6.7 YPA 23 TDs 20 Ints 73.9 passer rating Goff 364/561 64.9% 4688 yards 8.4 YPA 32 TDs 12 Ints 101.1 passer rating Are you honestly pretending that these are similar seasons? As for Kirk Cousins, Goff is 24 years old and already better. Hell, Kirk has never led his team to a 10 win season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said: Stop lying. Stop pretending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: There was a stretch Dak played terrible. It started at the end of '17 and carried over to '18. Due to that Dak looks mediocre comparatively when viewing by year. My point is, outside of that one 10 game stretch of consecutive games: Dak was equal or better the first 25 games. Dak was certainly better as a rookie. Nobody disputes that. Quote Dak has been equal or better the past ~15 games. No, he really hasn't been. Quote Again - the 10 game stretch Dak was awful. Our WRs were awful. Our OL was awful. Zeke was pedestrian. Our coaching was awful (we fired 2 OL coaches in that period). Everything was awful. Outside of those 10 games, Dak has been equal to or better than Goff and Wentz for the other 40 games. Which is interesting, because Goff and Wentz barely have 40 games played total. Outside of his rookie year, Goff and Wentz have clearly been the superior QBs. It's that simple. You can selectively choose which games count and which don't. You can blame the supporting cast. Dak has simply been the lesser QB. Quote Did you know Dak has the most 100+ QB rated games in their first 3 years... In NFL history? Yeah, I don't care that Dak was really, really good as a rookie. I care where each QB is now. Wentz and Goff are in a different tier. If you guys give Dak the same money Goff and Wentz received, I feel for you. But hey, if you're happy with that, you're happy with that. I'm one guy with an opinion. You're another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Dak was certainly better as a rookie. Nobody disputes that. No, he really hasn't been. Outside of his rookie year, Goff and Wentz have clearly been the superior QBs. It's that simple. You can selectively choose which games count and which don't. You can blame the supporting cast. Dak has simply been the lesser QB. Yeah, I don't care that Dak was really, really good as a rookie. I care where each QB is now. Wentz and Goff are in a different tier. If you guys give Dak the same money Goff and Wentz received, I feel for you. But hey, if you're happy with that, you're happy with that. I'm one guy with an opinion. You're another. Bro, 17 games as a rookie including playoffs. That leaves ~25 games as not a rookie where he has been equal to or better than Wentz and Goff. follow along. Edited September 4, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Bro, 17 games as a rookie including playoffs. That leaves 24 games as not a rookie. follow along. I already agreed that Dak was better as a rookie. Dak has 25 100+ passer rating games in his first 3 years. 12 of them came during his rookie year. Since that year, he has 13. Goff has 16 such games over the past two years, and Wentz has 13 (in less games played). Again, your entire argument hinges on Dak's rookie year. Wentz and Goff have been clearly better since then. Continue to pick and choose which games to count. Goff and Wentz still come out ahead since their rookie seasons. Edited September 4, 2019 by jrry32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I already agreed that Dak was better as a rookie. Dak has 25 100+ passer rating games in his first 3 years. 12 of them came during his rookie year. Since that year, he has 13. Goff has 16 such games over the past two years, and Wentz has 13 (in less games played). Again, your entire argument hinges on Dak's rookie year. Wentz and Goff have been clearly better since then. Continue to pick and choose which games to count. Goff and Wentz still come out ahead since their rookie seasons. Are you purposefully ignoring what I am saying? Take out Daks rookie year. Exclude it. If you look at *just* 2017 and 2018 Dak has played equal to or better than Wentz (maybe Goff?) outside of that one 10 game stretch that our team fell apart completely. Are you understanding it now? There is a 10 game stretch he was bad. Its the only 10 games in his career. You can look at Year 1, or not. Year 2, or not. Year 3, or not. Outside of that 10 game stretch Dak has been as good as Wentz (And Goff? Never checked) over every other time period. Edited September 4, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Are you purposefully ignoring what I am saying? Take out Daks rookie year. Exclude it. If you look at *just* 2017 and 