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Reggie draft ability? Overall as a GM?


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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

You really need to take the Raider shades off and try to see things for the way they are.  No matter what evidence you are given you just blow it off and somehow the Raiders are fine.  We are not in certain areas and it is obvious. I agree with you on some matters and you are an intelligent poster but when you deny obvious areas of concern you lose some credibility.  We need an average defense to make a Super Bowl run but we do not have one if we can not maintain the turnover differential.  I stated it in another thread but if you give us an average TO Diff our defense is ranked in the bottom 5-7 in points and yards.  You can give your opinion but I am looking over the stats and how changes effect the overall outcome of our games.  12-4 can quickly turn into 8-8.

I'm not ignoring anything. I watch every game and read everything just like most here. I just choose not to buy into the doom and gloom. Notice how I'm not making prediction like we're going this far or the team will do this or that. But it's also funny how you brush aside the stats I gave and the reason the turnover diff has a good chance to continuing on the same level, if not better. I don't assign most of those turnovers to luck for the reasons I have pointed out. They are earned by those players (Mack, Irvin, Nelson and Amerson)  consistently.

I never said anything about a playoff or Super Bowl run in relation to the defense. Of course, you'd want the strongest defense possible and history has dictated that those that go far in the playoffs have decent defenses. What I would say to that is what I have been saying the past 6 months. It's gonna take time for everyone to be in sync and conditioned properly because of the things I have noted. If we can get the kinks worked out and give the offense the same, if not better, support we'll be a hard team to beat. That is how this team is built right now.

IMO Reggie has planned this from 2012. Somethings have worked and some haven't and he has adjusted with the team. Just an example but can you imagine if Aldon wasn't a knucklehead. Maybe we don't draft Calhoun. I say that to highlight that Reggie is adapting with the team and keeping the future secure with smart deals and young players the coaches should be able to develop. I never doubted him and I'm happy we are seeing the success we have this past year. Means my faith was well founded.

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It's really going to take a few more Drafts to see how Reggie becomes as a GM. AS of now we are still filling holes and drafting based off need. Once The Raiders have a solid team we'll be drafting BPA more often. Carr, Mack, Jackson, and Cooper are solid players that will be the nucleus for years to come. The Draft is only one tool of many that make a GM standout. I'd give him a B-, Hit on the Standout WR, Hit on the Small School Players Carr and Mack, doesn't wager the house in trades.

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I've been a Reggie McKenzie supporter since he came to the team. Coming from an era of abject incomptence after the team's 2002 Super Bowl run, RM has really turned the ship around and turned to Raiders into a well run organization.

That said, every year my confidence in Reggie in April wanes. He definitely has a "type", particularly on both lines of scrimmage, which causes him to make dubious choices during the draft. He certainly likes size, but not necessarily strength (see: Jihad Ward). He likes projects, or guys who he percieves would flourish exponentially under NFL coaching. He doesn't seem to be a data junkie. In fact, he tends to zig sharply when others zag, particularly in the early rounds. He does tend to play it safe around round 3 (where he generally likes to take seniors: Vanderdoes, Calhoun, Walford), which is a trend I generally like.

Sometimes I wish he'd just hit doubles in the early rounds (1-2) instead of going with his "avant-garde" picks. Maybe he doesn't view guys like Ward and Edwards as "projects", but there were certainly players who weren't standouts in college or the combine. Since the Raiders are no longer picking early in the draft, there is some room for experimentation, but so-called "safe" players could do this roster a lot of good.

I generally like what he did this year (some of you know my adoration of Obi pre-draft), and - at least his top 3 picks - do signal somewhat a departure of going with off-the-beaten-path type picks. As long as he's not as rigid in his methodology as some NFL GMs can be, I'm confident he'll hit more often in the draft.

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Overall Reggie is a very good GM. His drafting is above average as many teams don't get much out of drafts. He's good at getting late round and UDFA's who make the team. His early rounds are hit and miss, but for those of you saying Carr was a 'no brainer' then you should be happy Reggie didn't trade up as we all knew the Browns wanted a QB. Had Browns taken Carr then maybe johnny Football would have been our no brainer pick. So it's not just what you do but also what you don't do. We could have picked Carr over Mack but he didn't and we got both...

There are picks I'd rather than what Reggie did. Ward over Robinson was a head scratcher. not taking Foster when LB seemed like such a need. No GM is perfect but Reggie is a very good GM overall.

