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Danand

Looking Back - Flacco's Work Ethic

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I still don't get why people question Flaccos work ethic. It has never been questioned by anyone except fans who are upset he didn't have passing camps during the summer.

My biggest concern is still the oline. While Lamars ability to run the ball will mitigate some of that, if the interior can't hold their ground, I doubt we will be able to play the way we want.

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7 hours ago, Danand said:

I still don't get why people question Flaccos work ethic. It has never been questioned by anyone except fans who are upset he didn't have passing camps during the summer.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Sorry I don't have the articles on hand, but there were some reports that were based on sources inside the Ravens organization that Flacco was putting in the bare minimum amount of work. The fact that Flacco really never developed his game since 2010 would seem to back that up. 

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My biggest concern is still the oline. While Lamars ability to run the ball will mitigate some of that, if the interior can't hold their ground, I doubt we will be able to play the way we want.

Agreed. I think the starting 5 are fine (with Hurst as the weakest link), but any injuries will be tough to overcome. 

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10 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Sorry I don't have the articles on hand, but there were some reports that were based on sources inside the Ravens organization that Flacco was putting in the bare minimum amount of work. The fact that Flacco really never developed his game since 2010 would seem to back that up. 

Flacco had arguably his best year in 2014. Not every player keeps developing in a linear progress.

Edited by M.10.E

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7 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Flacco had arguably his best year in 2014. Not every player keeps developing in a linear progress.

Well I'd argue that the fluctuations in Flacco's performance from 2010-2018 had more to do with the coaching and personnel surrounding him than changes in his actual ability. 

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7 hours ago, Danand said:

I still don't get why people question Flaccos work ethic. It has never been questioned by anyone except fans who are upset he didn't have passing camps during the summer.

My biggest concern is still the oline. While Lamars ability to run the ball will mitigate some of that, if the interior can't hold their ground, I doubt we will be able to play the way we want.

There is a grand difference between solid work ethic and the crazed work ethic that the greats possess. Shaquille O’Neil had a quality work ethic in-season, but outside of basketball he was doing movies and living the Hollywood dream. Kobe Bryant had an insane work ethic and passion for the game and hated Shaq for his “normal” work ethic. Shaq was the most dominant force the NBA had ever seen and finished his career as a fringe top 10 player of all time. Kobe was probably only a top 50 talent but finished as a sure top 10 player. The difference? Work ethic.

Flacco has a “normal” work ethic. He works hard in-season. Out of season the fact that he was not instrumental in holding passing camps unless the media made a big deal about it or having his WRs drive him around so he could develop chemistry, or work with passing gurus in the offseason to make sure his footwork is on point. Flacco worked in-season only. Meanwhile Matt Ryan worked with a passing guru during his MVP season. Meanwhile Peyton Manning ALWAYS held passing camps with his WRs. Meanwhile Tom Brady works with nutritionists and trainers to make sure his body is in peak performance. Flacco was making babies and exploring towns. Flacco is a cool dude, probably an excellent person to hang with, but as Tim Grover wrote in his book Relentless... there are Coolers, Closers, and Cleaners. Flacco was only a Cooler. We know this, the articles speak on that, Flacco’s career reflects that. The truth is undeniably true and this is Flacco’s truth. That doesn’t mean he was lazy, it just means that he wasn’t Relentless... and most people aren’t.

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What insight to Flaccos work ethic do you have outside him not having any passing camps in the off season? Just because he didn't mention it or put it on social media doesn't mean he didn't do the same things others did.

I haven't seen any proof Flacco lacked work ethic, it is pure guessing.

Also, I think people vastly overvalue those passing camps.

Edit:

I have to add, that americans and danes have a vastly different view on how to work. I haven't experienced it myself, but 100% of the people I know who have lived and worked in the US mentions, that staying many ours at work is considered having great work ethic - even though the activity/production is quite low - or that many wait to leave their office until the manager/supervisor does it.

Just because someone come in early and leave late doesn't mean they necessarily view more tape, get more work done.

Edited by Danand

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3 minutes ago, Danand said:

What insight to Flaccos work ethic do you have outside him not having any passing camps in the off season? Just because he didn't mention it or put it on social media doesn't mean he didn't do the same things others did.

I haven't seen any proof Flacco lacked work ethic, it is pure guessing.

Also, I think people vastly overvalue those passing camps.

Football is a sport where stories are always breaking nationally and locally. The Ravens have had one of the top media departments for some time now. It takes very little for them to run with a story on a player and wax poetic on accomplishments . Yet not once in Flacco’s career, outside of his final season with the Ravens (after Lamar was already drafted), have we heard of him running a passing camp with team WRs.

I mean, I find it laughable that you’re just sweeping that away as if it shouldn’t count as evidence. Like how do you get to decide what is and is not evidence? 😂

Not once have we heard of Flacco working with a passing guru to help fix flaws in his footwork/technique (he used to get a lot of balls batted for as tall as he was, I’m sure that could have been improved).

All the players with insane work ethic we’ve heard stories of be it football, basketball, hockey, baseball, or futbol. Thus having argued that Flacco has only had subpar or “normal” work ethic throughout his career, the onus would not be on me to provide examples of how average his work ethic has been, it would be on you to provide examples of extreme work ethic... as that is what is being questioned. I have looked, there are none. Flacco wasn’t a horrible worker. But all told, he was average at best. Prove the case otherwise or just continue to decide what is and what is not allowed to be used as evidence against Flacco going above and beyond his line of duty.