2018 Dak has played equal to or better than Wentz (maybe Goff?) outside of that one 10 game stretch that our team fell apart completely. Are you understanding it now? There is a 10 game stretch he was bad. Its the only 10 games in his career. You can look at Year 1, or not. Year 2, or not. Year 3, or not. Outside of that 10 game stretch Dak has been as good as Wentz (And Goff? Never checked) over every other time period. Dak has played just as good as Wentz if you don't count a third of the games he played. Do you not see why that's a ridiculous argument? But okay, let's go with it. Here are their numbers from 2017 and 2018 when you ERASE Dak's terrible 10-game stretch: Dak 22 games 484/730 66.3% 5311 passing yards (241.4 passing yards per game) 7.3 YPA 36 passing TDs (1.6 passing TDs per game) 12 Ints (0.55 Ints per game) 97.2 passer rating Goff 31 games 660/1038 63.6% 8492 passing yards (273.9 passing yards per game) 8.2 YPA 60 passing TDs (1.9 passing TDs per game) 19 Ints (0.61 Ints per game) 100.8 passer rating Wentz 24 games 544/841 64.7% 6370 passing yards (265.4 passing yards per game) 7.6 YPA 54 TDs (2.3 passing TDs per game) 14 Ints (0.58 Ints per game) 102.0 passer rating Even when you remove a third of Dak's starts because he played awful, he still has worse numbers. Edited September 4, 2019 by jrry32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Spoiler alert: when you win this bet, they don't leave I have ways of making people leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Dak has played just as good as Wentz if you don't count a third of the games he played. Do you not see why that's a ridiculous argument? But okay, let's go with it. Here are their numbers from 2017 and 2018 when you ERASE Dak's terrible 10-game stretch: Dak 22 games 484/730 66.3% 5311 passing yards (241.4 passing yards per game) 7.3 YPA 36 passing TDs (1.6 passing TDs per game) 12 Ints (0.55 Ints per game) 97.2 passer rating Goff 31 games 660/1038 63.6% 8492 passing yards (273.9 passing yards per game) 8.2 YPA 60 passing TDs (1.9 passing TDs per game) 19 Ints (0.61 Ints per game) 100.8 passer rating Wentz 24 games 544/841 64.7% 6370 passing yards (265.4 passing yards per game) 7.6 YPA 54 TDs (2.3 passing TDs per game) 14 Ints (0.58 Ints per game) 102.0 passer rating Even when you remove a third of Dak's starts because he played awful, he still has worse numbers. I mean, Wentz missed like 10 of those games anyways (including playoffs). Ive run the numbers before with Dak and Wentz and they are both right around a 100-102 QB rating. Wentz has more fumbles and INTs though. What games did you use? Also did you include rushing TDs? Edited September 4, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: I mean, Wentz missed like 10 of those games anyways. Ive run the numbers before with Dak and Wentz and they are both right around a 100 QB rating. Wentz has more fumbles and INTs though. What games did you use? I ran Goff and Wentz' full seasons. I omitted the final 10 games of the 2017 season for Dak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Yeah, it's pretty silly. How many times did Belichick embarrass Peyton Manning in the playoffs before Manning finally beat him? I'll put aside the absolutely nuts claim about the Vikings game. You undermine your own argument when you invoke Rex Grossman. Let's compare the years where Rex Grossman and Jared Goff QBed their respective teams to the Super Bowl: Grossman 262/480 54.6% 3193 yards 6.7 YPA 23 TDs 20 Ints 73.9 passer rating Goff 364/561 64.9% 4688 yards 8.4 YPA 32 TDs 12 Ints 101.1 passer rating Are you honestly pretending that these are similar seasons? As for Kirk Cousins, Goff is 24 years old and already better. Hell, Kirk has never led his team to a 10 win season. You ONLY are suppose to look at stretches. Only look at the first half of Grossman's season, not the second half. Am I doing this right? lol 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I ran Goff and Wentz' full seasons. I omitted the final 10 games of the 2017 season for Dak. The 10 games start at @falcons '17 and spill into 2018. The first half of 2017 Dak was as good or better than Wentz and Goff. Maybe graphs will better convey what I am saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentwannabe Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I wanted to play the excluding game so I took away all of Josh Allen's games except for when he plays Miami. 60% completion, 5 passing touchdowns, 2 rushing touchdowns & 455 yards. YALL IN TROUBLE DIS SEASON! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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