Trubisky Not The Answer, Now What?

[JAF-N72EX]

21 hours ago, St Vince said:

Seriously you guy's need to stop with the nonsense. Trubisky is not a bad QB hes a rusty QB. That's what happens when you don't play in the preseason. Rodgers looked equally terrible. You guy's are putting the entire loss on Trubisky which isn't fair, he  didn't lose the game by himself. Your OL kept getting stupid holding calls which shot you in the foot. 

To get pushed back forty yards in penalties after great field position was unacceptable. Our punter won that game for us. He was the MVP. He flipped field position where you guys constantly had to go 80 yards which is a hard thing to do. Plus he didn't let Cohen or Patterson hurt us.  If this makes you feel better Trubisky is way ahead of Rodgers in his talent and development than Rodgers was in his 3rd year. Rodgers was horrible, he was so bad we drafted two QB's  after his Rookie year.

The Trubisky that was clutch in that playoff game is the real Trubisky. The one who got you in position to win that game.  You didn't lose the SB you lost one home game. Your defense will always keep you in games. Give the kid a break he's still learning the pro game he'll be a good QB, he showed me some good things in that playoff game. In my honest opinion and I'm not just saying this to  be a good sport and make you feel good,, this division is still yours to lose.  No GB fan should be pounding his chest, I'm happy we won but I don't think we really beat you  we were fortunate to steal a win and upset you.

You mean to tell me that it took a PACKERS FAN post to find some rational thought in the BEARS forum!?! 

[Epyon]

To be fair, Trubisky's problem right now is the same reason I didn't want him in the draft..... He panics.

You saw it in his bowl game with Solomon Thomas running wild, Trubisky will panic like a gazelle who sees a lion in the wild. It's not all the time, but it's often enough to be concerned about his mental toughness, because he needs to learn how to settle the hell down and play the game.

Tempo can also be a factor, and I'd like to see Helfrich try and incorporate more Oregon-esque up-tempo type plays into the scheme, in order to prevent Trubisky from having time to trip over his own brain. He seemed to get into a decent enough rhythm during the 2 min drill/hurry up offense, when he was getting rid of the ball too fast for a pass rush to make him panic. He seemingly needs more of that.. (I'd also add that we pretty criminally underutilized passes to the RBs as checkdown options in that game, which, should have been exact kind of underneath type passes that might have helped against the dime looks. Montgomery and Cohen in particular can/would/should have been absolutely deadly at making a single guy miss and chunking out 4-6 yards on a RB checkdown.)

There's flashes of brilliance to his game, but his panicked behavior is going to be incredibly difficult, if not impossible to beat out of him. It's a part of his basic personality and for lack of a better way to describe it, decidedly un-"alpha"behavior.... He's so damn concerned about what a defense is going to do to him when he sees danger, that he's completely forgetting to impose his will on them.... That attitude in his playstyle was why I heavily favored Mahomes in that draft class. Mahomes never had an ounce of that "please don't hurt me, sir" panic in his game as much as a blatant "I'm throwing this ball wherever the hell I want to to throw this ball and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it" type machismo.  Now such bravado can also obviously backfire, as was the case with Cutler just kind of throwing jump balls up (I'd argue Watson too falls into the negative side of that trait, even if it hasn't yet been backfiring horribly), but his turnover ratio was also basically at the same rate as Trubisky's while trying more difficult throws, and with significantly more experience.

At least that's how I see it.

[Pool]

Came across this video on another site. Pretty good breakdown and the unfortunate thing is we are still seeing a lot of the same tendencies in year 3 that is discussed in this video. Very discouraging. 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Pool said:

Came across this video on another site. Pretty good breakdown and the unfortunate thing is we are still seeing a lot of the same tendencies in year 3 that is discussed in this video. Very discouraging. 

People act like it is his 3rd game and not his 3rd year.

[soulman]

Back to a focus on Trubisky which is what this thread is all about.

The question I now have, and so should many others, is have Nagy and his staff been painfully honest with themselves about both his progression AND his limitations?  This is critical because we now know they haven't exactly been honest with Bears Fans about this.

I've begun to question whether or not they're deceiving themselves and just how deceived Ryan Pace is now as well.  He can't have been at all pleased with that showing on Thursday both by Mitch and just as importantly by Nagy and his staff.  Just how blinded are they?

Once again I'll state that Mitch's major issues are not physical or we would have seen that long ago.  He has above average athleticism and an NFL level arm.  He also appears to be fairly intelligent albeit maybe too much of a book learner whose lacking in basic QB instincts.

It seems to be the challenge now is if the kid is not destined to become another Aaron Rodger type of leader can they admit that to themselves and at the very least make him into an Alex Smith type QB who can win provided you keep him within his limitations?

IMHO Nagy needs to come back to earth and realize he may not be able to build his "scoring machine" around an inexperienced "operator" who simply lacks the skills or the instincts and/or confidence in himself to do the job correctly at least at present.

They surely have the defense they need to win enough games to compete for a title but if Nagy and Co. can't figure out a way to produce an offense and game plans that can consistently produce 24-30 points per game it's not gonna happen in the modern NFL.

We aren't gonna limit team to 10 points per game like great defenses could in the '70s or the '80s.  We led the league in 2018 allowing nearly 17 points per game and yet this offense has only scored more than 20 points in half it's games under Matt Nagy.

So, I see the problem as being more than just Mitch Trubisky.  I'm beginning to see a HC and his staff thinking way beyond where they are now in terms of the incubation of their offense.  Play to win not for show looks like at least one problem that needs fixing and that can only come from Nagy and Co.  Nagy needs to change his ways and become more Bill Belichick and less Cedric the Entertainer.