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Based off who I remember liking as prospects those years I would have ended up with something like:

2012:
3: Alameda Ta'amu, NT Washington - I really liked him that year and thought he was going to be a beast of a nose tackle.
4: Alfonzo Dennard, CB Nebraska - I thought he was first round talent, but did that stupid punch before the draft. I would have gambled in the fourth for the starter talent when we were so bad. IRL he went in the 7th.
5: Vontaze Burfict, LB Arizona State - Basically the same as above. IRL he went undrafted.
5: Juron Criner, WR Arizona State - I really liked this pick back then.
6: Griff Whalen, WR Stanford - is the only other player I remember knowing and liking as a potential slot guy and return option.
7: Marquette King, P Fort Valley State - I had absolutely no idea who he was, just giving a shout out to Reggie for signing him this year. I'm going to burn a 7th in my revisionist history to think my scouts could have convinced me once they discovered him. Really though, just shout out Reggie and I don't remember anyone else available by name.

2013:
1: Star Lotulelei, NT Utah - Since I had Alameda Ta'amu and he had the arrest, I would have readdressed that pick here. Like many Raider fans I was a fan of staying at 3 and taking a DT. I liked Star more than Sharif Floyd, especially as I always saw the Raiders as closer to a 3-4 and the NT was more important than a 3Tech.
2: No second since I wouldn't have traded down with Miami, and we lost our Second in the Carson Palmer trade before Reggie got there.
3: Tyrann Mathieu, CB LSU - The Honeybadger was all the rage and the Heisman-esque playmaking ability would have been sweet.
4: Marcus Lattimore, RB South Carolina - Basically the same idea as Mathieu, but injury concerns instead of marijuana ones. I wouldn't have traded down with TB, so I lose that extra 6th.
late: Ryan Swope, WR Texas A&M - This is the only late round guy available at our late round picks that I remember liking. He obviously never played because of concussions, but I know I would have burned a pick on him.
I also would have kept Carson Palmer.


QB: Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart
RB: Darren McFadden, Jamaize Olawale, Marcel Reece, Marcus Lattimore
WR: Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford, Juron Criner, Griff Whalen
TE: --whoever would sign--
OT: Jared Veldheer, --whoever would sign--
G: --whoever would sign--, Stefen Wisniewski,
C: --whoever would sign--

DE: Lamarr Houston
NT: Star Lotulelei
OLB: --whoever would sign--
ILB: Vontaze Burfict
CB: Tyrann Mathieu, Alfonso Dennard
S: --whoever would sign--

2014:
I would have extended Veldheer and Lamarr Houston.
1: Khalil Mack, OLB Buffalo: I thought he would have gone earlier and would have taken Mike Evans otherwise.
2: Derek Carr, QB Fresno State: I probably would have burned another pick trading up into the late first like the Vikings did for Bridgewater.
3: Donte Moncrief, WR Ole Miss: He was one of my favorite prospects that year.
4: Telvin Smith, LB Florida State: Also one of my favorite prospects that year. With a LB corps featuring Burfict and Mack I'd have viewed Smith as the third piece as the coverage guy to Burficts run stop and Mack's rush.
5: Daniel McCullers, NT Tennessee: This dude was huge and I liked his potential as a NT. I wouldn't have traded for Flynn, because I'd have kept Palmer.
6: Christian Jones, LB Florida State: I also liked him as a depth guy.
7: Michael Sam, Edge Missouri: I would have taken him as an edge rusher.

QB: Carson Palmer, Derek Carr (Carr starts when Palmer's nerve goes out)
RB: Darren McFadden, Jamaize Olawale, Marcel Reece, Marcus Lattimore
WR: Donte Moncrief, Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Griff Whalen
TE: --whoever would sign--
OT: Jared Veldheer, --whoever would sign--
G: --whoever would sign--, Stefen Wisniewski,
C: --whoever would sign--

DE: Lamarr Houston, --whoever would sign--
NT: Star Lotulelei, Daniel McCullers
OLB: Khalil Mack, Michael Sam
ILB: Vontaze Burfict, Telvin Smith, Christian Jones
CB: Tyrann Mathieu, Alfonso Dennard
S: --whoever would sign--

2015:
1. Leonard Williams, DE USC: here I had my WR in Moncrief the year before, so that's the tie breaker between Williams and Cooper here for me when they were close at the time.
2. La'el Collins, OL LSU: I was all about drafting him as high as #4 overall and wanted him at every pick after that.
3. Henry Anderson, DE Stanford: He was one of my favorite prospects of the draft.
4: Adrian Amos, S Penn State: He was one of my favorites, wouldn't have traded down with TB so lose a 7th.
5: Karlos Williams, RB Florida State: I thought he was very good, and I have basically no RB at this point.
6: Anthony Chickillo, DE Miami: I thought he was very good at the Senior Bowl.
7: Gerrod Holliman, FS Louisville: Yeah the 14 INT would have got him drafted by me even if he couldn't tackle.