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I don't care one way or the other about Flacco's work ethic but the fact he never seemed to improve on his footwork (and actually got significantly worse after Jim Zorn left) or any other aspect of his game post 2012 told me all I needed to know.

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I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree on this aspect. It's all speculation and no one is going to change their mind. Let's focus on 2019-

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Also @coordinator0 or @drd23 if one of you could branch the Flacco work ethic convo into a new thread that might be best. Either to spark other perspectives or just so it doesn’t derail this topic.

Yeah, this discussion branched off quickly from the schedule discussion. 

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3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Football is a sport where stories are always breaking nationally and locally. The Ravens have had one of the top media departments for some time now. It takes very little for them to run with a story on a player and wax poetic on accomplishments . Yet not once in Flacco’s career, outside of his final season with the Ravens (after Lamar was already drafted), have we heard of him running a passing camp with team WRs.

I mean, I find it laughable that you’re just sweeping that away as if it shouldn’t count as evidence. Like how do you get to decide what is and is not evidence? 😂

Not once have we heard of Flacco working with a passing guru to help fix flaws in his footwork/technique (he used to get a lot of balls batted for as tall as he was, I’m sure that could have been improved).

All the players with insane work ethic we’ve heard stories of be it football, basketball, hockey, baseball, or futbol. Thus having argued that Flacco has only had subpar or “normal” work ethic throughout his career, the onus would not be on me to provide examples of how average his work ethic has been, it would be on you to provide examples of extreme work ethic... as that is what is being questioned. I have looked, there are none. Flacco wasn’t a horrible worker. But all told, he was average at best. Prove the case otherwise or just continue to decide what is and what is not allowed to be used as evidence against Flacco going above and beyond his line of duty.

You are the one making assumptions based on nothing at all. You are talking about it as facts although you have no insight to support it whatsoever, so no, it is not my task to prove Flaccos work ethic.

I am not deciding what is and what is not evidence. I am pointing towards that we have never heard anyone one the staff question or call out Flaccos commitment or work ethic, I can't remember seeing a player doing it either - he has been called out on his play, but not work ethic, that is something you make up because you think throwing a few balls during the summer is something that build chemistry with wide receivers.

Maybe Flacco and Pitta got together during the summer and had a few passing practices, but didn't want to put it on social media or tell a journalist about it, you don't know and I don't know.

So stop acting like you know stuff, that you know nothing about...crying smiley or whatever it is

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I've seen/heard/read enough from or about Flacco over a decade+ to personally get the sense that he doesn't live and die for football as much as some of the top tier players. Have you ever interviewed someone for a job? Do you just ask someone if their work ethic is strong?

Seems like you are pushing a nihilistic philosophy to say that we are not allowed to form that opinion without some 100% rock solid evidence. If there was a world where we could get these answers, I'd be completely stunned to learn that Flacco put more time into his craft than Brady or Brees or Wilson.

Edited by wackywabbit

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14 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I've seen/heard/read enough from or about Flacco over a decade+ to personally get the sense that he doesn't live and die for football as much as some of the top tier players. Have you ever interviewed someone for a job? Do you just ask someone if their work ethic is strong?

Seems like you are pushing a nihilistic philosophy to say that we are not allowed to form that opinion without some 100% rock solid evidence. If there was a world where we could get these answers, I'd be completely stunned to learn that Flacco put more time into his craft than Brady or Brees or Wilson.

All I am saying is that we are all guessing. Then it annoys me when someone throws random stuff out as facts.

Would be the same to say Lamar doesn't have a great work ethic because he doesn't stay at the castle till late evening to watch film just like Brees, Brady and wilson does.

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27 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I've seen/heard/read enough from or about Flacco over a decade+ to personally get the sense that he doesn't live and die for football as much as some of the top tier players. Have you ever interviewed someone for a job? Do you just ask someone if their work ethic is strong?

Seems like you are pushing a nihilistic philosophy to say that we are not allowed to form that opinion without some 100% rock solid evidence. If there was a world where we could get these answers, I'd be completely stunned to learn that Flacco put more time into his craft than Brady or Brees or Wilson.

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. You could tell from the way he carried himself and his attitude that he didn't really live and breathe football - it was closer to just being something he did because he was good at it. And honestly a lot of that is why I found him likeable - compared to a lot of athletes he came across as much more normal and well-adjusted, and he never let himself take himself too seriously. 

But compare that to someone Tom Brady who is a psycho competitor robot who probably has one of the greatest work ethics of any professional athlete ever but also has the personality of a legit alien. I dunno, it's not something that is eminently proveable, but it's the vibe Flacco always gave off. Joe may not have been the hardest worker but he was still an A+ competitor, which is why he rarely if ever missed games, and why he could basically sleepwalk through regular seasons and then turn it on in the playoffs. I think people mistake the idea of saying Flacco didn't have a great work ethic for saying he was lazy. You can't get to where he got to just straight up being lazy. But he didn't have that upper echelon of psycho robot athlete work ethic. 

I get a different vibe from Lamar that in the context of wanting to see him grow has me excited. The way he carries himself and the way his teammates talk about him, you can just tell there's a presence about him, he's a natural leader, and that he desperately wants to be great. None of that means he will actually be great - sometimes you're just not good enough no matter how hard you try. But with Lamar I have a pretty good feeling that whatever he does accomplish as an NFL QB will be about as much as he could have possibly done given his circumstnaces. With Joe I'll always wonder whether there wasn't a whole greater level to him as an athlete that he never quite unlocked because the way things shook out in his career - he got paid and he got a ring - he didn't really feel like he had to get to that level. 

 

 

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