[abstract_thought]

QB is not a position where success is dictated by physical talent. If that were the case, nobody would know Tom Brady from a suburban real-estate agent.

Mitch's biggest problem is his inability to read defenses and make good decisions quickly. Unfortunately this is the single most important trait for QB success at the NFL level and I've rarely seen it develop over time.

[WindyCity]

Soul brings up a point that upsets me a little.

The organization was not honest at all about where Mitch was at. In fact based on the returns we have seen they flat out lied to us.

That sets Mitch and the fans up in an awkward situation as he fails to live up to what we were told.

[soulman]

7 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Soul brings up a point that upsets me a little.

The organization was not honest at all about where Mitch was at. In fact based on the returns we have seen they flat out lied to us.

That sets Mitch and the fans up in an awkward situation as he fails to live up to what we were told.

I'm not as certain that it's a lie as I believe it's some major self deception.

So far Mitch is like one of those actors who can memorize all of his lines perfectly and looks great during rehearsals but when the curtain comes up and it's a live audience out there all of a sudden he goes into brain freeze mode especially if what he's seeing isn't what he been coached to see or been preparing for.

Either he's lacking in the kind of instincts many of us have that immediately tell us how to improvise around a difficulty or he lacks the self confidence to depend on them.  He still too tethered to Nagy making decisions for him in the form of giving him the correct plays to run and that will never be the case 100% of the time.

Yeah the blocking stunk at times as did the play calling but he wouldn't be the only QB whose managed to pull a one score game out of the fire with some of his own creativity.....if he has any, and that is one huge problem from my perspective.  By now he should show more signs of an ability to improvise on the fly but he hasn't.

So far this kid is no Jim McMahon or even a Jay Cutler when it comes to an ability to manufacture something out of nothing and pray to God his security blanket ARob doesn't go down or we may have no passing offense at all.  That fixation alone will continue to spell trouble if he doesn't get off him and start throwing to others.

As it stand I no longer have any idea of what Mitch's ceiling might be.  His current limitations are like a fog bank covering it up.  Maybe it lifts or maybe it doesn't and all he can or will ever be isn't all that much more than he is now.  A system QB who can win behind a great defense but one who'll struggle to ever win big games against tougher teams.

[beardown3231]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Soul brings up a point that upsets me a little.

The organization was not honest at all about where Mitch was at. In fact based on the returns we have seen they flat out lied to us.

That sets Mitch and the fans up in an awkward situation as he fails to live up to what we were told.

ONE GAME. It's been ONE ******* GAME. You have no idea if what you said here is true or not. My goodness I may need to stay off of this board for awhile.

[Nads786]

6 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

ONE GAME. It's been ONE ******* GAME. You have no idea if what you said here is true or not. My goodness I may need to stay off of this board for awhile.

100% agreed. I'm pretty down on Mitch, but I wouldn't be surprised if he lights it up the next game. I recall a game to Baltimore where Cutler was TERRIBLE and you couldn't ever expect him to have a good game and the next he lit it up. Variation is totally normal. Let's evaluate his entire season before putting the nail in the coffin. 

I will go on record saying my expectations overall have been dramatically lowered. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Why is this game so crushing? It's not because they lost, it's because it was such a complete example of the worst case scenario for our team: transcendent defense, and an offense that is far less than the sum of it's part.  It's a familiar story.  We have spent 2 years enjoying the potential and flashes of Mitch, but also worrying about the inherent faults in his game. We had an offseason thinking about how experience and familiarity and new weaons would translate into results, and he displayed _every_ single fault that gives you sweats.  If you weren't wondering what the fix was at some point and realizing this team is tied to Trubisky for years with no way to draft a different QB in time to take advantage of the defense's short window, well, you were able to get more relief out of (8) beers than I was. 

Playcalling can adapt, but a QB that can't grow and has areas of his game that just aren't effective is not something you can overcome.

Now, it is still just one game, and it was also such a complete failure on offense that it nearly HAS to improve since every area was deficient, but damn if that wasn't a kick in the teeth.  If they have a great game Sunday, will you trust them? I won't,  we have to not only see wins and points but see Mitch be at least settled and competent before they get that.  

[beardown3231]

Didn't mean to post

Edited September 9, 2019 by beardown3231

[WindyCity]

 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Nads786 said:

100% agreed. I'm pretty down on Mitch, but I wouldn't be surprised if he lights it up the next game. I recall a game to Baltimore where Cutler was TERRIBLE and you couldn't ever expect him to have a good game and the next he lit it up. Variation is totally normal. Let's evaluate his entire season before putting the nail in the coffin. 

I will go on record saying my expectations overall have been dramatically lowered. 

The variation is the issue. No one is arguing that his good is not very good. It is the fact that there is too much bad/mediocre between the good.

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

ONE GAME. It's been ONE ******* GAME. You have no idea if what you said here is true or not. My goodness I may need to stay off of this board for awhile.

I agree with you that people are a bit quick to overreact after the first game that this team is doomed and Mitch is a bust.  Let's all step off the ledge a bit and see what happens going forward.

For as bad as Mitch played, the game plan Nagy and Helfrich put together was even worse.

The thing that struck me after the game when Nagy was pressed on not running the ball more he asked for a little slack from media and explained that a lot of the plays called were RPO's meaning Mitch had the option to hand the ball or pass based on the defense...So was he basically throwing Mitch under the bus here or am I reading into it too much?

I get the whole RPO thing but if you realized that these types of play calls weren't working well all game then why didn't you just call straight designed running plays instead of RPO's to try and get the offense in a better rhythm?   It's like they practiced that and only that all of the time leading up to the first game.  Talk about poor planning.  You always need to have a backup plan or be able to adjust on the fly in any given game and not just stick to a script of plays.