QB: Derek Carr, Carson Palmer
RB: Darren McFadden, Karlos Williams, Jamaize Olawale, Marcel Reece, Marcus Lattimore
WR: Donte Moncrief, Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Griff Whalen
TE: --whoever would sign--
OT: Jared Veldheer, La'el Collins
G: --whoever would sign--, Stefen Wisniewski,
C: --whoever would sign--

DE: Leonard Williams, Henry Anderson, Anthony Chickillo, Lamarr Houston
NT: Star Lotulelei, Daniel McCullers
OLB: Khalil Mack, Michael Sam
ILB: Vontaze Burfict, Telvin Smith, Christian Jones
CB: Tyrann Mathieu, Alfonso Dennard
S: Adrian Amos, --whoever would sign--, Gerrod Holliman

2016:
1. Laquan Treadwell, WR Ole Miss: I liked him and here there is a big need. Tunsil would have been #1, but got sniped ahead.
2. Jason Spriggs, LT Indiana: A'Shawn Robinson was my top player available, but I'm stacked at the position comparatively. I liked Jason Spriggs a lot as a ZBS LT, would fit here.
3: Paul Perkins, RB UCLA: I really liked Paul Perkins coming out, I think I would have taken him here in this situation with this now severely different Raiders to replace McFadden and Karlos Williams.
4: Blake Martinez, MLB Stanford: He was one of my favorite mid round prospects.
5: Anthony Zettel, DT Penn State: Another one of my favorite mid round prospects.
6: Daniel Braverman, WR Western Michigan: I thought he was going to be a good slot WR.
7: Keith Marshall, RB Georgia: I really liked him, and at this point I'm re-experimenting with the failed Lattimore move for a potential break out value RB when healthy.

QB: Derek Carr, Carson Palmer?
RB: Paul Perkins, Darren McFadden, Karlos Williams, Jamaize Olawale, Keith Marshall
WR: Donte Moncrief, Laquan Treadwell, Daniel Braverman Griff Whalen
TE: --whoever would sign--
OT: Jared Veldheer, Jason Spriggs
G: La'el Collins, Stefen Wisniewski,
C: --whoever would sign--

5T DE: Henry Anderson, Anthony Chickillo
NT: Star Lotulelei, Daniel McCullers
3T: Leonard Williams, Anthony Zettel
9T/Edge: Khalil Mack, Michael Sam
SLB: Vontaze Burfict, --whoever would sign--,
MLB: Blake Martinez, Christian Jones
WLB: Telvin Smith, --whoever would sign--,
CB: Tyrann Mathieu, --whoever would sign--,Alfonso Dennard
S: Adrian Amos, --whoever would sign--, Gerrod Holliman

2017:
1: Forrest Lamp, OG Western Kentucky: My Oline could use work.
2: JuJu Schuster-Smith, WR USC: Have to readdress WR again because of Treadwell's slow start and Moncrief's injuries.
3: Shaquill Griffin, CB UCF: Really liked him, could use CBs
4: Desmond King, CB Iowa: Really liked him, could use CBs.
5: Nate Gerry, SS Nebraska: I really liked him, could use a  SS
6: Elijah Lee, OLB Kansas State: Really liked him as a back up WLB.
7: Austin Carr, WR Northwestern: Really liked him as a slot WR and my other attempts haven't worked.

 

QB: Derek Carr
RB: Paul Perkins, Darren McFadden, Karlos Williams, Jamaize Olawale, Keith Marshall
WR: Donte Moncrief, Laquan Treadwell, JuJu Schuster-Smith, Austin Carr, Daniel Braverman
TE: --whoever would sign--
OT: Jared Veldheer, Jason Spriggs
G: La'el Collins, Forrest Lamp
C: Stefen Wisniewski

5T DE: Henry Anderson, Anthony Chickillo
NT: Star Lotulelei, Daniel McCullers
3T: Leonard Williams, Anthony Zettel
9T/Edge: Khalil Mack, Michael Sam
SLB: Vontaze Burfict, --whoever would sign--,
MLB: Blake Martinez, Christian Jones
WLB: Telvin Smith, Elijah Lee
CB: Tyrann Mathieu, Shaquill Griffin, Desmond King, Alfonso Dennard
S: Adrian Amos, Nate Gerry, Gerrod Holliman

 

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Haha, those hindsight redrafts are always fun. I don't really know what we'd do in situations though because NFL gms have so much more info and data then we do. If we knew what they did all our "liked players" may be completely different. It is fun thou. When I'm bored I occasionally pretend I got the job in 2012. One thing I can say pretty sure is that I don't any of us would be hitting on late round guys and UDFAs like Reggie and staff have.

