Looking Back - Flacco's Work Ethic

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, Danand said:

All I am saying is that we are all guessing. Then it annoys me when someone throws random stuff out as facts.

Would be the same to say Lamar doesn't have a great work ethic because he doesn't stay at the castle till late evening to watch film just like Brees, Brady and wilson does.

You can tell Lamar's work ethic already though by how much he's already improved from last year. Did anyone notice a sizeable improvement in Joe Flacco himself from 2012 - 2018? Anyone? Bueller?

[diamondbull424]

14 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

You can tell Lamar's work ethic already though by how much he's already improved from last year. Did anyone notice a sizeable improvement in Joe Flacco himself from 2012 - 2018? Anyone? Bueller?

What’s more, Lamar didn’t need to come out and update his social media for us to know he was working with a passing coach this year, the Ravens media was very forthcoming on it. Why? Because the Ravens are one of the best marketing organizations in the NFL. They have one of the best media teams around. So while they’re new and not storied, they do a good job to wax poetic.

Ive already heard stories about Lamar working with a passing coach, how he threw balls to Jaylen Smith all summer, how he has Marquise Brown drive him around everywhere and now they’re developing a good bond.

[Danand]

15 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

What’s more, Lamar didn’t need to come out and update his social media for us to know he was working with a passing coach this year, the Ravens media was very forthcoming on it. Why? Because the Ravens are one of the best marketing organizations in the NFL. They have one of the best media teams around. So while they’re new and not storied, they do a good job to wax poetic.

Ive already heard stories about Lamar working with a passing coach, how he threw balls to Jaylen Smith all summer, how he has Marquise Brown drive him around everywhere and now they’re developing a good bond.

Social media wasn't such a big thing back when Flacco was drafted and developed. I think we tend to forget that. It was back in the Myspace days.

With regard to Flaccos development. I don't know if he could have been better, but he could have had a higher ceiling if we had commited more to a system as we are doing with Lamar. I think we can all agree that Kubiak unlocked a next level of Flacco who looked slightly better and with less bad games in 2014 compared to the rest of his career.

Unfortunately we never managed to build on that season.  

[diamondbull424]

On 9/4/2019 at 12:15 PM, Danand said:

What insight to Flaccos work ethic do you have outside him not having any passing camps in the off season? Just because he didn't mention it or put it on social media doesn't mean he didn't do the same things others did.

I haven't seen any proof Flacco lacked work ethic, it is pure guessing.

Also, I think people vastly overvalue those passing camps.

Edit:

I have to add, that americans and danes have a vastly different view on how to work. I haven't experienced it myself, but 100% of the people I know who have lived and worked in the US mentions, that staying many ours at work is considered having great work ethic - even though the activity/production is quite low - or that many wait to leave their office until the manager/supervisor does it.

Just because someone come in early and leave late doesn't mean they necessarily view more tape, get more work done.

I just noticed the edit. And I disagree completely with using this analogy in this circumstance. What we are talking about here is the economic efficiency in regard to the individuals within the sports workplace. Thus economic terms apply and thus with this situation we’re talking Productive Efficiency.

More hours don’t always equate to more production, this is true. It’s about finding an efficient middle ground where the least amount of hours can be achieved for the most production gains. Which is just to say work smarter, not harder and that tryhards don’t always win.

But Flacco was not productively efficient. Flacco is an example of a student trying to cram all his studies into the weekend before the final exam. The evidence shows in that when Flacco had a dedicated QB coach with Jim Zorn and Jim Caldwell his footwork improved markedly. The years that his OC doubled as his QB coach, his footwork regressed to the established mean. This is because those coaches focused the offseason on improving Flacco’s flaws. This was not something that Flacco focused on HIMSELF.

Just imagine how inaccurate Jackson’s passes still would be and how many lame ducks he would be throwing had he not taken his own timeout to fix the passing flaws he had last season. He made an offseason plan to improve and dedicated his time to that improvement. We’ve seen the results in a marked difference in his spiral quality and accuracy of throws. This is the same empirical evidence we can glean from when Matt Ryan focused on offseason improvements.

The only news I can find on Flacco’s offseason regimen was when he spent time working with former BOXER Maleek Jackson to, I suppose improve his conditioning? Toughness? Explosiveness? Not too sure, but that’s the only thing. So it’s not like the Ravens media was just committed to not reporting his offseason work.

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/video/final-drive-joe-flacco-takes-up-boxing-for-offseason-training-18682766

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, Danand said:

Social media wasn't such a big thing back when Flacco was drafted and developed. I think we tend to forget that. It was back in the Myspace days.

With regard to Flaccos development. I don't know if he could have been better, but he could have had a higher ceiling if we had commited more to a system as we are doing with Lamar. I think we can all agree that Kubiak unlocked a next level of Flacco who looked slightly better and with less bad games in 2014 compared to the rest of his career.

Unfortunately we never managed to build on that season.  

I’m not sure how this part is too relevant? It was still at a time when media was all over players and there was always a lot of hype/coverage.

What’s more, maybe social media wasn’t exactly how it is today but Twitter was still  popular over here. Twitter had been around for two years at that point. The only difference now is that athletes use it as a quick means of interacting with fans and providing updates.

With Flacco though, I’m not sure how that is relevant. He’s still not the kind of athlete that is addicted to social media. Yet he had plenty of stories about him during his time in Baltimore. Some including his offseason exploits, but with all of those exploits, there is a rare snapshot of instances that point to him doing football specific training in the offseason.

Yet during that same time period I’ve read stories of Anquan Boldin and Steve Smith’s offseason regimens. I’ve read about Ray Lewis and what he does. Suggs offseason work. Ed Reed has had some stories regarding his offseason tape prowess, not to mention the obvious stories of QBs from other teams.

So these stories of players going above and beyond exist... they just do not exist with regards to Flacco and football outside of the 2018 offseason where he was trying to hold onto his job. Or maybe 2017 with him working with a boxer (which is loosely related).

Like @BaltimoreTerp so eloquently stated, the everyday attitude that Flacco brought to the table is exactly WHY Flacco was a fan favorite and a favorite of mine.

But while you’ve stated Flacco got the short end of the stick in terms of development and systems and changing coordinators, etc. However those were the things that he couldn’t control. Other QBs have experienced similar trials, yet improved their play because they focused on the things they could control. That’s the offseason work and improvements to be gained from that.

You’ve made statements that have essentially doubted the “supposed gains” an offseason can provide. Well look no further than Lamar Jackson’s improvements. He went from looking like he did in 2018 where his defense was that he was young and inexperienced and needed time, to then going to OTAs where he still didn’t look much better, to in training camp looking like the same animal but a whole different beast. I will make excuses for some of Flacco’s flaws, but the solutions were always right there in front of him, had he controlled the things that he could have.

[RavensfanRD]

The Mighty Joe Flacco was god-like! He didn't need to go passing camps or work like Peyton Manning. He needed the offensive support my mans Lamar is currently getting! For Joe Flacco so loved the Ravens, he fell on the sword so Lamar could be great and have great pieces as well. Let us remember the Greatness that is Joe Flacco. The Superbowl MVP! The eater of worlds come playoff time. IF only he weren't betrayed by a Dean Pees or a few WRs that shall remain nameless. His work ethic was fine. He had decent balance.