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5 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Haha, those hindsight redrafts are always fun. I don't really know what we'd do in situations though because NFL gms have so much more info and data then we do. If we knew what they did all our "liked players" may be completely different. It is fun thou. When I'm bored I occasionally pretend I got the job in 2012. One thing I can say pretty sure is that I don't any of us would be hitting on late round guys and UDFAs like Reggie and staff have.

The late round and UDFA's we get have been great.  RM has done an unbelievable job here.  Only two misses were Burfict and Collins.  I would have drafted Burfict that year.  I remember yelling at my TV that year and my high school buddy works with him now at his agency.  I would have drafted Collins in the 7th and seen if he was really willing to sit out.  You take a bigger chance on another players talent.  Would have done the extension as soon as possible and let him know that was my plan in negotiations.

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On 9/10/2017 at 0:29 AM, drfrey13 said:

The late round and UDFA's we get have been great.  RM has done an unbelievable job here. 

Yeah and the thing that keeps slipping my mind, since we are in the thick of the season now, is that we should be getting a 5th and three 6th round compensatory picks this coming year. Reggie and co probably had a pizza party when it worked out like that knowing their success rate at finding contributors in that range is high.

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No such thing as a perfect GM, they all miss. Someone recently posted all the John Elway misses, it was a long list. Reggie has the ability to find key players late in the draft or undrafted. That is a great quality to have. Reggie will be the Raiders GM for 20+ years. He survived the hardest part, completely rebuilding the roster winning 11 games in 3 years... If he didn't get fired for that chances are he will be here a LONG time.

 

 

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1 hour ago, raidersedge said:

No such thing as a perfect GM, they all miss. Someone recently posted all the John Elway misses, it was a long list. Reggie has the ability to find key players late in the draft or undrafted. That is a great quality to have. Reggie will be the Raiders GM for 20+ years. He survived the hardest part, completely rebuilding the roster winning 11 games in 3 years... If he didn't get fired for that chances are he will be here a LONG time.

 

 

Elway is really overrated. He has yet to show he knows anything about drafting, he's made his rep off of free agency and has whiffed on drafting QBs twice. As we know free agency isn't a long term strategy. Conversely Reggie has built through both the draft and FA with Mack/Carr/Coop and KO/Penn/Crabtree.

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3 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Elway is really overrated. He has yet to show he knows anything about drafting, he's made his rep off of free agency and has whiffed on drafting QBs twice. As we know free agency isn't a long term strategy. Conversely Reggie has built through both the draft and FA with Mack/Carr/Coop and KO/Penn/Crabtree.

Agree for the most part.  But he's had a few other good players he's picked.  I always say he'd be screwed if he didn't already have Von Miller and then have Peyton Manning fall onto his lap.  But he picked Brandon Marshal (LB), Danny Trevathan, Malik Jackson, Bradley Roby (who I still don't see they hype with yet), and found Julius Thomas and Chris Harris.  He's not 100% incompetent but I'll still go with Reggie.

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12 hours ago, raidersedge said:

No such thing as a perfect GM, they all miss. Someone recently posted all the John Elway misses, it was a long list. Reggie has the ability to find key players late in the draft or undrafted. That is a great quality to have. Reggie will be the Raiders GM for 20+ years. He survived the hardest part, completely rebuilding the roster winning 11 games in 3 years... If he didn't get fired for that chances are he will be here a LONG time.

 

 

I agree. Most people forget that most good teams average 50%, or a little over 50% hit on draftees and free agents. If reggie can continue to hit on over half his free agent signings and draft picks from 1st to UDFA, he's doing very well. 

Reggie also hits on 1 or 2 year players too. Guys that can come in and contribute for  a year or two, but then taper off. But as long as he continues to find these guys, they provide good depth. 

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Khalil Mack, Derek Carr, Amari Cooper, Gabe Jackson, Karl Joseph, Mario Edwards are all All Pro/ Pro Bowl Level players. The one first round player he missed on was Hayden , in a weak class. Conley looks like a real deal and could be become one of our better players.

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1 hour ago, Geezy said:

Khalil Mack, Derek Carr, Amari Cooper, Gabe Jackson, Karl Joseph, Mario Edwards are all All Pro/ Pro Bowl Level players. The one first round player he missed on was Hayden , in a weak class. Conley looks like a real deal and could be become one of our better players.

Ways to go for KJ and MEJ before we can start talking that mess. And Conley has played 20 snaps and her looks like the real deal? lol... we're getting way ahead of ourselves here.

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